Will Ingerland Ever Win Anything Ever Again?

[Nos89]

We have the quality in this country what they lack is the desire/passion to push themselves to the very top. But, and this is the most important aspect, have we got an English coach that can get the players to sing their national anthem as proudly and as passionately as Scolari got the Brazilian players doing???

The Spanish anthem doesn't even have words and they've won three major competitions in four years. External passion doesn't mean that much in football, you have to have technique and tactical knowledge. The "England, ROAR" attitude won't win anything. The likes of Messi, Iniesta, Riquelme and Pirlo never show much external passion yet they are some of the best football players I've ever seen. For England, Scholes, Owen, Cashley and Rooney have never been passionate "singers" but they were/are England's best and most consistent performers.

That's where I disagree with you. Football is all about passion. Even more so in international football. If the players aren't feeling the passion for their nation they aren't gonna perform to their top level.

[Nos89]

Yes- the Sir Stanley Rous cup is being re-introduced to the football calender.

We can't keep blaming the FA as is there a more corrupt football association in football than the Brazilian FA? We have the quality in this country what they lack is the desire/ passion to push themselves to the very top. But, and this is the most important aspect, have we got an English coach that can get the players to sing their national anthem as proudly and as passionately as Scolari got the Brazilian players doing???

There are some great out of work English coaches, if they are talking about quotas for English players in the premier league, shouldn't there be quotas for English coaches/managers in the premier league?

I don't actually think we do have the quality. Look at the best players in the world at present, where would you put the highest Englishman? Our "best" player is probably still Rooney but I'd have him quite far down the list of Premier League players nevermind the list of best in the world- would he actually get a game for Spain, Brazil, Germany or Argentina? He might get a game for Italy I suppose but even then its far from certain. Gerrard and Lampard at their peak weren't even challenging for the best midfielder in the world at the time, we have a lot of players who look good in the PL and then look horribly limited when tested in international competition against the worlds best when they don't have Ronaldo/ Yaya Toure etc to carry them, England haven't played really well in a tournament match for fucking ages (actually the last one I can really remember was that Holland game in 96 although I must be forgetting one or two good performances, I hope!)

As for the English coaches, I'm not convinced there either, we've got very few qualified coaches compared to other european countries and this lack of competition doesn't help push the standard up, just look at the shitty bunch of managers we produce, by and large talentless twats that keep doing mediocre jobs everywhere they go but somehow staying on the merry-go-round. We need a massive overhaul of football in this country but I can't see the FA ever going for it.

I give the example of Moyes, Rodgers, Martinez, all highly regarded as the top coaches in the PL They came through the same system as Paul Ince, Stuart Pearce, Gareth Southgate, Tony Adams etc... yet the non English coaches are more successful. It's down to their attitude. Quite why Adams hasn't been given the opportunity at a top club is beyond me. As Portsmouth coach he won the FA Cup, admittedly, when he took over as manager the owners sold half the squad without telling him, which stitched him up good and proper. When the FA went for Sven and Capello they made a major mistake as it showed they didn't trust English managers, developed in their own system. The appointment of Hodgeson was a step in the right direction. Its the safe appointment he has been doing a good job. Will he inspire the team to win a major tournament, I don't think he will, but he will make us difficult to beat. It seems that the English born coaches are Championship level, not Premier League level but which one's have been given the chance? Ian Holloway, Brian McDermott, Steve Bruce, Neil Warnock can almost guarantee promotion from the championship but have yet to sustain themselves in the Premier League, is that their ability or the fact the clubs they manage plan for instant relegation? The top English PL manager was Sam Allardyce finishing 10th with West Ham. By rights he should be the next English manager. Frightening thought.

[Red Gunner]

We have the quality in this country what they lack is the desire/passion to push themselves to the very top. But, and this is the most important aspect, have we got an English coach that can get the players to sing their national anthem as proudly and as passionately as Scolari got the Brazilian players doing???

The Spanish anthem doesn't even have words and they've won three major competitions in four years. External passion doesn't mean that much in football, you have to have technique and tactical knowledge. The "England, ROAR" attitude won't win anything. The likes of Messi, Iniesta, Riquelme and Pirlo never show much external passion yet they are some of the best football players I've ever seen. For England, Scholes, Owen, Cashley and Rooney have never been passionate "singers" but they were/are England's best and most consistent performers.

That's where I disagree with you. Football is all about passion. Even more so in international football. If the players aren't feeling the passion for their nation they aren't gonna perform to their top level.

Of course passion is important, you don't become a professional football player without passion but I was talking about "external passion." I don't believe that type of passion is important in football. For example, look at Neymar's goal against Spain:

Gol Neymar Brasil vs España 3-0 Final Copa Confederaciones 2013

Was that down to passion? No. It was great technique and tactical awareness.

