What is wrong with our defence?

[markyp]

the problem with the defence is Wenker!! he consistently neglects the glaring fact that we are shite at it and anyway if they score 3 we will score 4,well that might have been the case but that was when we had the likes of fab,nas and rvp etc etc, now we are a total feckin shambles.its quite clear that there is a rift between Bould and Wenger,If Bould was left to do his job properly the promising defensive start to the season may have continued,instead we are an accident waiting to happen.the goalkeeping situation since Lehamann departed has been a joke,how can you compete at the highest level with tossers is goal,Almunia,Fab,Scz,an other are all a crock of shit,the amount of goals they've thrown in and cost us points is criminal,id rather see a conveyor belt of goalies like at man utd over the years until we find a decent one instead of sticking with a bunch of cnuts.the best keeper we've had apart from Lehmann was Manninger he was a real gem and should have kept his place after the 98 season,back then though it didnt matter because of the calibre of out field players we had.the first few seasons of playing at the emirates we were just a goalie short of winning something,we were only a couple of clean sheets short of lifting the title or other honours on a couple of occasions and as for the champs league final well a decent keeper and we would have won it.As all things Arsenal at the mo its a case of

[highburyJD]

let's just cross our fingers Szcz makes it back for Saturday
I'm still praying he can fulfill his promise and be a true #1 for us
but even if he doesn't he's 100x better than DonVito

[DB10_TH14]

i think its the case in most team sports that the basis of a title winning team will have somewhat of a decent defense. i think sometimes half the problem is that wenger doesnt buy defenders who thrive on defending its more a case of them being footballers who play in defense if you get me. for the past 4-5 years i would never trust an arsenal team with a 1-0 in a really big match because we cant simply see it out. we dont defend well enough as a team, we are unable to do the basics and also we are susceptible from set pieces. the myth at the start of the season over the "steve bould affect" was somewhat ridiculous. until wenger acknowledges what needs to be done then we aint winning anything major for a while. we're no longer a team who is gonna out score opponents and nor are we gonna constantly win 1 nil

[highburyJD]

i thought in the first two games of the season our fullbacks failed to get forward enough...

[northbank123]

i thought in the first two games of the season our fullbacks failed to get forward enough...

I think we sacrificed attacking intent for a more solid team shape. But I would rather see that and give us a chance to actually get a solid defensive base and mentality if we try that approach for perhaps 10 games rather than do it 2 or 3 times and then revert to type and start leaking goals again.

[highburyJD]

was basically what I thought - with Giroud on current form we could well win those first two games

[clockender1]

i think its not enough protection and lack of pace - Ramsay was pants, Theo doesn't track back.

Santos has no pace and pulls TV all over the place, creating a gap between him and per or Kos.

we looked pretty solid when it was gibbs per kos and jenko, with ox coq arteta and santi in front of them.

you can't carry dead weight at the back AND in midfield without leaving gaping holes.

[Supagoon]

I can only compare us with our rivals, believe it or not im no football coach.

All i can say is our general shape when we are not in position is not as well positioned as say Manchester UTD's. For me its the standards we set. Utd always seem to get players to double up on wingers. Their team lines up in 2 lines behind the ball. I still see Sagna letting crosses get into the box rather than close defenders down. Utd have had VDS and Chelsea Cech. We've had almunia, fabianski and Scenzny. Teams score a goal per 2 shots on target on average ( a guess).
Our standards of defending are well below our traditional rivals.

I think the years of neglect are very very hard to shift. Remember Bould is battling against our standard way of players which even mean the lines of Vermaelen or Koscieleny go charging up the pitch. It was Ok when we created many chances with likes of Cesc but these days, we expose ourselves to often. On set peices frankly, we dont have dominating CBs, or any other players.

All in all, i dont expect 6 ears (by my book) of defensive neglect to be sorted in a matter of months.

Frankly some of our defending in recent years would make Roberto Martinez blush.

[Bunting14]

Can i ask why everyone is lauding Steve Bould. He may have been a great defender but can he coach defending. Pat Rice was a great defender as well and that didnt seem to work.

In my opinion we haven't got any leaders. When do you see our players arguing after a near miss for the other team. It is easy enough to argue after you let a goal in as you are trying to pass the blame on. Also i think you need an experienced goalie who has seen it all before. All our top goalies have been in their late 20s before they played for us. Finally we need the midfielders to close down quicker.

