Chill out - we can't change things. What will be, will be.

[Iceman29]

That's a very simple answer. I have no problem with the board because in my opinion they are doing a fantastic job, the results of which may or may not be visible now but will definately be visible in the future. I also believe that the board are not greedy but have a right to make money on their investment otherwise why invest. If I were a major investor I would want the best possible returns, whether in the form of dividends or capital gains.

I don't disagree at all, except for the belief that that Board have deliberately mis-led supporters about the motives behind their actions and denibeertalely undertaken actions they knew would weaken to football team to enrich themselves even fruther than they could have been had they taken actions that did not weaken the football team.

It is no different than a car maker knowing using defective car parts to save money increase profits and further enrich shareholders. It is cheating the customer lying to the customer, and albeit on a much more serious scale than in Arsena's case haming the customer and hurting them deeply.

This not in fact a case of psend more and Arsenal ends up like Leeds but spend less and the Board gets richer by the looks of it. And the whole idea that the Board even suggest the former scenario shows how far they will go to frighten supporters into not questioning them.

To me this is about the Board's greed rather than Arsenal's long-term survival. The latter is basically assured whether a spend a bit more or not.

The only way I will have a problem with the board is that if they saddle us with debt and threaten the existence of the club which is not the case for me at the moment. For me that is more important than winning trophies especially if such winning comes at the cost of sacrificing the viability of the club

Keep that in mind because it may well happen. The problem is it will be too late to have a problem then, won't it? At the very least no one will care that you care then, will they? And it won't even help you a whole lot then. Read what Brian Moore told the socusers - he's dead right, adn my signature suggests he telll us - and you - the same if we end up facing the same fate. Something to ponder I'd imagine.

Point noted! Thank you! Have a good day!

[olgitgooner]

Re USM's answer to olgit's question "specifically what lies has the board told us?".....(apparently we are not speaking to each other, these days )..........

that really wasn't a proper definative answer.

The board assured us that the stadium move would not affect spending on players......you may well be correct, but you have no proof whatsoever that the lack of spending is not down to our spendthrift manager. Where is the lie?

I could go on, boringly, to pick holes in your arguments.

It's all too tiresome.

Let's assume that you are absolutely correct in all your assertions.

If you were a major shareholder and board member would you take any notice at all of a non-shareholder who is trying to tell you how to behave?

No you wouldn't.

Would you be bothered about a petition (with twelve signatories or twelve thousand) ?

No you wouldn't.

I've called you out as a troll.

It doesn't matter that you are a geniune Arsenal supporter.

A troll is an individual who subverts various threads to suit his own agenda.

A troll is an individual who draws people into long, pointless and needless argument (which they generally would prefer not to be involved in).

Why can't you just give it a rest? Talk about football matters, instead of politics.

[QuartzGooner]

USM

The board assured us that the stadium move would not affect spending on players......you may well be correct, but you have no proof whatsoever that the lack of spending is not down to our spendthrift manager.
Where is the lie?

I've called you out as a troll.

It doesn't matter that you are a genuine Arsenal supporter.

A troll is an individual who subverts various threads to suit his own agenda.

A troll is an individual who draws people into long, pointless and needless argument (which they generally would prefer not to be involved in).

Spot on.

(And the sale of shares since 2005 might just have something to do with Kroenke and Usmanov offering vast money to invest in the growing market of Premiership football at a time of worldwide recession?! It is not a crime to sell shares.)


USM is a troll.
He insults, lies, repeats arguments, repeats threads, twists words and misquotes to "force" others to respond so that their views are not misrepresented.

[USMartin]

You can make anything out of quotes.

Wenger said this:

"When the stadium has been paid for the club will be bigger than before, with greater active capital because of it."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... z12BSZL41J


Backs up what the Board said, if you wish to interpret it so. (except Dein, who was not in favour of the stadium).

Judge the overall long term picture by what has happened, not quotes and soundbites.

Gazidis said this recently, it is backed up by what we see on the pitch:


"The money we generate goes back into the Club, so no money goes out in the form of dividends. A certain proportion of that goes into the development of our infrastructure, so the development and progression of the training ground is there, the progression and the investment in the stadium. We are also investing in our commercial capability.

But again, most of that goes back into the playing side, whether into player contracts or transfer fees. Now that doesn’t mean we can compete at the level of the Manchester Citys of this world in the transfer market, because those types of fees and those types of salaries are not sustainable for any football business. But it still means, I believe, that we can compete with them on the pitch. We do have a policy of building and not buying, and that’s a difficult path to tread sometimes."

