Banana Boy - Were Laws Really 'Bent'?

[Glitch33]

Football fans are expendable. Players are not subject to the same laws

[northbank123]

Anybody with half a brain would realise that throwing something onto the pitch at a player is going to be illegal and at a minimum leave yourself open to a banning order and quite possibly other criminal sanctions.

[I Hate Hleb]

Like LDB I also don't want to keep bumping up the spuds match thread so have created this specific one for the incident.

[Its Up 4 Grabs Now]

Not that they'll admit it but I don't think there's any escaping the fact it was a banana is a factor here. And, to play devil's advocate , I can understand why the FA (surely the directive comes from them) would want to nip this thing in the bud. Clearly there was no racist element to it & any suggestion it's actually the same as Regis, Barnes et al having bananas thrown at them seems far more racially offensive in itself than what happened to Monkeytwat. But if it was allowed to become a common occurrence they'd just be inviting trouble.

Say Bale was taking a short corner with a black team-mate & a fan threw a banana at him (Bale) then. There's enough ambiguity there for it to kick off. Only takes 1 chav *word censored* to throw a banana at Ferdinand for e.g. & then claim he was only aiming it at Bale. Everyone said they were bored of all the racism talk in the aftermath of the Suarez/Terry cases so why indulge a situation that's possibly gonna drag it all back up again.

I'm all for common sense being used where possible instead of blanket laws but given the history of bananas being thrown onto football pitches I can at least understand why a zero tolerance policy would be used here. Let alone the fact that a bit of common sense would have stopped the guy doing it in the first place, so demanding some the other way now is a touch hypocritical. Don't get me wrong, I thought it was fucking hilarious & we've all done stupid stuff when pissed (I'm assuming he was) but let's not pretend it wasn't idiotic either.

Ideally I suppose they'd have just treated this incident no differently than if he'd thrown some celery or a jam sandwich (whatever punishment that would/wouldn't bring) & then made clear that in future, given the history/emotive connotations, throwing a banana would = lifetime ban regardless of who it was thrown at. But at this point that shouldn't really need spelling out to anyone, surely?

[augie]

A lifetime ban is ridiculous in the extreme and I am confident that, knowing the context of the incident (ie wasnt racist), that no other club would issue a lifetime ban

[Its Up 4 Grabs Now]

A lifetime ban is ridiculous in the extreme and I am confident that, knowing the context of the incident (ie wasnt racist), that no other club would issue a lifetime ban

I assumed the directive ultimately comes from the FA, or were the club free to choose whether to punish or not, and what the punishment should be? If it's the former I don't see what Arsenal could have done differently. It was at the hole so I assume it's the scum's cameras that would have located the bloke who did it - conveniently enough they never seem to find their own fans hurling abuse. Short of Arsenal claiming they had no idea who the fan was, which I'm not sure they'd have got away with anyway, I don't know how they'd have got away without taking action.

I agree it's ridiculous we seem only too willing to punish our own fans but dont push for the scummers/mancs etc to do the same though. And if Arsenal, rather than the FA, actively pursued the guy off their own back then that puts a different spin on things. Without reducing the stupidity of the act.

[Bradywasking]

Not that they'll admit it but I don't think there's any escaping the fact it was a banana is a factor here. And, to play devil's advocate , I can understand why the FA (surely the directive comes from them) would want to nip this thing in the bud. Clearly there was no racist element to it & any suggestion it's actually the same as Regis, Barnes et al having bananas thrown at them seems far more racially offensive in itself than what happened to Monkeytwat. But if it was allowed to become a common occurrence they'd just be inviting trouble.

Say Bale was taking a short corner with a black team-mate & a fan threw a banana at him (Bale) then. There's enough ambiguity there for it to kick off. Only takes 1 chav *word censored* to throw a banana at Ferdinand for e.g. & then claim he was only aiming it at Bale. Everyone said they were bored of all the racism talk in the aftermath of the Suarez/Terry cases so why indulge a situation that's possibly gonna drag it all back up again.

I'm all for common sense being used where possible instead of blanket laws but given the history of bananas being thrown onto football pitches I can at least understand why a zero tolerance policy would be used here. Let alone the fact that a bit of common sense would have stopped the guy doing it in the first place, so demanding some the other way now is a touch hypocritical. Don't get me wrong, I thought it was fucking hilarious & we've all done stupid stuff when pissed (I'm assuming he was) but let's not pretend it wasn't idiotic either.

Ideally I suppose they'd have just treated this incident no differently than if he'd thrown some celery or a jam sandwich (whatever punishment that would/wouldn't bring) & then made clear that in future, given the history/emotive connotations, throwing a banana would = lifetime ban regardless of who it was thrown at. But at this point that shouldn't really need spelling out to anyone, surely?

