As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
armchair wrote:Di-Matteo has won the CL. Wenger hasnt. Di-Matteo has had one shot at it, Wengers had what, 17 attempts? Id say give Di-Matteo 17 attempts at it and he'd do better than fukin zero wins....
That pic doesnt prove Di-Matteo is "elite" It does prove that Wenger is not though. Hes a big fat CL failure.
Thats bollox, its all about the players at the end of the day
armchair wrote:
You just cant compare managers and players mate. Your example is ridiculous.
George Best never won the World Cup but he is widely recognised as in the top 5 best players of all time. And yes DB10, an all time great never won the CL.
The pic proves that Wenger after 17 fukin attempts has failed miserably. The pic shows that Wenger is a failure not that the others are "elite"
Arsenal, despite my bias, are not an elite club. Winning the CL would be amazing but unless we overhaul the way we operate, we'll have to get lucky if we're going to win the CL.
I'm sorry, but if you don't think we're an elite club and aren't capable of ever winning the champions league, then why do you give Wenger such a hard time for not winning titles etc against the likes of Man Utd, Chelsea who have won it??
armchair wrote:
You just cant compare managers and players mate. Your example is ridiculous.
George Best never won the World Cup but he is widely recognised as in the top 5 best players of all time. And yes DB10, an all time great never won the CL.
The pic proves that Wenger after 17 fukin attempts has failed miserably. The pic shows that Wenger is a failure not that the others are "elite"
Arsenal, despite my bias, are not an elite club. Winning the CL would be amazing but unless we overhaul the way we operate, we'll have to get lucky if we're going to win the CL.
I'm sorry, but if you don't think we're an elite club and aren't capable of ever winning the champions league, then why do you give Wenger such a hard time for not winning titles etc against the likes of Man Utd, Chelsea who have won it??
Perhaps because the club, gleefully lead by its manager, moved us in order to compete with Europe's elite - not our words, theirs. He doesn't seem to mind pulling one of Europe's elite salaries either
armchair wrote:
You just cant compare managers and players mate. Your example is ridiculous.
George Best never won the World Cup but he is widely recognised as in the top 5 best players of all time. And yes DB10, an all time great never won the CL.
The pic proves that Wenger after 17 fukin attempts has failed miserably. The pic shows that Wenger is a failure not that the others are "elite"
Arsenal, despite my bias, are not an elite club. Winning the CL would be amazing but unless we overhaul the way we operate, we'll have to get lucky if we're going to win the CL.
I'm sorry, but if you don't think we're an elite club and aren't capable of ever winning the champions league, then why do you give Wenger such a hard time for not winning titles etc against the likes of Man Utd, Chelsea who have won it??
Perhaps because the club, gleefully lead by its manager, moved us in order to compete with Europe's elite - not our words, theirs. He doesn't seem to mind pulling one of Europe's elite salaries either
Simple truth is we don't have the pulling power to attract the Top players.....Ronaldo, Messi, Lewandowski , Muller.... etc...etc
Players win cups and titles not managers who desperately try to up there stake to justify there enormous salaries
g88ner wrote:
Walcott , in raptures after the game, was saying neither Zenit, Barca, Real, Wolfsburg..... would not want to draw us after witnessing that performance. That's how deep the delusions run at the club.
I think he's right.
Why would Real, Zenit, etc. want to draw Arsenal instead of Gent, Roma, Benfica, PSV or Kiev?
I know we're not the greatest of teams but we're not as shite as some people like to make out.[/quote]
I think that we are a very Jekyll and Hyde team. You don't know which team will turn up, but looking at those other teams in the draw, there aren't many teams on there who you would make Bayern or Barcelona think that there is a potential banana skin. Those two teams have to be considered the favorites.
Ikechukwu1 wrote:
Arsenal have the resources to win the CL, so the money excuse won't wash. Not when you're getting thumped by Monaco, Deportivo, Valencia and PSV in the knockouts
The CL is not down to money and having the best players or Real Madrid's record would be better than 1 CL in the past 10 years!
Jose Mourinho won the CL with Porto, a team that knocked out much richer teams. When he did it again with Inter, they were 9th favourites to win it that year.
I agree with this point. It is about finding the right balance and team ethos. That can only be done from a very good manager who can get all of the players to buy into his tactical acumen.
