Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

[augie]

Or a case of a journalist regurgitating old comments looking for copy to file.

Exactly!

Seems a nonsense story to me. If Saliba is at Arsenal next season I expect a full apology from augie and BFG for choosing to believe The Sun

Do you believe that Saliba will be an AFC player when the next transfer window closes g88ner ?

I genuinely think he will mate… although I also thought it impossible we’d let Auba go without bringing a striker in to replace him so god only knows!

Actually, his contract situation might make it complicated. With only 2 years left, if he really wants out maybe we’ll sell.

Anyway, I’m far from being Arteta/Edu’s biggest critic but the treatment of Saliba has been abysmal. Massive fuck up not loaning him out in time last summer so I would understand Saliba wanting to leave.

I was chatting my youngest lad about the saliba issue last night, and I honestly cannot see how he signs a new deal if pep's water boy remains - when the club signed him there was a condition in the deal that we had to let him go back on loan to his old club so we had no option then. The two loan spells since however are totally on arteta and are a clear message that he doesnt want to give the kid a chance - if you are Saliba and knowing that your stock is high right now, would you want to sign a new deal at AFC ?

[Nos89]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football ... liba-sell/

And here we go already -

"Yet Arsenal boss Arteta remains uncertain about the Saliba's ability to handle the demands of the Premier League as well as his character. And he does not want Saliba back at the Emirates next season if he is going to be a disruptive element."

Another case of pep's cone boy banishing a player who might have opinions and views of their own - there are few things in life as predictable as this cock, and it seems that every time he wants rid of a player he comes out with comments or suggestions on a players attitude At what stage are the people above him gonna turn around and question whether it is his attitude that is the problem ?

It reads like a bullshit story trying to unsettle supporters against the club before an important game against the chavs and manure. Taken with a pinch of salt as Arteta has publicly come out in praise of Saliba recently.

[Nos89]

Simply cannot decide on Arteta at this moment in time. Annoyed we've lost the last 3 when we were in 4th. Could completely change if we win the next 3.
Yet, since he's been at the club he's won the FA Cup, beat Liverpool in the charity shield. Reached a semifinal of a cup competition in each of his seasons in charge. Made brave decisions in moving players out of the club that were affecting morale, and the payroll budget. Brought in some good quality players, and can see the young players improving and tightened up our ten year long defensive frailties. Compared to those clubs around us, he's doing a decent job for a rookie. Which is part of the problem I have with him. Arsenal should be a place for established elite managers. But, he didn't recruit himself, and nothing against him as a person.

Or you could look at it another way and say that he used the transfer policy as his own form of retribution - when you move on experienced/proven players and replace them with unproven ones it is brave, but when you just get rid of players whose presence might undermine you and you dont bother bringing in anyone to replace them, then for me that is self serving vengence and it has hurt the team big time. I read someone on here over the weekend claiming that he did try to bring in vlahovic as a replacement for auba, but it was well publicised from early January that vlahovic had no interest in joining us.
A good manager knows how to use auba for the remaining 5 months of the season in order to get the top 4 position you covet - the swiss turd admitted last week in his woe is me interview, that he was on his way out the door until pep's cone boy went to him and asked him to wait 5 months and he would let him leave then if he still wanted to - if he can do that for a useless *word censored* like xhaka, then why couldnt he do it with the best goalscorer in the club ? Of course the response to this will be the way auba was gonna affect morale - does anyone actually believe that ? Isnt it well reported that auba was popular with the players, so he wasnt affecting their morale. How do you think the players morale is right now ? Feeling pretty low I would think, and you would have to wonder how their morale would be if they had a proper goalscorer in the team and were winning games and looking likely to get top 4 Please dont insult me by coming back with the media clap trap about the improved results after auba was dropped - that might work with a media who maybe dont pay close attention to the reality at AFC, but for Gooners we can look at the improved results and see them for what they were ...... wins against shit teams, and then followed up by an awful run of results as soon as we faced the better teams.

I wouldn't say it was retribution. You were critical of Aubameyang before he left, and I think you even suggested we sold him in the summer for £25m to get some money for him as he wasn't performing at the level he set by his own high standards. It was clear on the pitch Aubameyang had lost focus/ interest playing for the club. If Barcelona were sniffing round Aubameyang in the summer his head would've been turned, as we have since learnt, his parents live there. In this case Arteta may have not wanted an Ozil like situation in the dressing room. With hindsight, selling him in the summer would've been better than letting him leave for nothing in January. But I guess no one saw that coming. A better example of Arteta's management would be the way he's moved out players that just weren't doing it for the team, like Willian.

[augie]

Simply cannot decide on Arteta at this moment in time. Annoyed we've lost the last 3 when we were in 4th. Could completely change if we win the next 3.
Yet, since he's been at the club he's won the FA Cup, beat Liverpool in the charity shield. Reached a semifinal of a cup competition in each of his seasons in charge. Made brave decisions in moving players out of the club that were affecting morale, and the payroll budget. Brought in some good quality players, and can see the young players improving and tightened up our ten year long defensive frailties. Compared to those clubs around us, he's doing a decent job for a rookie. Which is part of the problem I have with him. Arsenal should be a place for established elite managers. But, he didn't recruit himself, and nothing against him as a person.

