How Arsenal have changed.

Post by **DB10GOONER** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 12:51 pm

Number 5 wrote:Bringing it back to the badge/crest issue.

Didn't that change because there was no copyright on the old one, or it ran out or something?

I vaguely recall the Club shutting down some stallholder who was using the old badge on merchandise.

Wankers.

They never had a copyright on it because they couldn't. The old crest "evolved" over a period of decades from diferent sources. By designing the new crest from scratch they were able to copyright it and thus stop poor old stall holders making a few quid...

Vince · Post by **Vince** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 12:51 pm

It's exactly the same for every Big Clubs in the world.
You can't be a Great Club, every seasons at the top level in Champion's League and Premier League .. and stay like a middle table Club of Premier League. The Club needed evolution to stay at the top level so we definitely needed a bigger stadium. Today, I don't know a Great European Club with a 40'000 stadium capacity (except Chelsea).

It's exactly the same for the rest .. football has changed, there's much more money involved in the game (tv rights, etc ...) and if a Club wants to stay at the top level, he needs to make some sacrifices, to get rid of a bit of the tradition in order to make more money.

BUT .. I agree for the shirt, there's no point changing the colours every seasons. They could still make new shirts every season but with the real Arsenal colours.
For the Logo, it's different, every Club has now a simplified logo because it's not only printed on the shirt and on the Stadium but in all sort of things. And it needs to be as simple as possible. That's the most important thing for any logo. I love the old one, I got the cannon from the old one tattooed on my arm, but it was a needed evolution. But They definitely should have done it differently.

I hope you get my point despite my poor english

The Club needed evolution, but it was a bit too much changes in a few years. The Club seems to be aware about that, they are trying to make the Emirates more like Arsenal's home, more traditional. I hope it's just a beginning.

digger · Post by **digger** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 12:55 pm

DB10GOONER wrote:They never had a copyright on it because they couldn't. The old crest "evolved" over a period of decades from diferent sources. By designing the new crest from scratch they were able to copyright it and thus stop poor old stall holders making a few quid...

Yet it's still available at all good market stalls near you. I'm sure 90% of that stuff is "fake". If anything, the new badge is easier to copy... the other one was far more intricate.

Post by **DB10GOONER** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 1:16 pm

digger wrote:
DB10GOONER wrote:They never had a copyright on it because they couldn't. The old crest "evolved" over a period of decades from diferent sources. By designing the new crest from scratch they were able to copyright it and thus stop poor old stall holders making a few quid...
Yet it's still available at all good market stalls near you. I'm sure 90% of that stuff is "fake". If anything, the new badge is easier to copy... the other one was far more intricate.

Agreed. But for the club it wasn't about how easy to copy it is, it's about "complete ownership" and being able to prosecute anyone infringing that copyright by using the crest. I wonder how strictly they enforce it on the stallholders...? Has anyone ended up in court?

littlefire · Post by **littlefire** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 3:58 pm

digger wrote:but I'd much rather be squinting behind one of those pillars in the East stand with someone standing on my foot.

Ah, the boiler room.

I saw some classics over the years down there when I couldn't get to the NB. Shit I think I was somewhere in there when there was 64,000 odd v Manure. My feet never touched the ground.

And no one left early.

This Is The Daybreak · Wed Oct 07, 2009 4:00 pm

I can see what you're saying in your argument but there are flaws in there.

As much as I and a lot of us miss Highbury we sadly had to move on. I don't know the full story of when Highbury was redeveloped in 1993 but it always seemed to me that they made it a bit disjointed. They should have had a massive stand complimenting the North Bank instead of the tiny Clock End, this may have been Arsenal not being able to get planning permision to build a stand but if there was a two tier stand as big as the North Bank as our Clock End it would have surely taken the Stadium up to 45-50,000.

Anyone remember the nightmare of non season ticket holders trying to get into games at Highbury, all morning on the phones, missing out on big games and often getting a letterbox view in the east stand. I dont miss these days.

38,500 was Highbury and one of the greatest teams the world has ever seen (The invincibles) played in a ground that was smaller than Man Utds, Sunderlands, Newcastles, Liverpool, Aston Villa, Chelsea, Sheffield Wednesdays and Everton. We had a ground the same capacity as Spurs, and being a superior club in every aspect deserves a far bigger capacity stadium.

I really dislike this rosetinted view that Highbury was a cauldren of noise every week. Even in the all seater era there were games where less than 30,000 would be there. OK in the Wenger era Juventus, Real Madrid, Everton (98), games against Man Utd, Tottenham games the ground would be loud but I dont remember Wimbledon or Derby being very atmospheric in the same way Wigan and Portsmouth and atmospheric now. I do remember Man Utd (2006), Chelsea (2007), AC Milan (2008), Tottenham games, The first 10 minutes of that semi against Man Utd all being very loud. Arsenal fans have always only made a noise when the team needed it I find.

