View from this side of the fence.

[Bendtners Drinking Buddy]

As much as I agree with a lot of what you say bdb, it still all boils down to the way the club has been mis-managed by people in power this past season - if a person fcuks about at the beginning of a race when every other *word censored* starts running then that person shouldnt deserve credit for finishing 3rd because it was down to them that we had so much ground to make up It was absolutely disgraceful how the people in power have been running this club and for me they have no excuse - some will argue that their hands were tied having lost cesc and na$ri late but they had the power there so they should have either sold them early or had the balls to stand by what they said all summer by refusing to sell them at all

Cannot agree either with your assessment of henry's re-signing on loan - for me it smacks of a desperate cheapo move that you would expect to see a *word censored* like the fat walrus at the shammers do We had money to spend to bring in a striker so why not do that instead of having the guy for a few weeks and then having no back up at all for rvp for the last 3 months of the season ? For me this was yet another example of mis-management on a large scale and personally I think far too much credit has been given to henry's off pitch influence when, for me at least, the return of sagna was probably a much bigger factor. In fact I also believe that no enough credit for the turnaround was given to the fans - we all hear comments from players about how great their support is and bullshit like that but sometimes I think players and teams in general need to be on the end of some stick to make them realise that strolling around and going through the motions is not acceptable and I think that they would have got that message loud and clear after swansea away and manure at home

Btw I am glad to see you posting on here again lately

Cheers Pal - the Henry thing was strange - but it paid off. Same as Campbell and Lehmann did in my opinion - but i must agree, i do not want to see us continue in this vain.....imagine bringing back Gilberto in three years time

Yes go on, cue the Song jokes!!! Bastards!

[flash gunner]

I can see what youre saying BDB but dont necessarily agree. If a murderer revived his victim would you give him credit? (its a bit of a crude analogy but i hope you understand where im coming from) Wenger murdered our season before it even started last summer and money was there to be spent as on deadline day we spent a good few million, why not get the players out and new ones in last July so they could have a full pre-season and hit the ground running come Newcastle away???!!!! Is it an achievement? maybe for the players but certainly NOT for Wenger IMO.... It's as irritating as Wenger in a press conference after a defeat saying we lacked maturity and then buying more youngsters!!!!!!!

Again IMO Wenger will be known as the greatest ever Arsenal manager but his time has been and gone and we are crying out for new ideas at the club

[mikeyb772001]

It’s simple really.

If, we would of finished the season in style continuing to beat teams the way we were against citeh, spuds and Newcastle then I would agree.

But we crashed, again! That run we went on was an achievement but sadly as always we fucked it up and crashed, the pressure was too much despite other teams around us doing shit.

Don’t get it twisted our league place was eventually decided by other teams doing worse than us.

If we would of gone on to beat Wigan and Norwich for example and not lost points at QPR I would 100% come out and say it was wenger biggest achievement since the league

But we know he bottled it and so did the team

[Bendtners Drinking Buddy]

It’s simple really.

If, we would of finished the season in style continuing to beat teams the way we were against citeh, spuds and Newcastle then I would agree.

But we crashed, again! That run we went on was an achievement but sadly as always we fucked it up and crashed, the pressure was too much despite other teams around us doing shit.

Don’t get it twisted our league place was eventually decided by other teams doing worse than us.

If we would of gone on to beat Wigan and Norwich for example and not lost points at QPR I would 100% come out and say it was wenger biggest achievement since the league
But we know he bottled it and so did the team

I dont understand..........you say finishing third would have been his biggest acheivement....thats what we did, it doesnt matter how does it - all teams played 38 games. We dropped points in those games, but beat City, Spurs, Chelsea, Liverpool etc etc - you end up where you end up.

[flash gunner]

One thing i totally agree with is the league table at the end of a season doesnt lie, the best team comes first the worst comes last

[mikeyb772001]

It’s simple really.

If, we would of finished the season in style continuing to beat teams the way we were against citeh, spuds and Newcastle then I would agree.

But we crashed, again! That run we went on was an achievement but sadly as always we fucked it up and crashed, the pressure was too much despite other teams around us doing shit.