Arsenal do have the resources to do this, but Wenger has failed not only in his recruitment (really non recruitment) but also in his tactical approach.
His loyalty to a core of injury prone players will be his undoing this year. It is like the loyalty that he showed to Diaby has been multiplied by 6 now. This year, he really needed to be ruthless with some players and show them the door, but he didn't. Having an injury prone player as your club Captain is an apt representation of Arsenal this year.
armchair wrote:Di-Matteo has won the CL. Wenger hasnt. Di-Matteo has had one shot at it, Wengers had what, 17 attempts? Id say give Di-Matteo 17 attempts at it and he'd do better than fukin zero wins....
That pic doesnt prove Di-Matteo is "elite" It does prove that Wenger is not though. Hes a big fat CL failure.
Thats bollox, its all about the players at the end of the day
17 different squads with fuck knows how many players over a period of 17 seasons. Only one manager though.
But yes, yes you're right its down to the players.
armchair wrote:Di-Matteo has won the CL. Wenger hasnt. Di-Matteo has had one shot at it, Wengers had what, 17 attempts? Id say give Di-Matteo 17 attempts at it and he'd do better than fukin zero wins....
That pic doesnt prove Di-Matteo is "elite" It does prove that Wenger is not though. Hes a big fat CL failure.
Thats bollox, its all about the players at the end of the day
You having a laff ?? Ever hear about a thing called tactics ? Any opposition manager worth his salt can tie le cock up in knots tactically, and when that happens and le cock cant light a fire under his players, it leads to the inevitable defeats against all those shit clubs that pick us off at such regularity
Tactics is what helped the chavs beat barca in the champs league - no sane person could claim that the chav players were better than barca's, but they knew that clogging up the middle would force barca wide and they neither had the wingers or centre forwards to play that way. That is tactics my good man
Btw this "all about the players" nonsense also comes back to the door of the manager who has bought, trained (and I use that word loosely ) and remained loyal to a sub-standard group for too long
Beyond his lack of tactical awareness and inability to counter opposing teams strengths i honestly believe AW's biggest failing is lack of ruthlessness when it comes to getting shot of below par or injury prone players.
This has consistently led to us being burdened with players who are not good enough or not fit to play often enough. This has also meant a bloating of the wage bill which could have been much better employed by a more ruthless manager to entice better players in or keep players seeking better deals elsewhere.
armchair wrote:Di-Matteo has won the CL. Wenger hasnt. Di-Matteo has had one shot at it, Wengers had what, 17 attempts? Id say give Di-Matteo 17 attempts at it and he'd do better than fukin zero wins....
That pic doesnt prove Di-Matteo is "elite" It does prove that Wenger is not though. Hes a big fat CL failure.
Thats bollox, its all about the players at the end of the day
17 different squads with fuck knows how many players over a period of 17 seasons. Only one manager though.
But yes, yes you're right its down to the players.
If it's "all about the players" why bother even having a manager then?
Oh. Thought not.
GoonerMuzz wrote:Beyond his lack of tactical awareness and inability to counter opposing teams strengths i honestly believe AW's biggest failing is lack of ruthlessness when it comes to getting shot of below par or injury prone players.
This has consistently led to us being burdened with players who are not good enough or not fit to play often enough. This has also meant a bloating of the wage bill which could have been much better employed by a more ruthless manager to entice better players in or keep players seeking better deals elsewhere.
Absolutely. Which is why I used to laugh when I would hear Dixon or Winterburn come out with their "if these players don't start delivering, I can see Arsene ripping this squad apart and starting again". LOL. Yeah right.
Actually I think you'll find, it usually leads to a shiny new contract. See Arteta and Rosicky and numerous others...
The latest fallacy is the mighty Joel Campbell. Yet another player who amazing Arsene "always knew was super quality". Just like Coquelin. I assume that's why he spent the summer trying to flog him to Palermo, only for them to refuse to pay £6m
armchair wrote:Di-Matteo has won the CL. Wenger hasnt. Di-Matteo has had one shot at it, Wengers had what, 17 attempts? Id say give Di-Matteo 17 attempts at it and he'd do better than fukin zero wins....
That pic doesnt prove Di-Matteo is "elite" It does prove that Wenger is not though. Hes a big fat CL failure.
