If You Could Choose CL or Prem Title

[SteveO 35]

http://www.totalsportek.com/money/riche ... all-clubs/

Augie - take a look at the list of Europe's top 10 richest clubs and you'll see why people want us to win the CL. Apart from the very 'nouveau riche' from the Etihad, we embarrassingly sit in a group of 1.......the world's 7th richest club and never once in our history have we won that CL.....and we've been in that list for some time now. I agree with g88ner - we will never truly be one of Europe's elite clubs until we can wear that gold star above the crest. I wouldn't even mind if we were suffering near heartbreak a la Dortmund, but we've had 1 final and 1 semi-final despite having been in the thing every year since 1999, and on the odd occasion before that. Quite frankly that's a pathetic return

There are 2 reasons why I slate the bloody thing. Firstly, the Group format has to be the most boring formula known to man, and taking a look at the half empty stadia across Europe and you'll see many people agree. How 6 games can be strung out over 3 months is beyond me, and more often than not we know who the top 2 will be in each group with very few exceptions (before anyone is dull enough to mention our group this year which has reversed a 15 year trend of predictability for once). Secondly, our club's attitude towards the competition is what switches me off to it emotionally now. I liken us to a non-league team in the FA Cup who spend the autumn and winter months battling our way through the qualifying rounds before acceptingly getting a stuffing when the competition goes 'real'....but at least we had a nice day out eh ?

However, if the club's wealth was appropriately managed in an ownership structure that valued football over property, and we had a CEO who demanded more from his manager, and reinvested a substantial chunk of our profits into the playing squad......my interest in the competition would soar again and it would be my clear preference. For now, I fail to see the attraction of Stan earning another £30m a year from it.....but once he's fucked off I hope I can love the thing again as it is without doubt the prize most Gooners want

[augie]

Have to say that I am being harshly judged here and especially when you factor in that 7 other forum members voted the same way

I have NEVER said that I dont want to win it and nor have I said that our omission from the list of clubs that has won it is anything other than embarrassing - what I am saying is that, given a choice at the start of this season, I would have opted for winning the prem league without a seconds hesitation. Had we then won that then quite possibily I would have altered my priorities next season, but for the here and now I feel that domestic league success will serve the club better as a foundation going forward, and I fail to see how that viewpoint can be seen as radical or nuts especially cos I aint the only one

g88ner I agree with everything you say about the reasons why we all slate the champs league except for one point that you make......the history - the history to which you romantically refer to is from the old european cup and that competition is nothing like the current champs league. You said yourself that the current competition is nothing except a financially driven competition, and to tie that in with the old champs league is (in my opinion) a tad disrespectful to the old european cup.

Btw self pity is not something that I am wallowing in - our position and status is self inflicted (by the club) and that makes me angry not feel sorry for myself. Anybody that remembers back to win the chavs got to their first couple of finals, the sentiment on here was "please dont let them be the first london club to win it" and the fact that a no history scumbag club won the thing before us def is a stain on the club imo. If anything those fans that express the "woe is us that never won it" are as guilty of showing self pity as I am, but then again it is easier to lambast the sole voice (not sole vote mind) who differs from the majority

[rodders999]

CL for me, I'm still tormented by Paris '06 so there's unfinished business with ol' big ears as far as I'm concerned. I'm front of line in taking the piss out of the CL on here with regard to glamour ties against the likes of Dynamo Zagreb and Apoel Nicosia but when it gets to the knockout stages it's the pinnacle of club football in the world.

Beat Madrid in the quarters, Munich in the semis and get revenge on Barca in the final, that's the dream ticket for me. Can't wait for Pep to get us there in 2017

[Gunner Rob]

i have gone for the Premier League title because lets be honest we are so far away from ever winning the Champions League that I can't even get my head around the idea - with or without Wenger as manager.

at present the Premier League is a pale shadow of what it once was. Until quality improves in the league in general no english club is going to get close. The clock is also starting to tick on us regaining the league title. It is already 11 years and counting.
We have never gone more than 18 years without winning the league for over 100 years, so the pressure is going to increase over the next few years if we dont do it again soon...

