Arsenal's "British core"
Arsenal's "British core"
Remember the much-hyped "British core" that Wenger launched as his latest "project" in 2013? There was that hubristic picture of them standing with their arms around each other, staring at that giant banner of themselves (like something out of a tinpot banana republic, where you see symbols of the rulers everywhere). Long-term contracts were given out, naturally. Well here's that list of players in full:
Carl Jenkinson - on loan at West Ham and seems unlikely to get back ahead of Bellerin (or Chambers) in the pecking order.
Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain - running around like a headless chicken, still waiting for his breakthrough season when he suddenly becomes a world-class player.
Jack Wilshere - perennial crock and you have to wonder if he'll ever fulfill his potential
Theo Walcott - see 'Oxlade-Chamberlain, Alex', the only thing to add is that Walcott has been around for TEN years
Aaron Ramsey - the best of the bunch but is that really saying much? Still nowhere near the form he showed early on in 2013-14 and question marks over his tactical awareness and discipline
Kieran Gibbs - has been kept out of the team by Nacho Monreal and nobody has even noticed
Since then we've added:
Calum Chambers - Might get more chances chance if Jenkinson and Debuchy don't come back but would you trust him to develop as a quality defender with Wenger coaching him?
Danny Welbeck - Has been injured for months, so he has fitted into "the Arsenal way"
I could be proved wrong but at the moment it looks to me like "the British core" is shaping up to be yet another vanity project from the self-styled "best developer of young talent" that is launched amidst great fanfare but delivers little or nothing.
Carl Jenkinson - on loan at West Ham and seems unlikely to get back ahead of Bellerin (or Chambers) in the pecking order.
Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain - running around like a headless chicken, still waiting for his breakthrough season when he suddenly becomes a world-class player.
Jack Wilshere - perennial crock and you have to wonder if he'll ever fulfill his potential
Theo Walcott - see 'Oxlade-Chamberlain, Alex', the only thing to add is that Walcott has been around for TEN years
Aaron Ramsey - the best of the bunch but is that really saying much? Still nowhere near the form he showed early on in 2013-14 and question marks over his tactical awareness and discipline
Kieran Gibbs - has been kept out of the team by Nacho Monreal and nobody has even noticed
Since then we've added:
Calum Chambers - Might get more chances chance if Jenkinson and Debuchy don't come back but would you trust him to develop as a quality defender with Wenger coaching him?
Danny Welbeck - Has been injured for months, so he has fitted into "the Arsenal way"
I could be proved wrong but at the moment it looks to me like "the British core" is shaping up to be yet another vanity project from the self-styled "best developer of young talent" that is launched amidst great fanfare but delivers little or nothing.
Re: Arsenal's "British core"
It's turning out to be almost as much of a failure as Project Youth
It is a shame though. I do like having British players in the team, but they've all turned a bit crap under The Old Fraud
It is a shame though. I do like having British players in the team, but they've all turned a bit crap under The Old Fraud
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Re: Arsenal's "British core"
Ramsey is decent, but should be attacking midfield, not defensive. Willing to give Chambers, Jenkinson, Welbeck and the Ox more time. Gibbs is a decent enough back up. Wilshere can have one more season to see if he can play fully injury-free. Walcott can totally fuck off.
Re: Arsenal's "British core"
When you look at where all of them are in their careers right now, the conclusion has to be that its a massively disappointing list of under-achievers
I hear much about how Ramsey has turned out but we bought the guy 7 years ago and for me, he has had 1 really good season and a collection of very inconsistent ones. Wally has had his moments, usually when pursuing a new contract, but over a 10 year period he has failed to live up to the hype more often than not. Gibbs has had moments of promise but now seems to be used Traore style these days as neither a defender or a winger - just some bits and pieces player that runs up and down the flank and gets injured a lot.