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archiv ... al-results

No Quartz - you can make anything out of quotes when they don't support your religious zealotry about the Board. I cannot I can only let quotes speak for themselves. And if I could I would not because that is not honest and I prefer to be honest.

You can and have consistently made what you wanted about anything - falesly conflating projects, deliberately omitting facts, believing blogs relying on rumors rather than eyewitness accounts, and defending the Board in every instance and never once actually holding it to blame for anything.

To be able to make what I want out of quotes I would have to be like you and how you present things. I am not like you at all except I love Arsenal. But I also have some regard for the truth. You in your failure to be objective at any point about the Board do not show much if any regard for the truth as I said earlier and that is why I no longer view you as credible on these matters.

All you can do is level deliberately false allegations against me because you cannot be honest yourself in your overly passionate defence of every action our Board takes, and we both know that don't we?

Sorry mate but every word you wrote there describing Quartz could easily have been describing you.

You seem incapable of accepting that perhaps the board are not just in this for a quick buck and will not saddle us with debt.

I can accept it is possible. But that its possible doesn't make it likely, does it, and unless you're going to say the Board making millions selling shares since 2007 was purely coincidental and that all this money supposedly available to the manager going uspent during the same period was purely coincidental, I don't know what else you can say other than you don't want to believe anything but that our Board are supporters like us or something.

I'd rather believe you were right really. Would have saved me tons of stick, stress, and aggravation(and typing _), imagine what it would do for you . The problem is I simply don't at this point and haven't for sometime because the Board have not been honest about a number of things and continue not to be. It's that simple..

Does that mean I am right in the end? I don't honestly know. I may in fact be wrong. The problem is I may be right as well, and right now we can't afford that. Arsenal can't and all of uswho love Arsenal can't afford that either. That's why ought to know and ought to want to know more now. It will be too late to protest later.

[olgitgooner]

A quick question.

Have trolls been banned from here before?

[USMartin]

Re USM's answer to olgit's question "specifically what lies has the board told us?".....(apparently we are not speaking to each other, these days )..........

that really wasn't a proper definative answer.

The board assured us that the stadium move would not affect spending on players......you may well be correct, but you have no proof whatsoever that the lack of spending is not down to our spendthrift manager. Where is the lie?

I could go on, boringly, to pick holes in your arguments.

It's all too tiresome.

Let's assume that you are absolutely correct in all your assertions.

If you were a major shareholder and board member would you take any notice at all of a non-shareholder who is trying to tell you how to behave?

No you wouldn't.

Would you be bothered about a petition (with twelve signatories or twelve thousand) ?

No you wouldn't.

I've called you out as a troll.

It doesn't matter that you are a geniune Arsenal supporter.

A troll is an individual who subverts various threads to suit his own agenda.

A troll is an individual who draws people into long, pointless and needless argument (which they generally would prefer not to be involved in).

Why can't you just give it a rest? Talk about football matters, instead of politics.

No just ignore me if you're too tired - oh that's right you can't because defending our Board no matter what is what this is about.

You aren't fooling me - you can't pick holes in my argument or trust me you'd have found the energy to do it. Like I say you can't fool me. You can't pick them apart or you would. You just can't admit it either.

As to the spend-thrift manager theory, why wasn't he so spend-thrift from 1998-2005? Was the Board forcing him to spend more? And if that's the case why did they suddenly stop then? Or why wasn't he sacked when he decided to ignore his employers after 2005 then? Or wali - was this all pure coincidence again?

The coincidence you have to believe in if you believe the lack of spending and the increased profits and share price they have cashed on wasn't down to the Board first and last.

And if the Board isn't going to listen to us anyway why would you trust them to act in Arsenal's - or anyone's - best interests other than their own, and why you defend them as custodains of the club if you beleiev that?

[olgitgooner]

Gobbledeegoop.

A rant based on non-data.

And assumptions about my personal opinions which have no basis in fact.

I guess you're probably happy, though. You have managed to engage me in a total waste of my time. Troll.

[QuartzGooner]

2005+ Chelsea and Man Utd getting expensive players and forcing transfer fees up?

Might just help explain things a bit too?


Any semblance of respect for USMartin as a fellow fan has long gone since he decided to insult and question the integrity of those who oppose or even question his views.

The rest of USMartin's life will be spent on forums baiting people because he is a troll.

