As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
I don't think we're anything like LIverpool. Firstly they chose to appoint an ex-player on the back of fan power - a ridiculous fucking judgement by new owners who know nothing about English football. In Hodgson they had a far superior coach who was dealing with massive upheavel at the club and needed time. Would he have done any worse than Dalglish - I doubt it - but the fans clamoured for the man who left them in the lurch when he had to build his own team back in the early 90s and he's fucked them over again.
If Arsenal decided to appoint Tony Adams as manager and gave him £100m to waste on rubbish we might be the new Liverpool but until then, we're not.....
One thing I will say for this Arsenal board is that they are true to their convictions. I don't agree with the way the club is run but they stick to what they think is working. If they suddenly starting responding to every call from the fans for the latest fad manager (Martinez FFS ) or some ex-player without a track record I'd be even more worried.
Getting the right manager is key and always will be. Benitez was a good Liverpool manager and they competed; Dalglish wasn't a good Liverpool manager and they didn't. Pardew is doing a good job at Newcastle, McLeash with a similar budget at Villa did not.
Looking at Liverpool you realise how amazing Wenger has been this season.
They spent over £100 million and yet still finished 18 points clear of them!
Liverpool's ambition is to be where Arsenal currently are, yet most people on here moan on that we have had a bad season.
My view on the decision the Liverpool owners took yesterday is that it just reinforces how important the top 4 finish is - winning the Carling and FA Cups is irrelevant. You could argue that if Wenger had concentrated on trying to win one of these this season at the expense of the league he might have been more likely to be sacked.
Red Member wrote:Looking at Liverpool you realise how amazing Wenger has been this season.
They spent over £100 million and yet still finished 18 points clear of them!
Liverpool's ambition is to be where Arsenal currently are, yet most people on here moan on that we have had a bad season.
My view on the decision the Liverpool owners took yesterday is that it just reinforces how important the top 4 finish is - winning the Carling and FA Cups is irrelevant. You could argue that if Wenger had concentrated on trying to win one of these this season at the expense of the league he might have been more likely to be sacked.
More faces than a hexagon ! You billed it as an "unbelievable achievement" a few weeks ago when putting Queen Kenny forward as Manager of the Year and then said that after this season we needed to win a cup as 8 seasons without a trophy was unacceptable
Sorry probably didnt make it clear.
I do think what Kenny did this season was amazing. Liverpool needed to win a trophy and he delivered.
it wasn't good enough though for the owners.
Wenger's genius has already worked this out and that is why he doesnt aim for the domestic trophies any more, as he realises that for the owners they are only interested in the money not the glory. not even Di Matteo is safe. If he doesnt win the CL he will be sacked as he failed to secure the all important top 4.
Wenger however next season has a problem - he needs to do both - top 4 and a cup and that wont be easy and that is why I would like to see the fat russian able to invest in the team.
Red Member wrote:Sorry probably didnt make it clear.
I do think what Kenny did this season was amazing. Liverpool needed to win a trophy and he delivered.
it wasn't good enough though for the owners.
Wenger's genius has already worked this out and that is why he doesnt aim for the domestic trophies any more, as he realises that for the owners they are only interested in the money not the glory. not even Di Matteo is safe. If he doesnt win the CL he will be sacked as he failed to secure the all important top 4.
Wenger however next season has a problem - he needs to do both - top 4 and a cup and that wont be easy and that is why I would like to see the fat russian able to invest in the team.
I don't think Arshavin has got much money left to invest after complaining about the British tax regime
If you mean the fat Uzbek, then of course I would agree with you
Slating liverpool as a club that are living in the past is more than a little ironic coming from us Gooners - they at least showed a willingness to be ruthless with a former hero who hasnt been managing well whilst we stick by a manager that continues to mis-manage but lives off the back of previous glories You tell me which club is trying to be more progressive and move forward
augie wrote:Slating liverpool as a club that are living in the past is more than a little ironic coming from us Gooners - they at least showed a willingness to be ruthless with a former hero who hasnt been managing well whilst we stick by a manager that continues to mis-manage but lives off the back of previous glories You tell me which club is trying to be more progressive and move forward
But Wenger is delivering for the board. Gets them the top 4 trophy and banks another £25m in CL revenues every year, puts up with selling our best players and replacing them with also-rans - its a relationship that works perfectly for both Wenger and the board. He is on his job-for-life retirement plan pocketing £6m a year with no ambition to win anything ever again and under no pressure to do so - unlike if he moved to a winning club like Real Madrid. He's not daft, that's why he sits here picking up the salary.The Board meanwhile are delighted that they don't have an ambitious younger manager who would want to invest more in players rather than lining Kroenke's pockets, as it fits perfectly for their 2-3 year plan of maximising cash returns before selling it to the next highest bidder
augie wrote:Slating liverpool as a club that are living in the past is more than a little ironic coming from us Gooners - they at least showed a willingness to be ruthless with a former hero who hasnt been managing well whilst we stick by a manager that continues to mis-manage but lives off the back of previous glories You tell me which club is trying to be more progressive and move forward
But Wenger is delivering for the board. Gets them the top 4 trophy and banks another £25m in CL revenues every year, puts up with selling our best players and replacing them with also-rans - its a relationship that works perfectly for both Wenger and the board. He is on his job-for-life retirement plan pocketing £6m a year with no ambition to win anything ever again and under no pressure to do so - unlike if he moved to a winning club like Real Madrid. He's not daft, that's why he sits here picking up the salary.The Board meanwhile are delighted that they don't have an ambitious younger manager who would want to invest more in players rather than lining Kroenke's pockets, as it fits perfectly for their 2-3 year plan of maximising cash returns before selling it to the next highest bidder
They are perfect for each other.