I still believe JW10 is worth sticking with and could yet go on and be a great player for the club, but if in TO1AW's mind that is as a CDM then forget it. The Ox has been woefully mismanaged and it has resulted in an unhappy player who knows no matter how he plays he'll never get in the team on a regular basis - 2 or 3 years ago he was outstanding at times, but TO1AW would favour shoving someone like Ramsey or the Forehead out there instead and the result now is that we have a player with zero confidence who has hit rock bottom in terms of form
Chambers has again been woefully mismanaged and I bet he still has nightmares about that day at Swansea or last New Year's Day when our tactical genius threw him to the wolves against his former team (who were flying at the time) and played him as a CDM
I hear much about how Ramsey has turned out but we bought the guy 7 years ago and for me, he has had 1 really good season and a collection of very inconsistent ones. Wally has had his moments, usually when pursuing a new contract, but over a 10 year period he has failed to live up to the hype more often than not. Gibbs has had moments of promise but now seems to be used Traore style these days as neither a defender or a winger - just some bits and pieces player that runs up and down the flank and gets injured a lot.
I still believe JW10 is worth sticking with and could yet go on and be a great player for the club, but if in TO1AW's mind that is as a CDM then forget it. The Ox has been woefully mismanaged and it has resulted in an unhappy player who knows no matter how he plays he'll never get in the team on a regular basis - 2 or 3 years ago he was outstanding at times, but TO1AW would favour shoving someone like Ramsey or the Forehead out there instead and the result now is that we have a player with zero confidence who has hit rock bottom in terms of form
Chambers has again been woefully mismanaged and I bet he still has nightmares about that day at Swansea or last New Year's Day when our tactical genius threw him to the wolves against his former team (who were flying at the time) and played him as a CDM
- northbank123
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Re: Arsenal's "British core"
Ramsey has had one great season and four big contract renewals. Unless he starts finding his scoring boots again the guy is never going to be more than a squad option at CM and in that context we've got a pretty middling return on our investment of time and wages. And that's coming from a Ramsey fan.
Wilshere is a sad case because the guy was genuinely tremendous when he broke through - before you even consider his age. But the guy hasn't stayed fit at all for the last half a decade and having had lessons with Diaby and Rosicky in my book we just have to accept that his body cannot stand up to the rigours of professional football. It's the same pattern - ankle/knee/foot/hamstring injury, long lay-off, setback after setback, new injury and then finally fit for a few sub appearances before the next one. I don't really buy that these injuries are largely self-inflicted because he dribbles into trouble because there are plenty of players who charge around midfields and survive the same.
They are probably soaking up not far off half a million a week between them.
Wilshere is a sad case because the guy was genuinely tremendous when he broke through - before you even consider his age. But the guy hasn't stayed fit at all for the last half a decade and having had lessons with Diaby and Rosicky in my book we just have to accept that his body cannot stand up to the rigours of professional football. It's the same pattern - ankle/knee/foot/hamstring injury, long lay-off, setback after setback, new injury and then finally fit for a few sub appearances before the next one. I don't really buy that these injuries are largely self-inflicted because he dribbles into trouble because there are plenty of players who charge around midfields and survive the same.
They are probably soaking up not far off half a million a week between them.
- DB10GOONER
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Re: Arsenal's "British core"
I know it shouldn't really matter where a player comes from and Lord knows being Oirish I shouldn't care, but I just think an Ingerlish/British club should have at least a core (if not a majority) of their players from Ingerland/Britain, same as a Spanish club should have a core of Spanish players.
We've had this discussion on here numerous times and I hold with the theory that the British grass roots youth training system is poor and needs to be revised as the general quality of young British players coming through is poor, with the odd exception.
Also, these kids that come through have a couple of good games at 17, 18 or 19 years old and get put on mega-contracts that make them millionaires by 20. This is ridiculous and kills the motivation of so many of them as they think "I've made it because I is rich init."
Put the pampered lazy little fuckers back to cleaning the boots of the senior players and wage cap them at £1000 a week until they hit 23.
Sorted.
We've had this discussion on here numerous times and I hold with the theory that the British grass roots youth training system is poor and needs to be revised as the general quality of young British players coming through is poor, with the odd exception.
