Zagreb away match thread

[Riotof91]

This is from football365.com. Apologies for the cut & paste but it simply sums up exactly how I (and I'm guessing a lot of others!) feel...

“I knew since I [found out] our schedule that I have a squad of 20 players, all experienced and every decision I make is very difficult,” said Wenger in pre-match press conference. “It is quite easy to change two or three players, more than it was in years before because they are all at a very good level.”

Ah, here we are again. So lovely too see you, take a seat. You’re right, this event is a little earlier than normal this year, but go with it.

Any Arsenal supporters filing out of the Stadion Maksimir on Wednesday night would be forgiven for shouting “f**k cohesion” at the empty stadium, continuing the fine tradition of football supporters screaming obscenities at inanimate objects. If this was Arsenal’s first step along the road to Champions League success, they tripped over their own lace and smashed their face on the gravel.

Arsenal are not losers because their Champions League campaign is in tatters (because it obviously isn’t), but due to the message this defeat sends out. If Arsene Wenger’s decision not to buy a single outfield player (the only club in Europe’s top five leagues, remember) was because he thought he had adequate cover in vital positions, he was wrong.

Individually, this squad is good enough. If all are fit and all are gelling together they are among the most capable sides in Europe. But that status quo is so rare that it barely bears mentioning. It’s something we’ve said before, and will no doubt say again: If this is the performance of the team which well be needed through the cold winter months, a title challenge looks a laughable prospect.

This has been a fortnight so utterly Arsenal that it may as well be christened Thierry Gunnersaurus Adams-Chapman. A silent deadline day was followed by serious injury to Danny Welbeck and another to Jack Wilshere, both suffering setbacks in their recoveries from existing knocks. On both occasions Wenger issued a ‘let’s wait and see’ message but, within days, three months was issued as the hopeful estimate for both. Then, on the first occasion Wenger was permitted to display Arsenal’s strength in depth, they fell woefully short.

Each one of Arsenal’s changes fell short in their bid to impress. Mathieu Debuchy has regressed badly from his Newcastle days, Mikel Arteta offered a dire impression of a holding midfielder and David Ospina looked like a rusty reserve goalkeeper. Olivier Giroud went one step further, missing a presentable chance before being sent off for two yellow cards even before half-time. To add a red bow to a night soaked in pure Arsenal, their inability to defend set pieces again reared its ugly head.

Unexpected failure is hard to take, but there is nothing as frustrating as predictable, and avoidable, downfall. Take one step back, respond impressively, fall short of top spot, get knocked out in the last-16 – it’s Arsenal’s Champions League Groundhog Season. Supporters used to worry that they would never achieve European glory with Wenger in charge. Now even the quarter-finals seem a distant dream.

Wenger this week aimed to curb expectation on Arsenal’s chances in this competition, urging realism through the poetic insistence that “We are not dreamers”. Here’s a list of clubs to have reached the last eight since Arsenal did: Shakhtar Donetsk, Tottenham, Schalke, Internazionale, APOEL Nicosia, Marseille, Benfica, Milan, Malaga, Dortmund, Galatasaray, Atletico Madrid, Porto and Monaco. In this competition, Arsenal have not just been overtaken by the best, but the rest too. And that’s not a dream.

The manager will stress that this is just one defeat, neither catastrophic nor indicative of a terminal decline. Wenger is right on that point, but there now follows a run of games which will truly test Arsenal’s credentials, and put their summer inaction into a more relevant context. Chelsea (a), Spurs (a), Leicester (a), Olympiacos (h), Manchester United (h). Gulp.

I'll be honest i've never looked closely at it this way before but the list of teams listed there is shocking.

There's not one team on that list i'd ever have rated as better than us over the last 10 years if asked except maybe Dortmund.

It show's how arrogant i'd become as an Arsenal supporter after our years of success in the 90's and early 2000's.

Me either but, fuck me, that is BAD. Unbelievable that there are still so many 'fans' who think *word censored* is irreplaceable.

[Riotof91]

This is from football365.com. Apologies for the cut & paste but it simply sums up exactly how I (and I'm guessing a lot of others!) feel...