This is so true. I believe if we had had a season like liverpool ie 8th and losing as many games as we won Wenger would be under pressure too but as we ended 3rd the vast majority of Arsenal fans are happy, sadly.
augie wrote:Slating liverpool as a club that are living in the past is more than a little ironic coming from us Gooners - they at least showed a willingness to be ruthless with a former hero who hasnt been managing well whilst we stick by a manager that continues to mis-manage but lives off the back of previous glories You tell me which club is trying to be more progressive and move forward
hang on a minute isnt Wenger already achieving for Arsenal what the Liverpool owners want from their club?
If Liverpool were bothered about winning trophies then they wouldnt have sacked Dalglish.
augie wrote:Slating liverpool as a club that are living in the past is more than a little ironic coming from us Gooners - they at least showed a willingness to be ruthless with a former hero who hasnt been managing well whilst we stick by a manager that continues to mis-manage but lives off the back of previous glories You tell me which club is trying to be more progressive and move forward
hang on a minute isnt Wenger already achieving for Arsenal what the Liverpool owners want from their club? If Liverpool were bothered about winning trophies then they wouldnt have sacked Dalglish.
There is definitely truth in that. Cups mean very little to the directors and owners of football clubs as they have no economic value. I think winning the FA Cup is worth about £2m in prize money - about a tenth of what clubs get for just reaching the Group stage of the CL. Winning the Beer Cup is worth even less. When you consider that the prize on offer for both is a place in the Europa League, widely reported as being a loss maker for big clubs until at least the semi-finals, I can understand why someone who has pumped millions into a football club couldn't give a shit about the cups
The problem for us as fans, is that we have different emotions. For me, one of my happiest memories as a fan was my first experience of seeing us win a trophy in the flesh which was 'only' the 1987 Littlewoods Cup triumph against the Mickeys. I'd love my two young lads to experience that sort of excitement, but I fear that whilst the bigger clubs like us are in relentless pursuit of the top 4 it may never happen.
frankbutcher wrote:They live in the past. Dalglish was a legend but he was shown to be out-dated and out of his depth. We might have just come 3rd, but we're light years away from where we used to be. Is Arsenal and Wenger simply a few years away from 8th place finishes? We're hardly moving forward, yet the majority still describe this as a project. Does Wenger's past cloud our ability to look at the present? Just like Liverpool, they were blinded to his failings.
No I don't think we are. I would imagine the Liverpool owners are looking at Arsenal F.C. with envy with the new stadium and a sound financial base. While I think they would want more than we currently have i.e. the ability to compete at the top level, I think we are in a far better position than they are to push for that.
We are undoubtedly IMO on the wane. Top players want to leave, and we have a load of dross on the wage bill. The fans have ideas above where we actually are. In reality we have declined. Financially we are being kept afloat by the Champions League. We have to sell our best players to make a profit. Without player sales we break even. Liverpool are still a bigger Club than us globally. Commercially they are light years ahead of us.
augie wrote:Slating liverpool as a club that are living in the past is more than a little ironic coming from us Gooners - they at least showed a willingness to be ruthless with a former hero who hasnt been managing well whilst we stick by a manager that continues to mis-manage but lives off the back of previous glories You tell me which club is trying to be more progressive and move forward
hang on a minute isnt Wenger already achieving for Arsenal what the Liverpool owners want from their club? If Liverpool were bothered about winning trophies then they wouldnt have sacked Dalglish.
There is definitely truth in that. Cups mean very little to the directors and owners of football clubs as they have no economic value. I think winning the FA Cup is worth about £2m in prize money - about a tenth of what clubs get for just reaching the Group stage of the CL. Winning the Beer Cup is worth even less. When you consider that the prize on offer for both is a place in the Europa League, widely reported as being a loss maker for big clubs until at least the semi-finals, I can understand why someone who has pumped millions into a football club couldn't give a shit about the cups
The problem for us as fans, is that we have different emotions. For me, one of my happiest memories as a fan was my first experience of seeing us win a trophy in the flesh which was 'only' the 1987 Littlewoods Cup triumph against the Mickeys. I'd love my two young lads to experience that sort of excitement, but I fear that whilst the bigger clubs like us are in relentless pursuit of the top 4 it may never happen.
Completely agree with above.
However I would go further than that as I think it effects the players as well. I think winning and the taste of winning brings confidence and leads players to wanting more. Confidence is a huge thing for a player and a team and achieving something together breeds team work and togetherness that we seem to lack. Winning is a habit and finishing third or fourth is not winning anything imo.
) or some ex-player without a track record I'd be even more worried. 
You tell me which club is trying to be more progressive and move forward 