Also, these kids that come through have a couple of good games at 17, 18 or 19 years old and get put on mega-contracts that make them millionaires by 20. This is ridiculous and kills the motivation of so many of them as they think "I've made it because I is rich init."
Put the pampered lazy little fuckers back to cleaning the boots of the senior players and wage cap them at £1000 a week until they hit 23.
Sorted.
Re: Arsenal's "British core"
I think this is the biggest problem actually mate. Some of the academies that we run over here these days are as good as any in the world and we have some excellent young coaches emerging too. The problem is the mega contracts, which start with parents being wooed when kids haven't even reached their teenage years and the first sign of success....along comes a 20k per week contract. Look at John Stones - honest to god I can't believe this guy is now being touted as a £60m footballer - bang average at best - and if he does go to Madrid or the like he will be a 100% flop.....but why should he worry, he'll be made up within a yearDB10GOONER wrote:I know it shouldn't really matter where a player comes from and Lord knows being Oirish I shouldn't care, but I just think an Ingerlish/British club should have at least a core (if not a majority) of their players from Ingerland/Britain, same as a Spanish club should have a core of Spanish players.
We've had this discussion on here numerous times and I hold with the theory that the British grass roots youth training system is poor and needs to be revised as the general quality of young British players coming through is poor, with the odd exception.
Also, these kids that come through have a couple of good games at 17, 18 or 19 years old and get put on mega-contracts that make them millionaires by 20. This is ridiculous and kills the motivation of so many of them as they think "I've made it because I is rich init."
Put the pampered lazy little fuckers back to cleaning the boots of the senior players and wage cap them at £1000 a week until they hit 23.
Sorted.
- DB10GOONER
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Re: Arsenal's "British core"
John Stone is the perfect example. I honestly thought I was going mad as I just could not see what the media fuss was about. Absolutely bang average at best.SteveO 35 wrote:I think this is the biggest problem actually mate. Some of the academies that we run over here these days are as good as any in the world and we have some excellent young coaches emerging too. The problem is the mega contracts, which start with parents being wooed when kids haven't even reached their teenage years and the first sign of success....along comes a 20k per week contract. Look at John Stones - honest to god I can't believe this guy is now being touted as a £60m footballer - bang average at best - and if he does go to Madrid or the like he will be a 100% flop.....but why should he worry, he'll be made up within a yearDB10GOONER wrote:I know it shouldn't really matter where a player comes from and Lord knows being Oirish I shouldn't care, but I just think an Ingerlish/British club should have at least a core (if not a majority) of their players from Ingerland/Britain, same as a Spanish club should have a core of Spanish players.
We've had this discussion on here numerous times and I hold with the theory that the British grass roots youth training system is poor and needs to be revised as the general quality of young British players coming through is poor, with the odd exception.
Also, these kids that come through have a couple of good games at 17, 18 or 19 years old and get put on mega-contracts that make them millionaires by 20. This is ridiculous and kills the motivation of so many of them as they think "I've made it because I is rich init."
Put the pampered lazy little fuckers back to cleaning the boots of the senior players and wage cap them at £1000 a week until they hit 23.
Sorted.
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Re: Arsenal's "British core"
little bit of scouse talk there mate.SteveO 35 wrote:.but why should he worry, he'll be made up within a year
By the way, if anyone doesn't like Ramsey, they don't like football.
- Yankee_Gooner_Dandee
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Re: Arsenal's "British core"
Jack is the best of the bunch but we all know how that's working out
Ramsey has a place in the team, Chambers may at some point be okay, and i dont really know about Welbeck yet.
But the rest can fuck off.
Ramsey has a place in the team, Chambers may at some point be okay, and i dont really know about Welbeck yet.
But the rest can fuck off.