Don’t get it twisted our league place was eventually decided by other teams doing worse than us.

If we would of gone on to beat Wigan and Norwich for example and not lost points at QPR I would 100% come out and say it was wenger biggest achievement since the league
But we know he bottled it and so did the team

I dont understand..........you say finishing third would have been his biggest acheivement....thats what we did, it doesnt matter how does it - all teams played 38 games. We dropped points in those games, but beat City, Spurs, Chelsea, Liverpool etc etc - you end up where you end up.

you just dont get it.

[Gunnersaurus]

What a good thread, never thought id see the day that a thread could be well balanced on both sides on here after the last few draining months.

[begeegs]

I think that the team plays with far too much freedom and with more tactical nous, we should have finished better than we did point-wise. So in other words, it is debatable on how much of it was Wenger or the players.

I'd agree with everyone that I respect him for all that he has done, but I think that he has had more than enough time to turn this team around and now that it has gotten to the point that star players are leaving in their prime or in some case before their prime, it shows that they also no longer believe. That to me shows that it is time to go for Wenger.

For me, the 2011 end of season collapse was what did it for me. Last summer just compounded the issue.

[Bendtners Drinking Buddy]

The interesting thing is, had we not been top four.......i myself would have admitted it would be time for him to go. as im sure more would have done.......BUT, he got us there - he stands and falls by the success and failures of his team - so if he takes the flack he must take the credit too - its sometimes easier to administer the former in any walk of life isnt it, but it does need to be remembered. Top four , for the current squad, its their level - they are not able to challenge for the title (that needs to change) - but in that sense, we were about Par for where we are.

We all agree major mistakes were made last season, they should not and cannot happen again - but we did recover, its that final point where im attributing credit here. Especially given the awful finishes of the last few seasons.

Podolski is a good buy, may take time to adapt but I think he will prove a decent signing. As for more, who knows - as i said at the outset - we would all agree on where we need strengthing i think - we have bought quite a few players in over the last few seasons to be fair. Moreover, needs to be remembered that players need to leave before we can bring some in - with the 25 man rule and all that - I hope a lot of the deadwood will go - if anyone will have them!

[mikeyb772001]

The interesting thing is, had we not been top four.......i myself would have admitted it would be time for him to go. as im sure more would have done.......BUT, he got us there - he stands and falls by the success and failures of his team - so if he takes the flack he must take the credit too - its sometimes easier to administer the former in any walk of life isnt it, but it does need to be remembered. Top four , for the current squad, its their level - they are not able to challenge for the title (that needs to change) - but in that sense, we were about Par for where we are.

We all agree major mistakes were made last season, they should not and cannot happen again - but we did recover, its that final point where im attributing credit here. Especially given the awful finishes of the last few seasons.

Podolski is a good buy, may take time to adapt but I think he will prove a decent signing. As for more, who knows - as i said at the outset - we would all agree on where we need strengthing i think - we have bought quite a few players in over the last few seasons to be fair. Moreover, needs to be remembered that players need to leave before we can bring some in - with the 25 man rule and all that - I hope a lot of the deadwood will go - if anyone will have them!

Save the appreciation until Sep1st buddy

If we keep RVP, and make more additions I will for once give credit.

As I said before, tail end of the season we crashed again and bottled it again. Same old story nothing changed. The good work he did all went to shit.

Lucky result against west brom and we scrapped 3rd. The lost points to qpr, Norwich, wigan and chav reserve team was shameful to name just a few.


It takes more than a run of 9 games to make up for everything else mate.

Lets see him fight for new players and keep our best ones before we go wearing I love arsene t shirts again

[arseofacrow]

The interesting thing is, had we not been top four.......i myself would have admitted it would be time for him to go. as im sure more would have done.......BUT, he got us there - he stands and falls by the success and failures of his team - so if he takes the flack he must take the credit too - its sometimes easier to administer the former in any walk of life isnt it, but it does need to be remembered. Top four , for the current squad, its their level - they are not able to challenge for the title (that needs to change) - but in that sense, we were about Par for where we are.