[highburyJD]

Personally I think ManUres defence has been worse than ours this year

[richpye]

i think its the case in most team sports that the basis of a title winning team will have somewhat of a decent defense. i think sometimes half the problem is that wenger doesnt buy defenders who thrive on defending its more a case of them being footballers who play in defense if you get me. for the past 4-5 years i would never trust an arsenal team with a 1-0 in a really big match because we cant simply see it out. we dont defend well enough as a team, we are unable to do the basics and also we are susceptible from set pieces. the myth at the start of the season over the "steve bould affect" was somewhat ridiculous. until wenger acknowledges what needs to be done then we aint winning anything major for a while. we're no longer a team who is gonna out score opponents and nor are we gonna constantly win 1 nil

I would go one step further and say that the basis of a title winning team is a a decent spine to the team. So the Central Midfield also needed to be considered in the defensive formula.

Our last good teams had a strong defensive ability, whereas our current and recent partnerships have been more offensively minded. This is not to say they haven't negated their defensive duties but they just aren't as good at it.

So the defensive problems for me lie in the fact we seem to give away the ball way too easily, meaning the defence has less and less time to organise itself when the opposition regain possession.

The other issue is the lack of settled formation. Firstly with Sagna being out for so long, Gibbs being an effective crock and our Captain not one of our two strongest central defenders. The same last year where we had something like 11 different defensive formations last season.
I don't want to see this as excuses though, because for me they have been discussed to death on the forum. Therefore if we can spot the problem, surely Wenger et al can do as well.

So for me, it starts with a LB who's going to stay fit (and I hate the fact we may be giving up on Gibbs, but don't think we have any option), a midfielder who's defensively minded but still capable of attacking (Could TV play this role?)

We then move onto the conversation around tactics and the GK issues...

[g88ner]

Personally I think ManUres defence has been worse than ours this year

Yeah, possibly. Their options in attack are saving them most weeks though. Sadly, we don't have anywhere near the same options in attack and therefore we NEED our defence to get a grip! these preventable errors are killing us!

[SteveO 35]

Personally I think ManUres defence has been worse than ours this year

Yeah, possibly. Their options in attack are saving them most weeks though. Sadly, we don't have anywhere near the same options in attack and therefore we NEED our defence to get a grip! these preventable errors are killing us!

So you're saying we should take a leaf out of West Brom's book mate?

[Vinny1967]

Agree with others about the Goalkeeper situation. Having a calamity waiting to happen behind you leads you to divert concentration elsewhere as in the back of your mind your thinking he is going to let you down.

Disagree with others about the zonal marking as I personally think this is Boulds idea. Really have no idea how much influence Bould is let have though. Pre season and early season there were interviews from players remarking on the good work he has been doing and then rumours of a bust up between himself and Wenger. Only one winner there.

For me I think Wenger likes to let his teams develop themselves with gentle guidance. For me the team was developing nicely and learning to play together prior to the previous Intl break. Have no clue what happened but the team have not put in a performance since then.

The midfield has been shocking when the reality is we should be over running teams. If our mid is not playing well it is hard to defend properly. That really doesn't account for individual errors like Verm or Kos have achieved.

I think there is something wrong in the camp and they are playing like individuals. Gibbs has been a loss but apart from that we have good players in our defence. I can see a bust up in the dressing room coming and I hope quickly as they need to start communicating better and if it needs a a good few fcuks thrown at each other to get there so be it.

[SteveO 35]

I listen to all this stuff about 'zonal marking' and I think its an over-simplification of what happens. If no fucker is prepared to actually get their bloody feet off the ground and jump it can be whatever 'system' you like and the result will be the same

The truth of the matter is that we just don't have any aerially commanding physical CBs. TV5 tries but is the smallest of the lot, and Koscielny and the non-jumping German are more interesting in being the technicians that Wenger bangs on about.

The best defensive header of the ball in the side is Le Chapman when he goes back there to help out. None of the defenders are any good in the air. Ask them to man mark and they'll be just as shite. Koscielny tried man marking Torres for the Chavs first goal at the Bowl - didn't work any better

Sadly Lord Wenger doesn't believe in the rougher side of defending and I suspect Uncle Bouldie is being steered down that path by the bloke who's worked in football for 30 years