What is wrong with our defence?

[spendsum4uckingmoney]

Even Steve Bould can't save it. That seems to negate the theory that its the coaching because we've heard a lot about Boulds defensive discipline training over the pre season. Is it a lack of talent? I find that hard to believe. Merty has had like 90 caps for Germany. I mean GERMANY! : Look up the word efficiency and you will find black red and yellow. Kosch and Verm have proven themselves imo and Sagna is one of the best RB in the world if not the best. Ok Santos is a car crash but we shouldn't be conceeding so many sloppy goals.

IMO I still think its the training. We've been conceding from a lot of set pieces, as usual, but we have height now. I also think we miss Song. He may not have been the typical anchor midfielder but he was the closest we had to it.

I am also not happy with our GK's.

[DB10GOONER]

I don't think Bouldy has a free hand tbh. I really struggle to see him being behind the zonal marking debacle. I could be wrong, but I think Wenger is calling the shots...

[highburyJD]

obviously there are many issues but the elephant in the room issue for me is goalies
it feels to me that Wenger hasn't ever really attached that much importance to the position
like winning points through goalkeeper performances would be cheating

the main thing Wenger looks for seems to be personality:
Seaman, a leader, arguably kept on too long which meant we lost Manninger
Almunia given so many chances because he was a popular lad in the dressing room

was chatting with my cousin about this - which goalies that Wenger has signed had you even heard of?
just Lehman (one great season), Wright (terrible) and Poom (played once)...

that's pretty amazing considering how long he's been about
We even had THREE keepers (Taylor, Seaman, Wright) win Prem medals in 02
Manninger, Shabaan, Almunia all came as unknowns
Taylor, Fabianski, Mannone, Szcesney youth players

does not help the confidence of defenders having unreliable keepers behind them

[spendsum4uckingmoney]

obviously there are many issues but the elephant in the room issue for me is goalies
it feels to me that Wenger hasn't ever really attached that much importance to the position
like winning points through goalkeeper performances would be cheating

the main thing Wenger looks for seems to be personality:
Seaman, a leader, arguably kept on too long which meant we lost Manninger
Almunia given so many chances because he was a popular lad in the dressing room

was chatting with my cousin about this - which goalies that Wenger has signed had you even heard of?
just Lehman (one great season), Wright (terrible) and Poom (played once)...

that's pretty amazing considering how long he's been about
We even had THREE keepers (Taylor, Seaman, Wright) win Prem medals in 02
Manninger, Shabaan, Almunia all came as unknowns
Taylor, Fabianski, Mannone, Szcesney youth players

does not help the confidence of defenders having unreliable keepers behind them

You have a good point about confidence. It doesn't matter how you get the clean sheet just that you get it. Clean sheets give defenders confidence.

[spendsum4uckingmoney]

I don't think Bouldy has a free hand tbh. I really struggle to see him being behind the zonal marking debacle. I could be wrong, but I think Wenger is calling the shots...

There was a rumour about a month ago that the two had a falling out over how they should defend. I'm not sure who it was but I think it was an ex gunner.

[highburyJD]

think it was Robson (which makes me instantly suspicious)
I read somewhere it was during training for his coaches badges Uncle Bouldy took the zonal kool-aid
I think defensive systems can be over analysed - done properly man2man or zonal can work
done badly either can be a shambles

I also have a particular set-piece soap box - I hear people moaning about set piece goals conceded as thought they're somehow WORSE than conceding from open play
giving away soft corners or FKs is very annoying BECAUSE they're intrinsically hard to defend - opposition sends everyone up

[QuartzGooner]

Agree with DB10.
Cannot believe Bould is being given the time he needs with the players, no way that he would stand for what he sees going on.
Then again, it could take a while to sort things out, such are the ingrained bad habits.

Goalkeepers too; a decent keeper gives the defence confidence.

And Santos; might as well have Andre Previn as left back.

[DB10GOONER]

think it was Robson (which makes me instantly suspicious)
I read somewhere it was during training for his coaches badges Uncle Bouldy took the zonal kool-aid
I think defensive systems can be over analysed - done properly man2man or zonal can work
done badly either can be a shambles

I also have a particular set-piece soap box - I hear people moaning about set piece goals conceded as thought they're somehow WORSE than conceding from open play
giving away soft corners or FKs is very annoying BECAUSE they're intrinsically hard to defend - opposition sends everyone up

Agree both can be shambolic if done badly, but Zonal is far harder to do effectively as it requires a far higher level of self-discipline and concentration - it goes against a players instincts to guard a small zone rather than mark the player. Man 2 man is basically stay touch tight and go with him.

[highburyJD]

both Giroud and Terry's goals from corners this weekend came after defenders lost their man
goalscorer used a team mate as a shield and found space
both times the defenders concentrate on the man and lose the ball
both scorers find themselves virtually unmarked in a crowd
I'm not a proponent of one system or the other but those particular 'lost my man' goals are more likely to happen in a man to man system

[donaldo]

was chatting with my cousin about this - which goalies that Wenger has signed had you even heard of?
just Lehman (one great season), Wright (terrible) and Poom (played once)...

Lehmann one great season Here was me thinking he won the FA cup on his own v Utd when they battered us 0-0 and kept 10 clean sheets in a row(a record) in the CL

[Dan_85]

I don't think Bouldy has a free hand tbh. I really struggle to see him being behind the zonal marking debacle. I could be wrong, but I think Wenger is calling the shots...

This.

I'd get the whole lot of Bould, Keown, Adams & GG together coaching them tbh. Tie the back 4 together like they used to, get em practicing offside over & over for hours. No way would Wenger go for that though, they'd never have time to work on their sideways passing

[highburyJD]

in '05 Lehman had an absolutely terrible start
some bizarre, and quite long, run of opposition having a single shot and scoring it - normally an error
(started a trend) 'from then onwards he was rotated in and out with Almunia, depending on who made more errors
hardly a ringing endorsement
when he was first dropped every single Gooner I knew was delighted - he had become a liability

when ManUre battered us in the Cup final Horseface was our best player - missed the target from inside the box about a dozen times
I remember just one good save from that game (admittedly its not a season I've gone back over much)

the CL run record surprises me, I would have expected Almunia to play some of them
I remember an awesome save v Real Madrid, Senderos and Eboue share that record
would you use the same stat to defend them..?

[highburyJD]

I don't think Bouldy has a free hand tbh. I really struggle to see him being behind the zonal marking debacle. I could be wrong, but I think Wenger is calling the shots...

This.

I'd get the whole lot of Bould, Keown, Adams & GG together coaching them tbh. Tie the back 4 together like they used to, get em practicing offside over & over for hours. No way would Wenger go for that though, they'd never have time to work on their sideways passing

surely just getting GG would be cheaper?

[goonersid]

I don't think Bouldy has a free hand tbh. I really struggle to see him being behind the zonal marking debacle. I could be wrong, but I think Wenger is calling the shots...

There was a rumour about a month ago that the two had a falling out over how they should defend. I'm not sure who it was but I think it was an ex gunner.

I thought it was keown or nicholas, was definitely a prominent pundit. Things don't appear to be right with Wenger and Pod either. Maybe that's how he will eventually fall, by an internal rebellion.

[highburyJD]

Podolski played much better, in the same position, early season with Gibbs there
but even then would always be subbed
Verminator is never a left back and Santos is never a footballer