Or you could look at it another way and say that he used the transfer policy as his own form of retribution - when you move on experienced/proven players and replace them with unproven ones it is brave, but when you just get rid of players whose presence might undermine you and you dont bother bringing in anyone to replace them, then for me that is self serving vengence and it has hurt the team big time. I read someone on here over the weekend claiming that he did try to bring in vlahovic as a replacement for auba, but it was well publicised from early January that vlahovic had no interest in joining us.
A good manager knows how to use auba for the remaining 5 months of the season in order to get the top 4 position you covet - the swiss turd admitted last week in his woe is me interview, that he was on his way out the door until pep's cone boy went to him and asked him to wait 5 months and he would let him leave then if he still wanted to - if he can do that for a useless *word censored* like xhaka, then why couldnt he do it with the best goalscorer in the club ? Of course the response to this will be the way auba was gonna affect morale - does anyone actually believe that ? Isnt it well reported that auba was popular with the players, so he wasnt affecting their morale. How do you think the players morale is right now ? Feeling pretty low I would think, and you would have to wonder how their morale would be if they had a proper goalscorer in the team and were winning games and looking likely to get top 4 Please dont insult me by coming back with the media clap trap about the improved results after auba was dropped - that might work with a media who maybe dont pay close attention to the reality at AFC, but for Gooners we can look at the improved results and see them for what they were ...... wins against shit teams, and then followed up by an awful run of results as soon as we faced the better teams.

I wouldn't say it was retribution. You were critical of Aubameyang before he left, and I think you even suggested we sold him in the summer for £25m to get some money for him as he wasn't performing at the level he set by his own high standards. It was clear on the pitch Aubameyang had lost focus/ interest playing for the club. If Barcelona were sniffing round Aubameyang in the summer his head would've been turned, as we have since learnt, his parents live there. In this case Arteta may have not wanted an Ozil like situation in the dressing room. With hindsight, selling him in the summer would've been better than letting him leave for nothing in January. But I guess no one saw that coming. A better example of Arteta's management would be the way he's moved out players that just weren't doing it for the team, like Willian.

For starters can I clarify things by saying that I wanted auba sold before he signed his last contract, and not last summer as you suggest - his market value had never been higher and I argued at the time that we could have got a huge price for him and bought two players in like the victims did with countino money

I wanted auba dropped in mid season not sold - his performances had clearly dipped and imo he needed a stint out of the team to re-focus him. I did not want him sold UNLESS we signed a proven goal scorer to replace him, but had we done that I would have been ok with selling him. The one thing you simply do not do is sell your main goal scorer and leave the goal shy laca and nketieh as your only options for the season. Totally unforgivable imo

Like I said previously, if lego head can cajole the swiss turd to give the team 5 more months, why could he not do it with auba until we got that top 4 spot ?

[goonersid]

Simply cannot decide on Arteta at this moment in time. Annoyed we've lost the last 3 when we were in 4th. Could completely change if we win the next 3.
Yet, since he's been at the club he's won the FA Cup, beat Liverpool in the charity shield. Reached a semifinal of a cup competition in each of his seasons in charge. Made brave decisions in moving players out of the club that were affecting morale, and the payroll budget. Brought in some good quality players, and can see the young players improving and tightened up our ten year long defensive frailties. Compared to those clubs around us, he's doing a decent job for a rookie. Which is part of the problem I have with him. Arsenal should be a place for established elite managers. But, he didn't recruit himself, and nothing against him as a person.

Or you could look at it another way and say that he used the transfer policy as his own form of retribution - when you move on experienced/proven players and replace them with unproven ones it is brave, but when you just get rid of players whose presence might undermine you and you dont bother bringing in anyone to replace them, then for me that is self serving vengence and it has hurt the team big time. I read someone on here over the weekend claiming that he did try to bring in vlahovic as a replacement for auba, but it was well publicised from early January that vlahovic had no interest in joining us.
A good manager knows how to use auba for the remaining 5 months of the season in order to get the top 4 position you covet - the swiss turd admitted last week in his woe is me interview, that he was on his way out the door until pep's cone boy went to him and asked him to wait 5 months and he would let him leave then if he still wanted to - if he can do that for a useless *word censored* like xhaka, then why couldnt he do it with the best goalscorer in the club ? Of course the response to this will be the way auba was gonna affect morale - does anyone actually believe that ? Isnt it well reported that auba was popular with the players, so he wasnt affecting their morale. How do you think the players morale is right now ? Feeling pretty low I would think, and you would have to wonder how their morale would be if they had a proper goalscorer in the team and were winning games and looking likely to get top 4 Please dont insult me by coming back with the media clap trap about the improved results after auba was dropped - that might work with a media who maybe dont pay close attention to the reality at AFC, but for Gooners we can look at the improved results and see them for what they were ...... wins against shit teams, and then followed up by an awful run of results as soon as we faced the better teams.