You previously asked "have we got an English coach that can get the players to sing their national anthem as proudly and as passionately as Scolari got the Brazilian players doing." Let's look at the very same man's Brazil team before the 2002 World Cup final:

Hino Brasil 2X0 Alemanha Copa do Mundo 2002 final

Not much pride and passion in singing the anthem but they ended up beating Germany and winning their fifth World Cup.

Here's the Spain team before the 2010 World Cup final:

himno España, comienzo partido final mundial sudafrica contra holanda

Not much patriotic passion and grimacing there but they ended up winning their first World Cup.

[LeftfootlegendGooner]

England just dropped 6 places to 15th in the fifa world rankings, guess we won't win it next year now, always fucking us up the fuckers

[skizz_b]

Will Ingerland Ever Win Anything Ever Again?

[LDB]

We have the quality in this country what they lack is the desire/passion to push themselves to the very top. But, and this is the most important aspect, have we got an English coach that can get the players to sing their national anthem as proudly and as passionately as Scolari got the Brazilian players doing???

The Spanish anthem doesn't even have words and they've won three major competitions in four years. External passion doesn't mean that much in football, you have to have technique and tactical knowledge. The "England, ROAR" attitude won't win anything. The likes of Messi, Iniesta, Riquelme and Pirlo never show much external passion yet they are some of the best football players I've ever seen. For England, Scholes, Owen, Cashley and Rooney have never been passionate "singers" but they were/are England's best and most consistent performers.

That's where I disagree with you. Football is all about passion. Even more so in international football. If the players aren't feeling the passion for their nation they aren't gonna perform to their top level.

Of course passion is important, you don't become a professional football player without passion but I was talking about "external passion." I don't believe that type of passion is important in football. For example, look at Neymar's goal against Spain:

Gol Neymar Brasil vs España 3-0 Final Copa Confederaciones 2013

Was that down to passion? No. It was great technique and tactical awareness.

You previously asked "have we got an English coach that can get the players to sing their national anthem as proudly and as passionately as Scolari got the Brazilian players doing." Let's look at the very same man's Brazil team before the 2002 World Cup final:

Hino Brasil 2X0 Alemanha Copa do Mundo 2002 final

Not much pride and passion in singing the anthem but they ended up beating Germany and winning their fifth World Cup.

Here's the Spain team before the 2010 World Cup final:

himno España, comienzo partido final mundial sudafrica contra holanda

Not much patriotic passion and grimacing there but they ended up winning their first World Cup.

Completely agree with Red Gunner. Every major tournament the country whips itself into some patriotic frenzy, radio phone-ins and the media is dominated by hyperbole about passion and "doing it for your country". If we placed half as much time and effort into producing people who can actually play football over this romanticised shite we might actually have a chance.

It can probably be argued that all this bollocks is essentially harmless but imo when the inevitable exit comes it distracts people from the fact we're simply not good enough and our approach to coaching the game at grass roots is positively Neanderthal. Instead, we can just moan about premier league wages, criticise our few decent players for not singing the anthem, dream of rousing team talks that rarely happen in real life and hope to invoke the "spirit of '66".

We need to be more like the Germans - produce proper footballers and send them out to win games of fucking football, not pretend they're in the battle of Waterloo.

[spendsum4uckingmoney]

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/juan- ... =news_text

^^^ This is everything that is wrong with England today. So Wigan sign yet another defender from Hondurus. How the fuck do these average footballers get work permits? Its great having the very best but this guy was just signed because he is slightly more cheaper than buying English talent and he will take English players opportunities because English players cant get experience. Why? Because average foreigners like Garcia are taking them!

[northbank123]

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/juan- ... =news_text

^^^ This is everything that is wrong with England today. So Wigan sign yet another defender from Hondurus. How the fuck do these average footballers get work permits? Its great having the very best but this guy was just signed because he is slightly more cheaper than buying English talent and he will take English players opportunities because English players cant get experience. Why? Because average foreigners like Garcia are taking them!

Don't really see the problem with giving a professional footballer at that level a work permit given what they contribute by way of taxes.

Guess you could argue that it's symbolic of the system at large but I don't think that England's next CB is waiting in the wings at Wigan. Getting game time isn't really a problem for talented young English players because of the farcical loan system - the problem is they're then not as good as they're hyped up to be and can't cut it when they move back to the parent club or to a big club. Jones, Smalling and Cleverley are three examples of young players who at various stages have been wildly talked up by the media but haven't managed to nail down spots in their club despite weak opposition in their positions. The media and United fans don't like admitting it but Ferguson didn't trust those players - hence why he put the patchwork pairing of Ferdinand and Evans together for so long, why he called Scholes out of retirement even though his legs are gone and why he persisted with Rafael at RB despite him being piss-poor for so long.

The damage is done by the time they're on professional deals.

[arseofacrow]

England just doesn't produce the talent in quantity. It's a societal failure.