[olgitgooner]

Martin, I reckon you have nearly exhausted this source of amusement/self-gratification.

If you really want to indulge yourself, may I suggest pastures new?

Hit on a new Gooner site where you would be welcome with open arms. And a sympathetic audience.

Try this one......

http://www.wearetheherd.com/forum/

they would just love you over there.

[USMartin]

Gobbledeegoop.

A rant based on non-data.

And assumptions about my personal opinions which have no basis in fact.

I guess you're probably happy, though. You have managed to engage me in a total waste of my time. Troll.

I haven't angaged you in anything, mate. You have to chosen to involve yourself her. Or are so incompeetent that you can't control actions or choices.

As I say you don't fool me.

[USMartin]

2005+ Chelsea and Man Utd getting expensive players and forcing transfer fees up?

Might just help explain things a bit too?


Any semblance of respect for USMartin as a fellow fan has long gone since he decided to insult and question the integrity of those who oppose or even question his views.

The rest of USMartin's life will be spent on forums baiting people because he is a troll.

Suits me fine Quartz.

Though I 'd suggest since it took a you about a week to charge I was a stooge for a takeover group you didn't respect me then let alone now, so I can't be too arsed about you announcing what anyone whoo read your comments to and about me some time ago.

As for the rest of anyone's life yours will be spent making excuses for the Board or yourself for trusting them.

The bottom line is that you don't care about the truth you care about your faith in what Arsenal - and what the Arsenal Board - stand for. You can pretend you don't care but in four months here what you CAN'T do is show me ONE example that proves that wrong.

[USMartin]

USM

The board assured us that the stadium move would not affect spending on players......you may well be correct, but you have no proof whatsoever that the lack of spending is not down to our spendthrift manager.
Where is the lie?

I've called you out as a troll.

It doesn't matter that you are a genuine Arsenal supporter.

A troll is an individual who subverts various threads to suit his own agenda.

A troll is an individual who draws people into long, pointless and needless argument (which they generally would prefer not to be involved in).

Spot on.

(And the sale of shares since 2005 might just have something to do with Kroenke and Usmanov offering vast money to invest in the growing market of Premiership football at a time of worldwide recession?! It is not a crime to sell shares.)


USM is a troll.
He insults, lies, repeats arguments, repeats threads, twists words and misquotes to "force" others to respond so that their views are not misrepresented.

Force you to respond? You little wuus. Nobody forces you to do anything unless as I said earlier you are mentally and psychologically incapable of controlling your own actions and choices. Stop blaming anyone else for your choices you twit. Yopu are resposible for your own behavior and no one else the same as me. When one of you calls me out pr posts something out order aboout me - its my choice and my alone to address. I'm adulty enough not to blame other people for my actions and choices. Perhpas it should be little surprise you aren't.

You sound someone who blames everyone else for your bad choices really and that's distastteful to say the least.

[olgitgooner]

Gobbledeegoop.

A rant based on non-data.

And assumptions about my personal opinions which have no basis in fact.

I guess you're probably happy, though. You have managed to engage me in a total waste of my time. Troll.

I haven't angaged you in anything, mate. You have to chosen to involve yourself her. Or are so incompeetent that you can't control actions or choices.

As I say you don't fool me.

You calling ME incompetent!!!

[USMartin]

Gobbledeegoop.

A rant based on non-data.

And assumptions about my personal opinions which have no basis in fact.

I guess you're probably happy, though. You have managed to engage me in a total waste of my time. Troll.

I haven't angaged you in anything, mate. You have to chosen to involve yourself her. Or are so incompeetent that you can't control actions or choices.

As I say you don't fool me.

You calling ME incompetent!!!

Yes - I'm a shite speller and crap typist and you apparently are incompetent since you can't help yourself and can't control your interaction with me,and can't choose whether or not get involved on your own.

By the way its funny how you don't have the energy to pick apart my arguments but are still here still arguing and still getting links to other sites to post since saying that. Am I missing something here? I mean if you were dead tired - and you should be looking at the time - go to bed and make your case tommorrow, no? Except there is no real case to make at this point is there. None more than you already have made apparently, anyway.

I hope my spelling and typing are btter all the same

EDIT HAHAHAHAHAHA right at the death

[xDAVEYx]

oh my god

martin, buy a share and then you can have a say

we no longer have any interest in your incessant rants about a group of people who are not answerable to you, or me, or any non-shareholder.

YOU HAVE NO VOICE IN THESE MATTERS SO BUY SOME AND LEAVE US ALONE