THE WENGER THREAD

[augie]

John Hartson talking shite now

Arsene Wenger will be the Arsenal manager next season and will spend £150 million on new players this summer.. #AFC

Shocked at the Hatred towards Wenger by some Arsenal fans.. Clueless with short memories.. Don't hang him out to dry. #poor

Another brainless journeyman who has made a good living out of being no better than average Why are the media so keen to get the opinions of these low talent former players ? If it wasn't for his cancer battle, I'm not sure that many of the average fans would even know who harton is

[augie]

3 problems with another supposed "war chest"
1) he still probably won't spend it
2) we will face massive competition this summer for the best players as lots of PL clubs are now rich because of the new TV deal
3) and finally, and this is the important one we all know that whoever he buys he no longer has any idea of how to manage players or a team. Most likely they will end up injured or suffering from burnout.

I hope I am wrong but it looks likely we will stagger on into next season with Wenger still as boss, and endure what will be a car crash of a season and one which will destroy his legacy at the club.

I am absolutely convinced he will still be manager next year. He will leave when he decides to leave. No amount of fan pressure will drive him out. And Mediocrity Stan and the Board will not push him whilst he is delivering at least 4th place and the CL money. Even if we finished 7th this season then they would give him "the time he is entitled to" to put it right. We are fucking stuck with him for at least another season but probably more.

When he leaves it will be at the expiry of a contract. Anybody who thinks that he will explicitly accept that he's no longer capable of taking the club forward/the best man for the job if we finish 2nd or 3rd behind Leicester needs to re-think the events of the last half a decade. Especially finishing above Chelsea, United, Liverpool, probably City and quite possibly Spurs.

You are spot on DB10 that if we do finish outside the top 4 and by some unknown miracle the sun didn't fall out of the sky, his army of apologists would point out that it was the first time in [X] years we hadn't qualified, a record only matched by [X] and that he deserves at least one more season to put it right. After all, 1 sub-par season in 20 isn't bad, is it?

Our only hope is that we have a stinker of a season and implode (like this year) in a year where his contract is due, and that the fans muster up enough discontent for long enough to persuade him to jack it in whilst he is able to claim that he is walking of his own accord to experience pastures new.

I don't believe that he will ever feel that way - however I do think that he will grow very angry at being questioned/abused/criticised by "ungrateful fans" ( ), and I do think that he would feel above that and would walk away if the calls for his departure were widespread and vocal

[DB10GOONER]

John Hartson talking shite now

Arsene Wenger will be the Arsenal manager next season and will spend £150 million on new players this summer.. #AFC

Shocked at the Hatred towards Wenger by some Arsenal fans.. Clueless with short memories.. Don't hang him out to dry. #poor

Another brainless journeyman who has made a good living out of being no better than average Why are the media so keen to get the opinions of these low talent former players ? If it wasn't for his cancer battle, I'm not sure that many of the average fans would even know who harton is

Tad harsh, but I agree with you, augie.

£150 million?? Has Hartson now got Wenger's ear? TBH I doubt if Wenger himself can remember who Hartson was!

Too far?

[Ikechukwu1]

I've always tried to be more positive and have frequently defended AW on here when he has been subjected to unreasonable/unsubstantiated criticism. Don't get me wrong, there's been plenty of reasonable criticism too which I've always agreed with. Now I'm afraid I am resigned 100% to the fact that he must go. This isn't because I hate him. I could never do that because he has done great things for this club over the years. We all enjoyed some tremendous football for several years and we should be grateful for that but he has changed (been changed maybe?) over time and his focus is clearly no longer on building strong teams that can compete for trophies. He's become too embroiled in the non football aspects of the club and the lines have become blurred. He's also developed an incredible arrogance that leaves a bad taste almost every time he speaks lately.

Sadly I don't think him going will make a shred of difference at the club. Whilst we have an owner that has publicly stated that its about the money coming in not winning trophies, we don't stand a chance. I'm pretty certain in my mind that the following statements are correct, a fact which makes me sad:-

1. Wenger will leave when he is ready to, not before.
2. The board will not sack him while he is getting the cash cow that is the CL.
3. Kroenke is going nowhere and his agenda will not change.
4. The fans have no power to change this as there is too big a waiting list/tourist fans ready to fill any empty seats for any direct action to be effective.
5. Buying an ST and not going so they play to empty stadiums will not work either. You're only punishing one person by doing this and it isn't Kroenke.
6. The players also have no power to change this. If anyone doesn't fall in line, or speaks out, they'll be sold or left to rot in the reserves. If players choose to leave we'll sign others. They won't care provided that they get that 4th spot and say what you will about Wenger, he's always done that and there's no reason why he shouldn't continue to do so.