“I knew since I [found out] our schedule that I have a squad of 20 players, all experienced and every decision I make is very difficult,” said Wenger in pre-match press conference. “It is quite easy to change two or three players, more than it was in years before because they are all at a very good level.”

Ah, here we are again. So lovely too see you, take a seat. You’re right, this event is a little earlier than normal this year, but go with it.

Any Arsenal supporters filing out of the Stadion Maksimir on Wednesday night would be forgiven for shouting “f**k cohesion” at the empty stadium, continuing the fine tradition of football supporters screaming obscenities at inanimate objects. If this was Arsenal’s first step along the road to Champions League success, they tripped over their own lace and smashed their face on the gravel.

Arsenal are not losers because their Champions League campaign is in tatters (because it obviously isn’t), but due to the message this defeat sends out. If Arsene Wenger’s decision not to buy a single outfield player (the only club in Europe’s top five leagues, remember) was because he thought he had adequate cover in vital positions, he was wrong.

Individually, this squad is good enough. If all are fit and all are gelling together they are among the most capable sides in Europe. But that status quo is so rare that it barely bears mentioning. It’s something we’ve said before, and will no doubt say again: If this is the performance of the team which well be needed through the cold winter months, a title challenge looks a laughable prospect.

This has been a fortnight so utterly Arsenal that it may as well be christened Thierry Gunnersaurus Adams-Chapman. A silent deadline day was followed by serious injury to Danny Welbeck and another to Jack Wilshere, both suffering setbacks in their recoveries from existing knocks. On both occasions Wenger issued a ‘let’s wait and see’ message but, within days, three months was issued as the hopeful estimate for both. Then, on the first occasion Wenger was permitted to display Arsenal’s strength in depth, they fell woefully short.

Each one of Arsenal’s changes fell short in their bid to impress. Mathieu Debuchy has regressed badly from his Newcastle days, Mikel Arteta offered a dire impression of a holding midfielder and David Ospina looked like a rusty reserve goalkeeper. Olivier Giroud went one step further, missing a presentable chance before being sent off for two yellow cards even before half-time. To add a red bow to a night soaked in pure Arsenal, their inability to defend set pieces again reared its ugly head.

Unexpected failure is hard to take, but there is nothing as frustrating as predictable, and avoidable, downfall. Take one step back, respond impressively, fall short of top spot, get knocked out in the last-16 – it’s Arsenal’s Champions League Groundhog Season. Supporters used to worry that they would never achieve European glory with Wenger in charge. Now even the quarter-finals seem a distant dream.

Wenger this week aimed to curb expectation on Arsenal’s chances in this competition, urging realism through the poetic insistence that “We are not dreamers”. Here’s a list of clubs to have reached the last eight since Arsenal did: Shakhtar Donetsk, Tottenham, Schalke, Internazionale, APOEL Nicosia, Marseille, Benfica, Milan, Malaga, Dortmund, Galatasaray, Atletico Madrid, Porto and Monaco. In this competition, Arsenal have not just been overtaken by the best, but the rest too. And that’s not a dream.

The manager will stress that this is just one defeat, neither catastrophic nor indicative of a terminal decline. Wenger is right on that point, but there now follows a run of games which will truly test Arsenal’s credentials, and put their summer inaction into a more relevant context. Chelsea (a), Spurs (a), Leicester (a), Olympiacos (h), Manchester United (h). Gulp.

I'll be honest i've never looked closely at it this way before but the list of teams listed there is shocking.

There's not one team on that list i'd ever have rated as better than us over the last 10 years if asked except maybe Dortmund.

It show's how arrogant i'd become as an Arsenal supporter after our years of success in the 90's and early 2000's.

Me either but, fuck me, that is BAD. Unbelievable that there are still so many 'fans' who think *word censored* is irreplaceable.

