Limit to foreign players.

[Juan]

Whilst I totally agree...to what extent has the cost of English/British players also hindered them going abroad?

When Serie A was at it's strongest in the last 80s and early 90s they had loads of dosh and the likes of Platt, Gazza, Souness and errr Luther Blissett all played for big clubs.

Now the Prem is the wealthiest league outside the big European clubs can teams afford to buy English players?

This is me playing Devil's Advocate, but could this have some influnce on the lack of players going abroad?

[26may1989]

DEAD RIGHT 26MAY89,,
HOW MANY OF ENGLANDS FINEST HAVE GONE ABROAD IN THE LAST TEN YEARS,,
TO MUCH MONEY AND SOCIAL LIFE FOR THEM AT HOME
TO LAZY TO LEARN SOMETHING NEW,,
I KNOW ITS OLD BUT DIDNT IAN RUSH WHEN HE WAS AT JUVE SAY THAT IT WAS LIKE LIVING IN A FOREIGN COUNTRY

He did, which was classic thick footballer behaviour, but (like Reyes) at least Rush tried it. Moving abroad isn't easy, and not everyone can do it, but it's the complete absence of English players going abroad that pisses me off.

It was never a huge thing for English players to go abraod, but at least in the 80s and 90s Lineker, Waddle, Hoddle, Platt, Gascoigne, Wilkins, Blissett, Keegan, Woodcock, Hateley and several others tried it (not to mention Celts like Hughes, Archibald, Collins and Brady). In the last 10 years, there has been a couple of top quality recruits to Real Madrid (plus the farce that was Woodgate), and odds and sods like Vinny Samways, Michael Ball and that Scottish bloke who played in Moscow for 18 months. Pathetic.

At the same time, the number of, just for example, French players now playing in England and Scotland (in almost all divisions) has mushroomed. And I say good on them. Now let's see the English players follow suit.

[26may1989]

Whilst I totally agree...to what extent has the cost of English/British players also hindered them going abroad?

When Serie A was at it's strongest in the last 80s and early 90s they had loads of dosh and the likes of Platt, Gazza, Souness and errr Luther Blissett all played for big clubs.

Now the Prem is the wealthiest league outside the big European clubs can teams afford to buy English players?

This is me playing Devil's Advocate, but could this have some influnce on the lack of players going abroad?

You have a point. There are two elements on the economics: (1) wages and (2) transfer fees:

(1) I would say that excessive wage expectations are part of what makes English players lose their ambition - why accept a salary of just £500k p.a. for playing first team football in Holland or Portugal when you can get £1million p.a. for being a squad player in England? But then it's their fault if they fail to develop as players.

(2) For good or bad reasons, English clubs seem happy to pay a premium for signing English/British/Irish players. That will hold back the flow of those players abroad, but that doesn't explain the almost complete absence of those players in continental Europe. If English players are as motivated as their foreign counterparts, you'd still exepct to see plenty of them (from across the sepctrum of ability) moving as frequently as players from other countries. But it's clear they are not motivated, despite all the concerns about the national team's ability. So, in my opinion, it's their motivation that's the problem - as a group (with many honourable exceptions) they simply have not been up to the challenge so far, which is why I say they don't deserve protection.

[T.S]

Just been reading some of the trip on the TeamTALK forums about this. As you'd expect, loads of United fans on there giving it the big 'un. I can't take this shit any more. I can't wait for this fucking international break to be over. I think I'm just going to bury my head in the sand until our next game.

See you all after the Wigan game then...

*buries head*

[Ben Diesel]

The problem runs through all competitive sports though - it's not just football that we're crap at, as a nation. Sport was a compulsory subject when I was at school. In addition, we had a huge flat green playing field out the back to play on, before it was sold off. Sport teachers were just that - 100% sport (and usually Welsh for some reason) - not history or geography teachers taking the odd sport class between lessons. The talented kids are still out there - it's just that the encouragement and opportunity they need to make them shine and be noticed, hardly ever is.

Take Darren Bent for example. My daughters were in the same year as him at school. Darren's talent was discovered by my daughter's PE teacher - an Evertonian - totally committed to sports teaching. A quality all-round bloke, the best teacher I met at the school when my girls were there. It was him that arranged for Darren to be scouted by the tractor boys and I suppose the rest is history. OK, I agree - he's not worth the fee that sperz paid for him but any player that can bang in the goals like he did at Charlton (he was out injured for nearly a third of the season) can't be that bad. Rumour has it he's a Gooner as well.

But that type of discovery must be happening less and less in this country now. Grass roots I believe they call it.

Oh, and my daughter's claim to fame is that she once beat Darren Bent at badminton.....