[casgooner]

Ok, I was going to say that if you'd asked me between 2005 to 2010, I'd have said Cl, but we have been so far off the pace in the league for years, that I want to win the PL. I have read the arguments for or against either trophy and I have now decided -


I want both!!!! Let's do the precious double.

[Peeman]

Premier League for me. Especially in recent years when we haven't won it for ages. Perhaps back in 05 after we had won the PL a few times in recent seasons I would accept that a CL would be great and perhaps I'd sacrifice the league.

The year The Victims won it - did that make them the best team in Europe ?

After finishing 5th in their league domestic league.
Scraped out of their group.
Scored a goal that wasn't against Chavs in Semi Final
Don't even want to think about the final.

IMO no it did not make them the best team in Europe. It meant that they won a "cup competition" that underdogs and inferior teams have won in the past and will do in the future.

The best team will always win the league but obviously would love to win CL if league was out of our reach.

[augie]

Premier League for me. Especially in recent years when we haven't won it for ages. Perhaps back in 05 after we had won the PL a few times in recent seasons I would accept that a CL would be great and perhaps I'd sacrifice the league.

The year The Victims won it - did that make them the best team in Europe ?

After finishing 5th in their league domestic league.
Scraped out of their group.
Scored a goal that wasn't against Chavs in Semi Final
Don't even want to think about the final.

IMO no it did not make them the best team in Europe. It meant that they won a "cup competition" that underdogs and inferior teams have won in the past and will do in the future.

The best team will always win the league but obviously would love to win CL if league was out of our reach.

Echoes almost everything I have said, so you can expect to be slated in the very near future

[armchair]

Who cares really about whether Liverpool were the best team in Europe or not? History will show they were European Champions. The best team doesnt always win. Fuck Liverpool. They have absolutely nothing to do with the question in this poll. We won trophies under Graham when we wern't the best team in the competition in manys eyes. Who gave a fcuk then? Not me.

Ideally we'd all like to go back to the old European Cup format instead of this bloated, somewhat boring competition but thats not happening and this European Champions League Trophy is the next best thing. We may be an elite club in many ways - history, support, class, fans, cash rich etc but until we win Europes top club competition, whatever format it may take, we are only pretenders.

How can gooners complain that after moving from Highbury to the Emirates we dont "compete with Europes elite" as promised and then in the next breath maintain that you'd rather win a domestic trophy than Europes most elite trophy anyway?

Nuts!

[LeftfootlegendGooner]

Have to say that I am being harshly judged here and especially when you factor in that 7 other forum members voted the same way

I have NEVER said that I dont want to win it and nor have I said that our omission from the list of clubs that has won it is anything other than embarrassing - what I am saying is that, given a choice at the start of this season, I would have opted for winning the prem league without a seconds hesitation. Had we then won that then quite possibily I would have altered my priorities next season, but for the here and now I feel that domestic league success will serve the club better as a foundation going forward, and I fail to see how that viewpoint can be seen as radical or nuts especially cos I aint the only one

g88ner I agree with everything you say about the reasons why we all slate the champs league except for one point that you make......the history - the history to which you romantically refer to is from the old european cup and that competition is nothing like the current champs league. You said yourself that the current competition is nothing except a financially driven competition, and to tie that in with the old champs league is (in my opinion) a tad disrespectful to the old european cup.

Btw self pity is not something that I am wallowing in - our position and status is self inflicted (by the club) and that makes me angry not feel sorry for myself. Anybody that remembers back to win the chavs got to their first couple of finals, the sentiment on here was "please dont let them be the first london club to win it" and the fact that a no history scumbag club won the thing before us def is a stain on the club imo. If anything those fans that express the "woe is us that never won it" are as guilty of showing self pity as I am, but then again it is easier to lambast the sole voice (not sole vote mind) who differs from the majority

Tbh Augie I voted the pl but watching the argument unfold I have decided that I am changing my mind

It's your fault tbf, had you put up a better argument I might have jumped in to assist you

[Clash]

I agree with a lot of what augie says about this.