Re: Arsenal's "British core"
That's a problem we've had at Arsenal. When Wenger started bringing in his vanity project kids, he was buying them from foreign academies and putting them on ridiculous amounts of money, which made them really hard to shift once Wenger realised (about 5 years after everyone else btw) that they were no good.DB10GOONER wrote:I know it shouldn't really matter where a player comes from and Lord knows being Oirish I shouldn't care, but I just think an Ingerlish/British club should have at least a core (if not a majority) of their players from Ingerland/Britain, same as a Spanish club should have a core of Spanish players.
We've had this discussion on here numerous times and I hold with the theory that the British grass roots youth training system is poor and needs to be revised as the general quality of young British players coming through is poor, with the odd exception.
Also, these kids that come through have a couple of good games at 17, 18 or 19 years old and get put on mega-contracts that make them millionaires by 20. This is ridiculous and kills the motivation of so many of them as they think "I've made it because I is rich init."
Put the pampered lazy little fuckers back to cleaning the boots of the senior players and wage cap them at £1000 a week until they hit 23.
Sorted.
- GoonerMuzz
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Re: Arsenal's "British core"
I personally feel that since Ramsey had his excellent season he has become too much of a primma dona, he always tries to get into the action even if it is to the detriment of other players.arseofacrow wrote:little bit of scouse talk there mate.SteveO 35 wrote:.but why should he worry, he'll be made up within a year
By the way, if anyone doesn't like Ramsey, they don't like football.
Too often he makes runs which clash with other players, or takes a ball into dead ends rather than seeing the space available either to play a pass or make a move with the ball to draw out defenders and make space for others. Too often dwells on the ball and then is closed down and ends up having to go sideways or backwards. I wont argue he doesn't put in a lot of effort but effort only counts when it is useful and too often it isn't.
Maybe he's trying too hard, or he feels he has something to prove but for me he needs to tone it back and play as a team player and not as an individual so much.
Jack is a player i actually like but unfortunately has a near permanent sick note and therefore needs to be let go, physically he's just not strong enough to play the role he's given.
Chambers had/has potential but as said above i think his confidence was shot to hell last season and he needs a good loan spell with regular playing to get it back, if he stays here he'll keep getting fed to the wolves at crucial moments. He is still young and has time to develop, hopefully it wont take 10 years and he'll actually get there unlike some.
Ox, Gibbs and Theo all fall into the category of had potential but have squandered it and are not good enough to play for us.
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Re: Arsenal's "British core"
Still think Ox has it in him to be good, but sadly not with Boss in charge- he would be wise to do the advise handed to Joel by the Stoke revolutionaries "get out while you can. "
Wilshere the same, he could still make it with proper medical and alterations to his tendency to keep the ball too close to him and for a fraction too long- but very sadly I don't see it changing under Boss
Chambers the same as Ox
Jenkinsons ditto
Rambo ditto
Gibbs possibly ditto
Come to think of it- all of them ditto. .... except possibly Welbeck who isn't quite at the races sadly
Wilshere the same, he could still make it with proper medical and alterations to his tendency to keep the ball too close to him and for a fraction too long- but very sadly I don't see it changing under Boss
Chambers the same as Ox
Jenkinsons ditto
Rambo ditto
Gibbs possibly ditto
Come to think of it- all of them ditto. .... except possibly Welbeck who isn't quite at the races sadly
Re: Arsenal's "British core"
Wenger's signed better players than the BritishCore, thus keeping them out the team.
Is that not a good thing? Can't really bash Wenger for doing what you secretly want to happen. Dear oh dear the logic around this gaff at times.
Wenger hasn't failed the BritishCore, they've just been displaced by a higher calibre.
Is that not a good thing? Can't really bash Wenger for doing what you secretly want to happen. Dear oh dear the logic around this gaff at times.
Wenger hasn't failed the BritishCore, they've just been displaced by a higher calibre.
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Re: Arsenal's "British core"
Robin_L wrote:Wenger's signed better players than the BritishCore, thus keeping them out the team.
Is that not a good thing? Can't really bash Wenger for doing what you secretly want to happen. Dear oh dear the logic around this gaff at times.
Wenger hasn't failed the BritishCore, they've just been displaced by a higher calibre.
You just get better and better. Keep it up.