Wenger doesn't know (and never did)

[Percy Dalton]

Frimpong that has played how many first team games?

Sorry, until someone has played maybe 50 games in the first team I do not think they can be held up as any evidence towards outstanding English talent.

Frimpong has pulled up trees in the reserves true but so did Paulo Vernazza. He was going to be something very special apparently!

He now plays for Hemel Hempstead.

Wenger has had no more success, or failures, than any other manager when it comes to developing home grown talent.

[Bendtners Drinking Buddy]

Frimpong that has played how many first team games?

Sorry, until someone has played maybe 50 games in the first team I do not think they can be held up as any evidence towards outstanding English talent.

Frimpong has pulled up trees in the reserves true but so di Paulo Vernazza.

He now plays for Hemel Hempstead.

Wenger has had no more success, or failures, than any other manager when it comes to developing home grown talent.

don't disagree at all - my point is that the "Wenger is anti-English" is a myth - if players were good enough they were given a chance - and in the case of Jeffers, sometimes if they wernt good enough they were given a chance!!

Now, we have a very good set of players that happen to be predomiantly English pushing for first team places as Wenger deems them good enough, i hope that Gibbs inparticular becomes a regular as I think he is better than Clichy - but Wilshire and JET will also get games, as will the likes of Lansbury - whether they will be a success or not is another matter of course!!

But, this has derived from investment in youth facilities, good coaching and good training methods from Wenger and his team - and i think we are seeing the first shoots of a youth academy that will benefit Arsenal for many years to come - footballers who play football!

[Swale_Gooner1985]

The whole point of this is basically saying the only good Wenger has done has been by shear luck and chance! Which quite frankly, is bollocks!

[Percy Dalton]

People do also forget that if a club can get one star player from a group of youth players then that is a perfecctly acceptable ratio.

To get Gibbs and Wilshere through at the same time is almost exceptional.

I am not being disrespectful when I say that half of the younger players I see being raved about on here will be playing for Barnet, Colchester and, like Simpson, Hull.

Being a star in Arsenals reserves means nothing. Ask Connolly, Vernazza, McGowan and Barrett.

[franksav63]

... and Stephen Hughes...

[ramon]

http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/archives/7106

How Wenger has changed football once again

by Tony Attwood

For years there has been a general assumption that there are only three ways of developing a club and two ways of making money out of football.

You can make your club grow (so it was always said) by

Development Method 1) Buying in those who are already acknowledged to be the best players. True you have to pay lots of dosh, but it is obvious, the best players play best, and so you win stuff. This is the traditional English system. Chelsea and Man C still practice it.

Development Method 2) Develop great young talent by running an academy system. This is a lot cheaper than 1) even when it takes eight years to develop a player, but the problem is that it takes a long time to get going. Arsenal are only now seeing the benefits of a youth system set up 8 years ago.

In the past some clubs have hit on a bright group of kiddies by chance (Man U are an example with the Giggs generation, as was Arsenal under Graham when Adams and the rest came through) but doing it year after year was thought impossible – and besides since the average lifespan of a manager at a club is two years or less no one really wants to put his faith in something that won’t mature for eight years.

Development Method 3) Find players who are playing at lesser clubs or in lesser leagues, who you know are great, but whom the rest of the world have not quite recognised. Think Gilberto Silva, bought to Arsenal for £2m, who went on to be captain of Brazil.

This is of course the famous world-wide scouting, and since Wenger’s early triumphs many clubs have sought to use this as a method of recruitment. The problem is that you need a brilliant scouting system and (at the very top) someone who can see the difference between a 16 year old who is knocking them in and who will go on to do the same at the top level, and someone who just looks better than the average kids around him.

So those are the three ways of developing a club – and as we all know Arsène Wenger was the first to make a youth system work (three trophies in the last two years, and the first ever retention of the league by a youth team) and he was the man who invented world-wide scouting.