Cannot argue with anything you say, but still believe a lifetime ban is too much. The context of what he done possibly should be taken into account. I accept there is a zero tolerance on throwing items onto the playing area or perimeter of playing area. It's just so hard to believe a supporter (especially if its a first offence) should pay a high price for stupidity. He obviously brought the banana for that purpose, although how do you prove that, but there was no intention to physically hurt I'm sure. People get away with far worse everyday.

[g88ner]

I'd say it's fairly simple - you cannot have a situation where fans feel it's acceptable, or even tolerated, to throw objects onto the field of play!

We don't have fencing or netting in England and the only thing stopping supporters from throwing objects at players is hoping the fans have common sense, and - for those who don't - hope that the threat of punishment is enough to discourage them.

But if clubs don't act when these incidents occur, then that threat of punishment starts to evaporate and the control the club/police have on the crowd starts to erode, and that's something they're obviously going to be very keen to preserve. After all, it only takes one idiot, so I can totally understand why the clubs and police would want to make an example of anyone who throws an object onto the pitch.

As an isolated incident, throwing a banana may seem trivial, but what if that becomes the norm? Bale will always be a target as he will always dive and always look like a chimp , so what if a banana gets thrown at him every week? - at what point is it deemed unacceptable? (but funny )

That may seem far fetched, but they're probably going by the "give them an inch, they'll take a mile" philosophy, and want to nip it in the bud asap. And, considering football fans (especially away supporters) aren't exactly known for their maturity and self control, I'd say the clubs/police are right to act... and right to come down hard.

Anyway, I thought it was common knowledge that you'd get into trouble with the club/police if you threw on object onto the pitch (at the very least I'd expect a life ban from Arsenal), so the guy surely knew the risks? (although I must admit I've not followed the story, so if he's got learning difficulties or something like that, then my point here is perhaps null and void )

[flash gunner]

A lifetime ban is ridiculous in the extreme and I am confident that, knowing the context of the incident (ie wasnt racist), that no other club would issue a lifetime ban

I don't agree augie I think every club would issue a lifetime ban (which I think is excessive) but there does seem to be a zero tolerance policy with regards to chucking things on the pitch from every club

[Goonuz71]

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1991/19/section/2

It is an offence for a person at a designated football match to throw anything at or towards—
(a)the playing area, or any area adjacent to the playing area to which spectators are not generally admitted, or
(b)any area in which spectators or other persons are or may be present,
without lawful authority or lawful excuse (which shall be for him to prove).



Having now read this (please correct me if im wrong )...but could a player be charged with the offence when throwing shirts or boots into the crowd ? ? and what about supporters who throw scraves or hats etc at players when winning at wembley cup finals etc ? ?

AND what about that poxy lot of mockneys whammers "throwing bubbles " out of their machine whenever they score ......you could go on and on and on

[TeeCee]

[northbank123]

I'd be careful photoshopping his face onto any black players... people might get the wrong idea!

[Nos89]

Young Mr Flint will have trouble wriggling out of this offence unless there is reasonable doubt that he didn't throw the curved yellow fruit.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1991/19/section/2

It is an offence for a person at a designated football match to throw anything at or towards—
(a)the playing area, or any area adjacent to the playing area to which spectators are not generally admitted, or
(b)any area in which spectators or other persons are or may be present,
without lawful authority or lawful excuse (which shall be for him to prove).

No racist intent needed, doesn't need to hit anyone,doesn't need to land on the pitch, could be a anything.

I suspect he will be advised to plead guilty, get some unpaid community work and accept a long, long banning order.

Alternatively he could elect for a trial by jury and hope to get 12 proper fans to find him not guilty.

Just a mute point how come Wenger hasn't been charged for hurling, kicking a bottle of water towards the pitch, bench. Isn't it the same thing?

[northbank123]

WITHOUT LAWFUL AUTHORITY OR LAWFUL EXCUSE - as the police/stewards are the authorities responsible for implementing these rules if they allow something to happen it's not illegal as it's lawful authority. Furthermore, fans consent to players throwing shirts etc into the crowd after a game.

What the bloke did was obviously not condoned by stewards/police, and clearly Bale didn't consent to having a banana thrown at him. Besides, just like any law there are probably technicalities where somebody may be liable to prosecution without any moral guilt, hence why the DPP will only bring a charge if its in the public interest.

At the end of the day it's a harsh lesson but the bloke must have known what he was doing was illegal when he hatched his ingenious plan.

[g88ner]

Just a mute point how come Wenger hasn't been charged for hurling, kicking a bottle of water towards the pitch, bench. Isn't it the same thing?

Do you think it's the same thing? honestly?

I know you're joking, but I guess the whole thing boils down to common sense. You obviously shouldn't be able to throw objects from the stand onto the pitch/area of play, but clearly if a manager, player, etc. kicks/throws a bottle at the ground in frustration then it would be pretty ridiculous to see them taken away by a steward and given a life long stadium ban - would certainly be an interesting end to Wenger's reign though!