Thats bollox, its all about the players at the end of the day
17 different squads with fuck knows how many players over a period of 17 seasons. Only one manager though.
But yes, yes you're right its down to the players.
Yes thats because Wenger does not know what he is doing, the squad we have is not capable of winning the Champions league
And we cannot attract the top level players that deliver these trophies, not about money but think ambition/Wenger is the issue
GoonerMuzz wrote:Beyond his lack of tactical awareness and inability to counter opposing teams strengths i honestly believe AW's biggest failing is lack of ruthlessness when it comes to getting shot of below par or injury prone players.
This has consistently led to us being burdened with players who are not good enough or not fit to play often enough. This has also meant a bloating of the wage bill which could have been much better employed by a more ruthless manager to entice better players in or keep players seeking better deals elsewhere.
Absolutely. Which is why I used to laugh when I would hear Dixon or Winterburn come out with their "if these players don't start delivering, I can see Arsene ripping this squad apart and starting again". LOL. Yeah right.
Actually I think you'll find, it usually leads to a shiny new contract. See Arteta and Rosicky and numerous others...
The latest fallacy is the mighty Joel Campbell. Yet another player who amazing Arsene "always knew was super quality". Just like Coquelin. I assume that's why he spent the summer trying to flog him to Palermo, only for them to refuse to pay £6m
His mis placed loyalty to players is well catalogued and has cost us dear, he runs the club totally at his own will, ignoring what is necessary to get results, such as promising players to play in certain competitions...WTF is that all about??
armchair wrote:Di-Matteo has won the CL. Wenger hasnt. Di-Matteo has had one shot at it, Wengers had what, 17 attempts? Id say give Di-Matteo 17 attempts at it and he'd do better than fukin zero wins....
That pic doesnt prove Di-Matteo is "elite" It does prove that Wenger is not though. Hes a big fat CL failure.
Thats bollox, its all about the players at the end of the day
17 different squads with fuck knows how many players over a period of 17 seasons. Only one manager though. But yes, yes you're right its down to the players.
I think a patronising eye roll when someone suggests the performance of a team sport is ultimately down to the players is a tad harsh mate because ultimately it is. Yes the manager buys the players, trains them and sends them out to play under his instructions but it's still down to the discipline, talent and decisions made by the players.
We all know the manager has a huge role to play in a teams success but clearly so do the players.
I think we need to be more tolerant of people's views on this forum and stop taking a naturally dismissive view of quite reasonable comments and perhaps try and understand what they mean.
- you did the same to me last night. You criticised my comments so I replied with a better explanation that I thought would help. Your response to that was just rude
armchair wrote:Di-Matteo has won the CL. Wenger hasnt. Di-Matteo has had one shot at it, Wengers had what, 17 attempts? Id say give Di-Matteo 17 attempts at it and he'd do better than fukin zero wins....
That pic doesnt prove Di-Matteo is "elite" It does prove that Wenger is not though. Hes a big fat CL failure.
Thats bollox, its all about the players at the end of the day
You having a laff ?? Ever hear about a thing called tactics ? Any opposition manager worth his salt can tie le cock up in knots tactically, and when that happens and le cock cant light a fire under his players, it leads to the inevitable defeats against all those shit clubs that pick us off at such regularity
Tactics is what helped the chavs beat barca in the champs league - no sane person could claim that the chav players were better than barca's, but they knew that clogging up the middle would force barca wide and they neither had the wingers or centre forwards to play that way. That is tactics my good man
Btw this "all about the players" nonsense also comes back to the door of the manager who has bought, trained (and I use that word loosely ) and remained loyal to a sub-standard group for too long
Yes we know all that, been saying the same about Wenger now for ages
Tactically naive...etc..too many mistakes to catalogue....
All about the players at the end of the day, once they cross that line onto the pitch they are the ones that have to deliver
Mangers are often raved about for a couple of seasons then find themselves sacked....of course there are great exceptions to that statement, Shankly, Clough, mangers that come into a lower league side and build them up into something special
Not just pin balling around between Real Madrid, Bayern and Barcelona
Ever hear about a thing called tactics ? Any opposition manager worth his salt can tie le cock up in knots tactically, and when that happens and le cock cant light a fire under his players, it leads to the inevitable defeats against all those shit clubs that pick us off at such regularity 