We all agree major mistakes were made last season, they should not and cannot happen again - but we did recover, its that final point where im attributing credit here. Especially given the awful finishes of the last few seasons.

Podolski is a good buy, may take time to adapt but I think he will prove a decent signing. As for more, who knows - as i said at the outset - we would all agree on where we need strengthing i think - we have bought quite a few players in over the last few seasons to be fair. Moreover, needs to be remembered that players need to leave before we can bring some in - with the 25 man rule and all that - I hope a lot of the deadwood will go - if anyone will have them!

the mistakes were made 07-08 onwards, and they are being repeated.

[Vinny1967]

What a good thread, never thought id see the day that a thread could be well balanced on both sides on here after the last few draining months.

+ 1.

Am new here and still feeling my way as they say but it is great to see a thread like this.

[Vinny1967]

Great thread BDB and kudos for starting it and for putting your point's across so well.

Firstly I think I would be in the minority here in wanting Wenger to stay and it's nice to see other people express their views on this in a grown up manner. Not what I'm used to in the last 4 weeks but hey ho

Personally speaking I think finishing third only papered over the cracks that have been evident over the last few years. While I think it was an achievement in itself, I also think we stumbled over the line like a guy with a belly full of beer trying to walk in a straight line, and only succeeded because of others ineptitudes, different priorities and no small amount of luck. The run of games from late Feb on was surprising to me and it showed me there is some character in the team although the run in was dissapointing to say the least. The result was a third place finish and I agree with you and others that the League table does not lie. Finishing so far behind an ordinary Utd team is a better indication of our season and we were found lacking to my mind

For me I was reasonably happy with 'the project' up to 10/11 season. For me I thought we could compete for the League title until that season and indeed could have had one or two in the previous 5 years if Wenger was not so stubborn and loyal and gone and bought a decent keeper. I do admire loyalty to some extent and it can have it's rewards but it can also be misplaced and I think Wenger has indeed proven that over the last few years. The good news for me came in an interview late on in 10/11 when he finally admitted he needed to strengthen in certain areas and would be doing so last summer. Unfortunately last Summer was an unmitigated disaster for the club and I would hold Wenger largely responsibe for this.

Last day signings is no way to run a club imo. Now don't get me wrong, if someone came up that could strengthen the team I would never complain but to sign so many so late showed a distinct air of desperation and if anyone else had done this in a publicly quoted company there would be serious questions asked of their management policy which shows no foresight and was completely reactionary. Now even if they buried their head in the sand and believed they could keep Cesc and Nasri why the hell were we buying a striker, a full back and a centre half so late in the window when they had all summer, leaving now time to integrate.

Last winter was another failed opportunity and while I agree that Henry was a no brainer and do believe he was a positive force both on the field and on the training ground, I still believe it was a band aid on a cut that needed stitches. I really agree with Donaldo when he said it was Russian Roulette management (like that phrase btw ) as given RVP's injury record leaving us with Chamakh and Park was a bad decision imo.

The noises coming from the club are positive imo. I think Pod is a good signing and will bring a bit of character and discipline that we have lacked. With the imminent signing of Giroud it shows me a change in policy because bringing in players of their age has not been policy heretofore. I would also like to see a decent DM signed, decent back up keeper like Gordon and RVP to stay. If that happens I would be a very happy Gooner and would be confident we can compete next year.

The biggest signings for me could well turn out to be Bould and Banfield. I admire Rice and and will be forever grateful to the man as he is an icon to me and will always be a legend in my book. However I do think we have needed a shake up in the management structure and hope Bould and Banfield can step up to the plate, give us some much needed structure especially in our defense and fill the role that Dein previously provided us by becoming a positive influence in Wenger's earhole.

I do believe Wenger will see out his contract and no more, and I also believe the man is a winner and will not like to leave with another two seasons of a 3rd/4th place trophy.

Great thread again

[Red Member]

top post

I usually get called a WUM for defending Wenger so well done

thing is though that was last season and last season is now over.
if the squad for the next season isn't sorted out soon then I will reluctantly have to join the majority on here in wanting Wenger out...

[Bendtners Drinking Buddy]

Great thread BDB and kudos for starting it and for putting your point's across so well.

