'Pool bid for barry

[26may1989]

Seems to me this is THE test case for Arsenal.

If we really do have money to spend, if the club really does have the ambition to keep players like Fabregas (rather than fattening them up for a huge transfer fee), if we really are serious about chasing the coat tails of Chelsea and Man Utd then...we have to at least keep pace with the likes of Liverpool.

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't we 7 points ahead of Liverpool? And that's the low-point of our league season, they've been out of the race for months. And that's despite the fact that they spent a lot more than us last summer.

I, like most, would be a lot more patient with Arsenal if they came out and stated that they just do not have the money to sign top class players but then if they said that then Fabregas would definitely be off (well, what would you do?) along with Hleb, Sagna, Clichy and Toure.

Edelman didn't need to allow the idea that Wenger had £70m to spend on transfer fees to do the rounds without correction, but coming out now and saying the club don't have the money would be a pretty good way of driving our best players out.

"I will not buy players unless they are better than the ones I already have" - famous words and look where we were heading then.

Um, we appear already to have 9 more points after 36 games than we had after 38 last year, and may well finish on 84 points, a total that would have won the league in most seasons. We seem to be heading in the right direction, even without serious funds.

I'm not sure the price matters (well, without being stupid about it).

It's the intent it shows...especially to any player unsure where his future is (particularly Fabregas).

£15m?

Well, that is a lot of money for a, I would say, 7 out of 10 player.

But I thought the whole point of moving out of Highbury ( ) was that we COULD compete in the silly money stakes.

Barry is a fine player (wouldn't say a world beater but pretty useful nevertheless) in a position that, along with central defence, we have almost no cover for. If Flamini is to leave then to let someone of Barry's calibre slip the net (for players of his level do not come around too often) is wasteful to the point of negligent.

So your logic is we need to start spending "silly money" on a player who rates just 7 out of 10 and isn't a world beater, else Cesc is going to leave? I don't see it - we need to buy good players, and if Wenger reckons Barry fits the bill, great, but why should he spend silly money on players he doesn't rate? To assuage impatient Arsenal fans like you?? Of course the team would be stronger if we could buy players like Torres and Ribery, who would have been ideally suited, but Wenger doesn't have the money yet (it'll come). We need to show some patience. And we definitely don't need to go round spending money for the sake of it - that's just the Spurs way.

And he's English.

We definitely need some more of those qualities.

Nope, just good players.

[Magic Hat]

Gus:

So Barry is better then Carrick as is Jenas? He wouldn't have got in had Hargreves been fit, he did well against sides that we pinned back at home and where the whole team did well. Slight problem is he offered us nothing going forward or defensively when we played in Moscow, against Croatia or against France

would really have helped had he helped shield our defence in Moscow or against Croatia, it really would have

[gus ceasar is a legend]

I wouldn't say that Flamini offers us that much going forward.........please don't point out a one off strike against Newcastle!

What has Gilberto genuinely offered us going forward?

I suggest that a genuine defensive shield would allow Cesc to express himself even more so than he has this season!

Fuck me Magic Hat you love every other player in the world yet I like someone and you ahev to make a weak-willed arguement out of it!

[Magic Hat]

They do offer us something defensively, or did in Gilberto's case whereas Barry didn't. I do agree we need a dm though, just not Barry

I thought we agreed on Song and Almunia?

[donkeywinsthe derby]

OK - Just had a few beers, now back to the thread.

To pick up on some of the counterpoints raised by 26th May.

Some of your points of view are valid but two things I would take issue/debate with you...

1. "Assuage impatient fans like you (me)"

No, I'm not impatient. Just realistic. I guess it depends on the glass half full/half empty view. If you warped from the beginning of this season to now then you would say that we've done very well. BUT...that's nearly all down to Wenger. What COULD we have done had we had the money (or the wherewithall) to spend? Personally I don't really give a fuck about European competitions - the league is where we're at. And it was very frustrating to see us more or less give it to Chelsea/Man Utd.

And don't use Tottenham as an example of buying players for the sake of it...I'm trying to have a sensible discussion about a team with a realistic chance of winning the league - not that bunch of no hope tossers.

Barry may not be THE answer...but we can't keep selling our best players or seeing them walk away/retire (as we have been doing over the past 5 years) without replacing them with at least SOME established and experienced guys and continue to be as successful as we all want.

2. I know I'm going to get strung up for this, but we SHOULD field more English players. We are THE quintessential English club, playing in the capital of England, in the English premier league.

That's not to say that if we can attract them, and if they're good enough, we shouldn't play some, even a majority, of foreigners. The two best players I have ever see play for Arsenal - Bergkamp and Henry (actually, Henry was probably the best player I have seen play for any club in the world, ever) - were not English. But to regularly play with NO Englishmen is not right. Especially when they are available. I know why we don't - money and attitude - but, in my opinion, enough is enough.

Finally, having said all that, I will bow to you on the fact that Wenger's opinion is the one that matters most and that if he doesn't think Barry (or anyone else) is right for the club then so be it. I just hope it isn't based on money because other players will see this as a failure to invest for the present and decide to jump ship (Flamini for one).

Because that would be a huge failure on Arsenal's management and one for which Wenger would unfairly carry the can.

Which would be far worse than all the other points put together.

[Magic Hat]

How many have we lost that we regret? Flamini maybe, Edu for squad depth, Pires definitely and that is about it really for me. Yes we do need to spend money to compete as quite obviously this squad alone will be enough but depends how much money we have to how much we can spend. The players will want to see us spend but they won't be expecting massive, we are not that far behind and just need tweaking in defensive area's.

Man U have the debt, Chelsea meanwhile have internal problems and if Grant is kept, he will want to reform his squad. They will many players leaving as well as players coming in, they will see a club making drstatic changes while they know we only need to evolve.

Let's see, we have six English players in the squad next season. We have tons of young English players coming though, we are producing players who will do and already have at youth level, done their country a great service. Why buy players just because of their passport?