The fact you can now finish 4th in your league and win the CL the following season has devalued the achievement for me - even if ironically, the standard of opponents in the latter stages might be tougher. Liverpool have been in 2 CL finals in the last 10 seasons while not winning the league for 25 years. That does not sit right with me.

And also the fact that we never won the old European Cup will always be a black mark on our otherwise glorious history. Yet we only got 2 opportunities to do it the classic, traditional way. 'In 1972 and 1992. George Graham had a chance to be even more of a legend.

[QuartzGooner]

Great post by G88ner.

Not having won the CL is a burden.

Once we have won it, then let's go and win the Premier League as much as we can, chase down Man Utd's record number of wins, try and win it four times in a row to show consistency, but my personal opinion is that as a club we NEED to win the Champions League to enhance our status and bring up up to par with our domestic rivals.

[DB10GOONER]

I agree with most of what augie says. My views on the CL are; we should not be in it. No one should be in it unless they are champions. It's a shit bloated boring league.

BUT;

I want us to win it even just once to get that particular monkey off our back. After that? I couldn't give a flying fuck about the CL. PL every day for me.

I also agree the chav$ have cheapened it. A no mark little club with no history and a debt of over £80million gets pimped by a bored Russian gangsta and buys the PL and then a few seasons later they are "kings of Europe". Fuck off. That is everything that is wrong with modern football right there.

[Bradywasking]

I agree with most of what augie says. My views on the CL are; we should not be in it. No one should be in it unless they are champions. It's a shit bloated boring league.

BUT;

I want us to win it even just once to get that particular monkey off our back. After that? I couldn't give a flying fuck about the CL. PL every day for me.

I also agree the chav$ have cheapened it. A no mark little club with no history and a debt of over £80million gets pimped by a bored Russian gangsta and buys the PL and then a few seasons later they are "kings of Europe". Fuck off. That is everything that is wrong with modern football right there.

While I agree with what you are saying DB ,but the fact that Chelsea bought the PL and subsequently the CL is the excuse that Arsenal and Arsene have fallen back on too often and in turn has helped create the comfort zone of mediocrity at our club. Chavs money may have cheapened football or the title of champions of England or Europe , but it has also given Arsenal an excuse not to bother competing.
For me it has to be Premier League first followed by Champions league, I won't complain too loudly if it happens the other way around. I suppose us "older traditionalist" fans find the idea of a Champions league /European Cup not necessarily containing champions hard. Young fans may wonder what the fuss is about.

[augie]

Great post by G88ner.

Not having won the CL is a burden.

Once we have won it, then let's go and win the Premier League as much as we can, chase down Man Utd's record number of wins, try and win it four times in a row to show consistency, but my personal opinion is that as a club we NEED to win the Champions League to enhance our status and bring up up to par with our domestic rivals.

In what way quartz ? Do you think that we will stop selling our best players every time a rich club comes a knocking ? Do you believe that the mentality of the club will change and that aiming for top 4 will no longer suffice ? Do you believe that it will put us on a par with the elite clubs when it comes to battling for the top players ?
You refer how winning it will bring us on a par with our domestic rivals, but the reality is that the only reason anyone would view the chavs and citeeh as being above us because of their wealth, and nobody in the world would see us as a team that is beneath the victims

[armchair]

Have no time for the money argument. We cant compete with Chelsea and City. All to often used as an excuse by Wenger and his supporters fo underachieving.

If Chelsea have devalued the CL surely they have devalued the Prem too? And the FA Cup? And every other competition with their dirrrrrrrrty money. We should just play sunday league now. Surely it cant be tainted by new money.

Build a bridge lads and get over it. Its far from perfect and sometimes quite shit but lets not get all snobish and aloof about it. Until we win it we are not up there with Europes elite where we should be.