As for the two ways of making money out of football, these were quite simply

Money Making Method 1) Building up the club, taking on a few debts en route and selling the club on to someone with a load of money. We might think of K. Bates selling to R. Abramovich as an example, although I believe the Chelsea debts at the time of the sale were more than “a fewâ€

[mikeyb772001]

I dont give a feck what he did back in the day. All i know is he has done fuck all since 2005. Apart from line his own pockets and please the board with there targets of him finishing in top 4!
What he has done over the last 6 years, and done well... Is talk utter bollox

[ramon]

I dont give a feck what he did back in the day. All i know is he has done fuck all since 2005. Apart from line his own pockets and please the board with there targets of him finishing in top 4!
What he has done over the last 6 years, and done well... Is talk utter bollox

Fair enough but then you are only realistically looking at 2 clubs - chavs and the debt ridden utd who are incresing their debt as we sepak. success comes at a high price. I think wenger has set this club for the future - the move to the stadium and still being up there was a credit to the manager i say

[AA23Northbank]

I dont give a feck what he did back in the day. All i know is he has done fuck all since 2005. Apart from line his own pockets and please the board with there targets of him finishing in top 4!
What he has done over the last 6 years, and done well... Is talk utter bollox

[ramon]

I dont give a feck what he did back in the day. All i know is he has done fuck all since 2005. Apart from line his own pockets and please the board with there targets of him finishing in top 4!
What he has done over the last 6 years, and done well... Is talk utter bollox

Dont forget lpool who spent like stupid and still no trophy

[Bendtners Drinking Buddy]

I dont give a feck what he did back in the day. All i know is he has done fuck all since 2005. Apart from line his own pockets and please the board with there targets of him finishing in top 4!
What he has done over the last 6 years, and done well... Is talk utter bollox

But earlier on you were agreeing he has never done anything for this club!

As i said, this argument is a poor thought, poorly made and has no credence.

[AA23Northbank]

I dont give a feck what he did back in the day. All i know is he has done fuck all since 2005. Apart from line his own pockets and please the board with there targets of him finishing in top 4!
What he has done over the last 6 years, and done well... Is talk utter bollox

But earlier on you were agreeing he has never done anything for this club!

As i said, this argument is a poor thought, poorly made and has no credence.

All he does is fucking moan tho

[brazilianGOONER]

I dont give a feck what he did back in the day. All i know is he has done fuck all since 2005. Apart from line his own pockets and please the board with there targets of him finishing in top 4!
What he has done over the last 6 years, and done well... Is talk utter bollox

But earlier on you were agreeing he has never done anything for this club!

As i said, this argument is a poor thought, poorly made and has no credence.

let me add some for you then:

[Bendtners Drinking Buddy]

People do also forget that if a club can get one star player from a group of youth players then that is a perfecctly acceptable ratio.

To get Gibbs and Wilshere through at the same time is almost exceptional.

I am not being disrespectful when I say that half of the younger players I see being raved about on here will be playing for Barnet, Colchester and, like Simpson, Hull.

Being a star in Arsenals reserves means nothing. Ask Connolly, Vernazza, McGowan and Barrett.

Correct - and you could even extend that further by saying not only are you lucky to get one make it into the first team, only 2 or 3 might forge careers at the top level elsewhere - id say Wilshire, Lansbury, Gibbs, JET, Frimpong, Bartley and probably one or two more will make it at Arsenal or elsewhere which shows just how good that team is.

[QuartzGooner]

Kanu
Grimandi
Vermaelen
Flamini
Sagna
Clichy

Eduardo (pre-injury, outside of Wenger's control)

Rosetinted glasses on with some of those Quartz, some decent players there fair enough, but that hardly makes them a success story.

Sid, the players you put in bold are not all time greats but were worthwhile and cost effective signings.

Kanu cost little and was great to watch, scored important goals but did go off the boil, but then again, he was about 39 when we bought him!

Grimandi cost little and was a decent hard working midfielder and a good tackler. Could fill in as centre back but I admit he was not too good in defence.

Vermaelen we have only seen for one season but looks good to me. Has potential to be an all time Arsenal great if he stays at club for a while and maintains current form.

Flamini cost relatively little and was poor for two seasons but then showed he was a very good defensive midfielder, we have suffered since he left.

Sagna is a good but not exceptional right back.

Clichy cost little and is a good left back though not as good as Cole or Winterburn were.

Eduardo best natural finisher at club since Henry left, but scuppered by injury, not Wenger's fault.