I've never known such outright contempt towards a teams supporters to be publicly shown by any club. They literally are taking the view 'If you don't like it you can fuck off. There are plenty more mugs around for us to get money from'.
That breaks my heart! It really does............ and there's NOTHING anyone can do about it.

I do not and cannot agree with point 4. I also don't agree with the "there's such a long ST waiting list".
On the mythical "waiting list" I know people down at number 18,000 who've been offered tickets. They have rejected them out of hand, citing the inexcusable performances. Arsenal aren't Barca. Arsenal isn't a winning machine stuffed with world class talent that people are desperate to see, so sorry but I simply refuse to accept Arsenal are sooo big we can transcend fan discontent.

I also totally reject the argument that there's nothing fans can do. As Lee Dixon said on ITV the other day, "make no mistake it's the fans that decide when this ends". Gazidis said 3 years ago "the fans will decide Arsene's future". Believe me, if the fans decide they've had enough then Wenker is gone, in 69 seconds.
You have to be pragmatic and look at it this way: Kroenke has started feeling the heat. Despite everyone talking about Kroenke's love for Lord A-hole, Stan had loyalty to nothing and nobody. If getting rid of Wenker takes the heat off him then he will do it.

I also totally reject that it makes no difference who comes in so long as Stan is there. I'll repeat: Kroenke sanctioned £42m on Ozil, £35m on Sanchez, £17m on Arshavin and a wage bill of £192m. He makes millions available every summer. If Ancelotti or Pep had been managing Arsenal under Kroenke this season, Arsenal win the league. So I therefore don't accept that "it doesn't matter what manager comes in". Because if you kept Kroenke and gave even Ronny Koeman the exact same set of players and the same resources, they would be far more successful.

The fans can and will decide when Lord A hole goes.

I'll simply remind you that Liverpool FC was owned by 2 Yank vulture capitalists who were ruthless profiteers. And yet, the Scousers managed to run them, and their manager, outta town. So if they could do that to not one, but two disinterested distant ruthless sociopaths, don't tell me Arsenal are soooo unique we can't do the same?

[xisstential]

Even if Wenger was FORCED by those at the club to spend that kind of money he wouldn't. At the moment he can tread water (get CL, make a half assed attempt at winning the league, etc) with the minimum of outlay. It makes what he achieves, in relation to money spent, seem like a good return. Kinda hard to justify it this year with spurs & Leicester outshining him on all fronts but he'll spin his way out of that... they've done it once, I do it every year. . BUT, should he go out and spend 150m and still only get 3/4th place he is going to be shown up for exactly who he is. And that I think is his biggest fear, spending shedloads of money and still failing. There will be nowhere to hide from that.So he'll plod along doing exactly what he's doing.

[Yankee_Gooner_Dandee]

We could for sure win the league with Stan as owner. I despise him and his lack of caring about winning, BUT as long as he gives the manager the power to buy players then it's not really his fault the manager doesn't use that power.

It's all Wenger's fault, plain and simple.

[Gunner Rob]

We could for sure win the league with Stan as owner. I despise him and his lack of caring about winning, BUT as long as he gives the manager the power to buy players then it's not really his fault the manager doesn't use that power.

It's all Wenger's fault, plain and simple.

we definitely could have done THIS season - look at the dross above us.
I just wonder though if in the coming years, with so many clubs becoming richer in the PL that it might be a little harder.
That word "ambition" might be required by clubs to take the next step. Kroenke has admitted that he doesnt have ambition and so it will be that much harder for Arsenal plc to succeed.

[DB10GOONER]

We could for sure win the league with Stan as owner. I despise him and his lack of caring about winning, BUT as long as he gives the manager the power to buy players then it's not really his fault the manager doesn't use that power.

It's all Wenger's fault, plain and simple.

Whilst I think we need sweeping changes at Board/Owner level I agree we certainly could have won the PL this season with a better manager. But I also feel Kroenke needs to go because he hasn't put pressure on Wenger to deliver and is obviously not going to sack him unless something extreme happens. My fear is that just replacing Wenger won't be enough, it might lead to a situation where the new manager is also allowed into that comfort zone of "just deliver the CL money every season" rather than being pressed by the owner to win something.

Wenger is to blame for on pitch failings. But the owner is to blame for not sacking him.

[Ikechukwu1]

Hopefully that £150m war chest helps Arsene in his moral quest to overhaul the evil oil money powers of Leicester City and Spuds

[Arsenal Till I Die]

Let's face it, he's here for another decade at least.

[BFG4]

I've always tried to be more positive and have frequently defended AW on here when he has been subjected to unreasonable/unsubstantiated criticism. Don't get me wrong, there's been plenty of reasonable criticism too which I've always agreed with. Now I'm afraid I am resigned 100% to the fact that he must go. This isn't because I hate him. I could never do that because he has done great things for this club over the years. We all enjoyed some tremendous football for several years and we should be grateful for that but he has changed (been changed maybe?) over time and his focus is clearly no longer on building strong teams that can compete for trophies. He's become too embroiled in the non football aspects of the club and the lines have become blurred. He's also developed an incredible arrogance that leaves a bad taste almost every time he speaks lately.