[dvbrisgooner1]

With the call from various quarters to limit the number of non English players in a team it appears to me that some people are missing a very big point.
Lets go back 18 months and Southampton have a good English player called Theo it becomes clear that he has talent, is a great prospect and is English. What is he now worth? So everyone wants him but who can afford him. Manure, Chavs and possibly Arsenal. So what we are saying is either Manure or Chelsea Chavs will buy every top class English player so putting themselves in to there own mini league to win the premiership. Give it 5 years and the Premier league will be just like Scotland. It’s no wonder that red nose from Manure is one of those calling for a change.
This will affect all teams in the premier league. Let’s say West Ham develops a good young English player 1 season playing for the Hammers and he will be gone.

Absolutely spot-on. We were discussing this on the way home from Monday's game. We were considering who would be playing for Arsenal up front is we couldn't have our foreign stars. Given that only Rooney and Owen would get near the Arsenal team at this time, we would be left to pick up people like Dean "always injured" Ashton or Andrew "no goals" Johnson. Only the 2 richest clubs would be able to buy the top English players - as they have done, leaving the rest of the league with absolute shite and playing in empty stadium's.

Those who shout about this being a problem for the ENGLAND team would need to understand that Scots, Welsh and Irish would have to be considered "foreign" in order to get their wish.

[JakeN13]

Have heard the way around the EU law is that it won't limit how many foreign players clubs employ, just how many they're fielding on the pitch.

[26may1989]

Have heard the way around the EU law is that it won't limit how many foreign players clubs employ, just how many they're fielding on the pitch.

Nope, that's wrong to the extent it applies to players from EU countries (plus Norway, Swizerland and Iceland). It would be discriminatory and would be quickly struck down by the courts.

There are however no restrictions re capping the number of players from outside Europe, either as employees or players in a game.

[Galasso]

Have heard the way around the EU law is that it won't limit how many foreign players clubs employ, just how many they're fielding on the pitch.

Nope, that's wrong to the extent it applies to players from EU countries (plus Norway, Swizerland and Iceland). It would be discriminatory and would be quickly struck down by the courts.

There are however no restrictions re capping the number of players from outside Europe, either as employees or players in a game.

Which now very often does not make any difference due to the fact most African or South American players pick up EU passports in one way or another.

And the system of issuing work permits is supposed to be some sort of cap to protect quality but is flexible enough to allow plenty of successful appeals.

[26may1989]

The problem runs through all competitive sports though - it's not just football that we're crap at, as a nation.

I agree that sport in schools and as an extra-curricular activity for kids isn't good (you can see that just by looking at how wide the waistline of the average 13 year old is today).

But I don't agree that all British sport is in a poor state at all, at least at the elite level: starting with less glamourous sports, we've got the best generation of cyclists for decades, world-beating rowers, squash players and badminton players, good sailers, and some superb boxers (esp Hatton, Khan and Calzaghe). In tennis, we've got one star in Andy Murray (yes, it should be more). And we've got Lewis Hamilton in motor-racing. There are still loads of good British golfers. In athletics, although we're not at the heights we were in the 80s and 90s, the women are doing well, and much better than the men these days. In cricket, yes, England got caned in the last Ashes, but they're much better than a decade ago. In rugby union, of course England are not as good as they were (and Scotland and Wales are poor), but England still got to the World Cup Final and may do well in the next few years. The GB rugby league side just thrashed New Zealand.

And then there's women's football - Arsenal (whose players are almost all British) are the reigning European champions and went the entire season last year without losing a single game in any competition. An Arsenal-dominated England side then got to the World Cup (an achievement in itself) and did ok.

Taking a UK view of men's football, while Wales aren't doing well and England continue to under-achieve, Norn Ireland have done pretty well and Scotland have been doing excellently.

Cup half full, I'd say.

[Charlie! Charlie!]

Gerrard saying he agrees with limiting Foreign players here is laughable.
After Reina, Riise, Agger, Hyppia, Mascherano, Sissoko, Babel, Torres, Kuyt, Alonso and co have left, Pennant is banged up again, Carragher is unscrewed from the ground after playing at he Emirates can Steven please turn the light out to save the "leccy".

[26may1989]

Gerrard saying he agrees with limiting Foreign players here is laughable.
After Reina, Riise, Agger, Hyppia, Mascherano, Sissoko, Babel, Torres, Kuyt, Alonso and co have left, Pennant is banged up again, Carragher is unscrewed from the ground after playing at he Emirates can Steven please turn the light out to save the "leccy".

And fucking Paul "Rent-a-gob" Parker as well. It's driving me nuts, all this whingeing when it's English players' fault if they're not developing.

I thought this from Russian striker, Alexander Kerzhakov, is on the button: "England have a team of big stars who earn an awful lot of money from playing with their private deals. Russia have a compact group of players who don't have anywhere near as much money, but with far more hard workers on the field. That's the difference between the countries. That's why we are in a strong position and England have been left just hoping."

[Charlie! Charlie!]

Spot on mate - tell "stevie g" to shove that in his shell suit

[Galasso]

"England have a team of big stars who earn an awful lot of money from playing with their private deals.

No wonder they haven't got time to work on their football technique :shock