Firstly I think I would be in the minority here in wanting Wenger to stay and it's nice to see other people express their views on this in a grown up manner. Not what I'm used to in the last 4 weeks but hey ho

Personally speaking I think finishing third only papered over the cracks that have been evident over the last few years. While I think it was an achievement in itself, I also think we stumbled over the line like a guy with a belly full of beer trying to walk in a straight line, and only succeeded because of others ineptitudes, different priorities and no small amount of luck. The run of games from late Feb on was surprising to me and it showed me there is some character in the team although the run in was dissapointing to say the least. The result was a third place finish and I agree with you and others that the League table does not lie. Finishing so far behind an ordinary Utd team is a better indication of our season and we were found lacking to my mind

For me I was reasonably happy with 'the project' up to 10/11 season. For me I thought we could compete for the League title until that season and indeed could have had one or two in the previous 5 years if Wenger was not so stubborn and loyal and gone and bought a decent keeper. I do admire loyalty to some extent and it can have it's rewards but it can also be misplaced and I think Wenger has indeed proven that over the last few years. The good news for me came in an interview late on in 10/11 when he finally admitted he needed to strengthen in certain areas and would be doing so last summer. Unfortunately last Summer was an unmitigated disaster for the club and I would hold Wenger largely responsibe for this.

Last day signings is no way to run a club imo. Now don't get me wrong, if someone came up that could strengthen the team I would never complain but to sign so many so late showed a distinct air of desperation and if anyone else had done this in a publicly quoted company there would be serious questions asked of their management policy which shows no foresight and was completely reactionary. Now even if they buried their head in the sand and believed they could keep Cesc and Nasri why the hell were we buying a striker, a full back and a centre half so late in the window when they had all summer, leaving now time to integrate.

Last winter was another failed opportunity and while I agree that Henry was a no brainer and do believe he was a positive force both on the field and on the training ground, I still believe it was a band aid on a cut that needed stitches. I really agree with Donaldo when he said it was Russian Roulette management (like that phrase btw ) as given RVP's injury record leaving us with Chamakh and Park was a bad decision imo.

The noises coming from the club are positive imo. I think Pod is a good signing and will bring a bit of character and discipline that we have lacked. With the imminent signing of Giroud it shows me a change in policy because bringing in players of their age has not been policy heretofore. I would also like to see a decent DM signed, decent back up keeper like Gordon and RVP to stay. If that happens I would be a very happy Gooner and would be confident we can compete next year.

The biggest signings for me could well turn out to be Bould and Banfield. I admire Rice and and will be forever grateful to the man as he is an icon to me and will always be a legend in my book. However I do think we have needed a shake up in the management structure and hope Bould and Banfield can step up to the plate, give us some much needed structure especially in our defense and fill the role that Dein previously provided us by becoming a positive influence in Wenger's earhole.

I do believe Wenger will see out his contract and no more, and I also believe the man is a winner and will not like to leave with another two seasons of a 3rd/4th place trophy.

Great thread again

Enjoyed reading that mate - can totoally see your point of view - i do believe support is waning to an extent towards Wenger.

However, the home support is improving massively, our away fans are the best in the country - bar none - we sell out everywhere no matter what day of the week or where the opposition is - and i think we do have a nucleus of players like Woocheck, Kos, Sagna, Wilshire, Walcott, Arteta and VP that seem to enjoy the interaction on matchdays (Eboue used to be the only one who clapped the away fans ) and the players and crows feed off each other. What im saying is, the improvement / recovery whatever you want to call it, was a group effort as a club - and thats pleasing.

As ive said, we have a base to build now - and i think we all agree we cannot let that slip away from us or waste that opportunity.

As for VP, if he goes, he goes - it will be a shame obviously but we cant keep a player if he doesnt want to be here. What i will say is, he owes Arsenal massively. We plucked him when his career was going the wrong way (behaviour) stood by him when he was thrown in Jail and have held out on his injuries - we havnt not let him down to the extent some would have you believe. We overelied, most definately - but with Podolski and possibly this French geezer coming in - it does seem there is some movement there.