Sadly I don't think him going will make a shred of difference at the club. Whilst we have an owner that has publicly stated that its about the money coming in not winning trophies, we don't stand a chance. I'm pretty certain in my mind that the following statements are correct, a fact which makes me sad:-

1. Wenger will leave when he is ready to, not before.
2. The board will not sack him while he is getting the cash cow that is the CL.
3. Kroenke is going nowhere and his agenda will not change.
4. The fans have no power to change this as there is too big a waiting list/tourist fans ready to fill any empty seats for any direct action to be effective.
5. Buying an ST and not going so they play to empty stadiums will not work either. You're only punishing one person by doing this and it isn't Kroenke.
6. The players also have no power to change this. If anyone doesn't fall in line, or speaks out, they'll be sold or left to rot in the reserves. If players choose to leave we'll sign others. They won't care provided that they get that 4th spot and say what you will about Wenger, he's always done that and there's no reason why he shouldn't continue to do so.

I've never known such outright contempt towards a teams supporters to be publicly shown by any club. They literally are taking the view 'If you don't like it you can fuck off. There are plenty more mugs around for us to get money from'.
That breaks my heart! It really does............ and there's NOTHING anyone can do about it.

On the point of hating or disliking Wenger, well if you still respect him, your doing so while completely ignoring everything he has come out with in the last few years. Whether its blaming the fans for his sides failures, or defending high ticket prices in order to be more in bed with the board. It's funny, because lets say Henry said something disrespectful towards the fans, everyone would lash out at him, but similar to Wenger, the argument could be made that Henry contributed greatly to our successes as a club. Does that mean that someone should be respected regardless of what they say or do, once they contributed to the club at some point in a positive way? On the point of Kroenke, the only blame that can be given to Kroenke is for not sacking Wenger, but its Wenger who refuses to spend the money available to him. Its Wenger who makes the same mistakes very season. Any decent manager would have won the title this season, and Wenger failed.

[northbank123]

Agree Augie - I'm not saying this to be vitriolic but had Hartson not had cancer I doubt he would be given a platform given that he was a journeyman player, struggles to articulate himself and offers no insight on anything.

Then again Jermaine Jenas is a regular BBC pundit.

[armchair]

Like Ive said before on here a million times, so I'll say it again.

The moneys there, always has been there.
Kroenke is a businessman, not a "soccer" man or a fan. He doesnt see things like us, so why on earth anybody would think hed sack Wenger for footballing reasons is beyond me. They all defer to Wenger on footballing decisions and why woulcnt they. Easy life. But Wenger may be put under pressure if his performance impacts on othef areas, like season ticket projections, bad PR due to fan protests.

For me Gazidis is the key. We've seen how he was instrumental in the Ozil deal after Wenger fucked up the Suarez bid with hus derisory +£1.00 insulting non-attempt. Now we hear about the "war chest". I know we hear about this every year but I reckon these banner protests have made someone sit up and take notice. Thats gotta be a good thing.

But like NB123 says. The pressure needs to be kept up. Changing focus and targeting Kroenke as I believe is happening will play right into Wengers sweaty little hands.

Kroenke is a businessman and is successful.
Wenger is a coward and a fraud and is failing.

[Herd]

People it will not matter if the season ticket waiting list goes to ZERO , the conglomerate's will still sell out and the place will be filled with day trippers that will spend more .

I have seen an internal report from Arsenal that basically said this some years ago, certainly before we employed that fucking dork Tom Fox who when I met him in Singapore told me after a few cocktails that Arsenal were determined to move away from
its reliance on Season tickets because they were considered "low yield" .
Rather than punch him in the Gob which is what I wanted to do , Missus Herd kept pandering to him so he talked more and more.
Basically he kept referring back to the US Models where most fans only visit the stadium 1/2 times a year and buy lots of clobber plus more F n B .
He also gabbled on about branding and partnerships ,the formidable mrs Herd got me out before I got busy on him !
Shortly afterwards Arsenal increased the overseas supporters section in the conglomerates to the sizable section it now is !

We are no more than customers , they pay lip service to us but really we are just bricks in the wall !

[Henry Norris 1913]

Agree Augie - I'm not saying this to be vitriolic but had Hartson not had cancer I doubt he would be given a platform given that he was a journeyman player, struggles to articulate himself and offers no insight on anything.

Then again Jermaine Jenas is a regular BBC pundit.

why is it that every average ex footballer now has to air their ignorant, pandering opinion on wenger these days? do they even make the slightest effort to learn what the anti-wenger argument is about?

can't wait to hear garth crooks and tony cascarino join in and defend le fraud.