[Bradywasking]

My mate is an Arsenal fan, not a superfan, not necessarily pro Wenger just an ordinary fan. 99% of times when Arsenal play and lose like they did in Zagreb he blames the referee. (1) Red card harsh (2) Their first goal offside etc etc. There is no accountability placed on the manager and his lack of tactical intelligence or his arrogance in team selection. That is not done as a defence of Wenger but rather a belief that Arsenal , on a level and fair playing field , are capable of winning the Premier League and Champions League. When you watch the inept play of Wednesday allied with , for example the stupidity of Giroud and Campbell (who was lucky not to get a second yellow) , you wonder where this blind loyalty to the club and players comes from.
The argument of the AKBs against the WOB is only half the story , there is a third element, the passive people who believe in Arsenal FC regardless of who is playing or managing. The same people have the same level of expectation of this group of players as they had of the 2002-04 crop. That is illogical given the personnel involved. When my mate says "there is no reason why Arsenal cannot win the Ch League /Premier League" he says so out of a belief we can because Arsenal are the biggest and best club , our chances only restricted by biased officials and corrupt powers. That view is deluded but neither pro or anti Wenger. There in lies a problem, the belief that all will be right and if it isn't then the blame lies elsewhere.

[northbank123]

Everybody is blinded by loyalty and passion to an extent mate but when you are ignoring all of the contrary evidence than frankly you are pro-Wenger by omission. It's long since reached the point where there is no longer a sliding scale but a dichotomy when it comes to our manager. If he thinks that Wenger should continue then he is pro-Wenger.

Heard Joel Campbell came on and was at his brainless ineffective best. Never have I seen a player find so many blind alleys to run down. In his defence he doesn't look like a winger but he's straight out of the Carlos Vela school of floating on the periphery of games and frustrating everyone.

[DB10GOONER]

Everybody is blinded by loyalty and passion to an extent mate but when you are ignoring all of the contrary evidence than frankly you are pro-Wenger by omission. It's long since reached the point where there is no longer a sliding scale but a dichotomy when it comes to our manager. If he thinks that Wenger should continue then he is pro-Wenger.

Heard Joel Campbell came on and was at his brainless ineffective best. Never have I seen a player find so many blind alleys to run down. In his defence he doesn't look like a winger but he's straight out of the Carlos Vela school of floating on the periphery of games and frustrating everyone.

He was shit, on a night when so many were shit, but he was shit and stupid. With Giroudzema having already gotten himself stupidly sent off, Campbell did his absolute best to join him. Stupid cynical foul after stupid cynical foul - nothing dangerous, just stupid. But worse than the risk of getting sent off was the fact he killed our attacking momentum because the ref blew for every one of them. With minutes to go Campbell was effectively wasting time FOR Zagreb. An absolute buffoon.

[arseofacrow]

What the fuck is Joel Campbell?

[Bradywasking]

Joel Campbell was as brainless as any of his illustrious predecessors like Gervinho. The fouling near the end was unbelievable, as said earlier nothing leg breaking but pure stupid. How he didn't get a second yellow was beyond me.

[wibble]

What the fuck is Joel Campbell?

An internal solution!




Which begs the question what the problem is!

[sauberlime]

For sure, he's is not aware about it as well.

[wilko49er]

So one of their players (Ademi) who played the full 90 minutes has failed a doping test after the match? The player will face disciplinary if his b test is positive. Go on Wenger! clutch at straws, put in a protest about doping and get the result overturned
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/34471565

[gp543]

So one of their players (Ademi) who played the full 90 minutes has failed a doping test after the match? The player will face disciplinary if his b test is positive. Go on Wenger! clutch at straws, put in a protest about doping and get the result overturned
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/34471565

Apparently, it has be two players testing positive to overturn the result.

[sauberlime]

I think they already know this coming. It's just a matter of time.

[HARLOW GOONER]

So one of their players (Ademi) who played the full 90 minutes has failed a doping test after the match? The player will face disciplinary if his b test is positive. Go on Wenger! clutch at straws, put in a protest about doping and get the result overturned
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/34471565

Apparently, it has be two players testing positive to overturn the result.

And (someone) correct me if I'm wrong, it's the player(s) that get punished/penalised, not the club (Zagreb). Waste of time pursuing it. We lost the game. End of.