And the kit was a marketing mistake granted, have heard it is the worst selling Arsenal home shirt ever and the bored will change it after this season back to our traditional colours (they couldn't be THAT stupid, or could they?)

Exiled-Gooner · Post by **Exiled-Gooner** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 5:52 pm

Regret i had a few to few too mention...but during my drinking i recollect the times at highbury of 50,000,getting and giving the terrace leg(oldgit you should remember the leg)in the clockend,the constant chanting even though we would never really challenge for the title but it was HOME.

The tradition the Highbury oozed,the presence it portrayed,it was like a magnet for us gooners or a cathedral for us gooners to worship in.The Highbury was our ground ,our domain not like the grove it's BLANK.The surge of us in the clockend to get to the away lot,the northbank a sea of red and white even though we won fuck all,the expectation,the nearly value and of course the young talent on display that brought us FA cups and league titles.

We were never given any expectations or goals to achieve at Highbury really,we hoped christ how we hoped but since money seriously got involved this all changed.Now we have a club thats seems that the goal is financial success than trophy success.But please forgive my rant of reminiscing but the extent of change has been dramatic since the plans for the grove was made public.

don't post when your pissed.

olgitgooner · Post by **olgitgooner** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:43 pm

My opinions on the original post.....

1- "Negative influence" of Arsene Wenger is a complete non-starter.

2- Arsenal badge. It has changed many times over the years. It's not a new concept. The lastest one has a good, clean-cut look. I like it. Except the cannon is facing the wrong way.

3- New stadium. It would have been better to re-vamp the old one. Make it a 60,000 seater (or more). We were not allowed to do it, because of politically-minded fuckwits. The only option was to move. It was a great acheivement for the club. A fantastic new stadium. Delivered on time. And within budget. Unlike Wembley. But the club fucked up (big style) by not directing Northbank and Clock End people to take up seats in "noisy" areas. The Grove atmosphere is sadly lacking. Because of this one oversight. The extra 20,000 people are not all silent theatre-goers. They include people who really appreciate the chance of attending. And who like to make a lot of noise. Shame it's "watered down" by non-singers.

4- Old Arsenal players. Yes they were more loyal and passionate than some of our more recent ones. This is not an Arsenal thing. Modern day players at every club are the same. Sadly.

5- Kit. Totally agree with this criticism. We want red shirts with proper white sleeves. Away kit should NEVER be white or blue shirts.

Post by **REB** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 7:08 pm

i miss highbury, i missed the north bank when it was torn down

but
for all the wrongs the club have done to the support down the years you must realise they were right to move to a bigger stadium because we would have stoodstill at some stage at highbury and turned into spu*s,villa everton etc,, i hope they will learn from some of there mistakes ie the home strip we have now

but they more then likely wont as they continue to be big sellers

as for the badge well to be honest i like it

Yankee_Gooner_Dandee · Wed Oct 07, 2009 7:19 pm

sorry you cant live in the 70s forever. times change. would you rather be milwall?

benglenton · Post by **benglenton** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 7:52 pm

thinking about old times everything changes
maybe in early 70's previous generation of AFC fans would regret about their heroes in 30's and so there until you count the original fathers-founders...now the question is (for my point-of-view) how much are you/we related to specific moment of the history of this Club? maybe you are thinking about 2nd leg vs. anderlecht in fairs cup was the greatest moment of all time because YOU were there, another person would think that Rocky was his most prefered player and the 80's were the greatest years because he was young?!?! and so on...
Highbury is history but history is the version of past events that people have decided to agree upon.
Ashburton Grove is present.
Learn from the past.
Look to the future.
Live in the present.
C'mon the AFC.

Its Up 4 Grabs Now · Post by **Its Up 4 Grabs Now** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:13 pm

benglenton wrote:thinking about old times everything changes
maybe in early 70's previous generation of AFC fans would regret about their heroes in 30's and so there until you count the original fathers-founders...now the question is (for my point-of-view) how much are you/we related to specific moment of the history of this Club? maybe you are thinking about 2nd leg vs. anderlecht in fairs cup was the greatest moment of all time because YOU were there, another person would think that Rocky was his most prefered player and the 80's were the greatest years because he was young?!?! and so on...
Highbury is history but history is the version of past events that people have decided to agree upon.
Ashburton Grove is present.
Learn from the past.
Look to the future.
Live in the present.
C'mon the AFC.