I wouldn't say it was retribution. You were critical of Aubameyang before he left, and I think you even suggested we sold him in the summer for £25m to get some money for him as he wasn't performing at the level he set by his own high standards. It was clear on the pitch Aubameyang had lost focus/ interest playing for the club. If Barcelona were sniffing round Aubameyang in the summer his head would've been turned, as we have since learnt, his parents live there. In this case Arteta may have not wanted an Ozil like situation in the dressing room. With hindsight, selling him in the summer would've been better than letting him leave for nothing in January. But I guess no one saw that coming. A better example of Arteta's management would be the way he's moved out players that just weren't doing it for the team, like Willian.

For starters can I clarify things by saying that I wanted auba sold before he signed his last contract, and not last summer as you suggest - his market value had never been higher and I argued at the time that we could have got a huge price for him and bought two players in like the victims did with countino money

I wanted auba dropped in mid season not sold - his performances had clearly dipped and imo he needed a stint out of the team to re-focus him. I did not want him sold UNLESS we signed a proven goal scorer to replace him, but had we done that I would have been ok with selling him. The one thing you simply do not do is sell your main goal scorer and leave the goal shy laca and nketieh as your only options for the season. Totally unforgivable imo

Like I said previously, if lego head can cajole the swiss turd to give the team 5 more months, why could he not do it with auba until we got that top 4 spot ?

Whilst I concede that Arteta is finished, I think Aubameyang simply made his place at the club untenable, he was showing a blatant disregard for club rules, he was showing a complete lack of respect for the club and the fans, his performances were unacceptable and no amount of cajoling from Arteta or anyone else was going to change that.
As for not signing a replacement? I don't think there was one available, atleast not one who would be a longterm investment instead they chose to gamble that we would get top 4 and I firmly believe the plan was to have major investment in the summer.
It looked to be going to plan, but now the wheels are well and truly off, with Arteta's inexperience and shortcomings being fully exposed.
We've got the 2 appointments since wenger wrong.
The hapless, weak Emery, who allowed Ozil and others to undermine him.
The inexperienced, arrogant yet clueless Arteta, who did at least have the balls to sort out the trouble makers.
Maybe there was a good manager in the two of them combined.
We're in a mess now for sure and instead of attracting quality players in the summer, we'll be struggling to hold on to what little quality we have.

[A11M11]

Well we are going to ,. Hold on to him that is . The club's announcement on the pre season competition in the U.S of A made that that an absloute.

quote The FC Series, together with our Orlando training camp, will provide Mikel and the squad with an excellent level of preparation unquote .

There you have it at least one more season and an interrupted one by a crazy world cup in Qatar at that , providing more ready made excuses.

[wilson2.0]

You never see Mane or Salah hugging the touchlines. Where as Saka and Martinelli are so often on the touchlines. They shouldn't play so wide, they need to come in field a bit.

Our movement and ball speed out the back is also too slow. Everything about the way we play is designed to create little chances. Even when we were winning games, we were not scoring that many o r creating, aside form a few games.

So much about the last month has made be question my support for Arteta.

[Nos89]

You never see Mane or Salah hugging the touchlines. Where as Saka and Martinelli are so often on the touchlines. They shouldn't play so wide, they need to come in field a bit.

Our movement and ball speed out the back is also too slow. Everything about the way we play is designed to create little chances. Even when we were winning games, we were not scoring that many o r creating, aside form a few games.

So much about the last month has made be question my support for Arteta.

It's a pep tactic to widen the pitch. Difference with Liverpool is that they have wing backs, that go outside allowing the front 3 to be closer together. We haven't got the players for that system.

[A11M11]

Tierney used to get to the by line but now he either centres early or passes inside to a midfielder . Seems like he's been told not to venture too far forward.

[Nos89]

Managed an Arsenal team that beat Manure and Chavs in the space of 4 days, in two huge season defining games. Something Wenger failed to do in that dreadful week in 2004 with The Invincible's. If only...
Well done Arteta for turning it round. Again!

[SteveO 35]

The team and manager deserve credit for turning things round in these last 2 games. I think they've been helped by some of the most slapstick defending I've ever seen Man Ure and Chavski produce, but you still have to go on and win the games, and we've somehow managed it with 2 full backs that are clearly out of their depth.

Didn't see it coming - after the Saints defeat I couldn't see another win (or barely a goal) on the horizon.

To me its no coincidence that taking Lacazette and Lokonga out of the team has contributed massively, so credit to the manager for making those changes. Whilst Nketiah and Elneny are no world beaters their performances in the past 2 games have been far superior to the players they replaced

[gooner265]

The team and manager deserve credit for turning things round in these last 2 games. I think they've been helped by some of the most slapstick defending I've ever seen Man Ure and Chavski produce, but you still have to go on and win the games, and we've somehow managed it with 2 full backs that are clearly out of their depth.

Didn't see it coming - after the Saints defeat I couldn't see another win (or barely a goal) on the horizon.

To me its no coincidence that taking Lacazette and Lokonga out of the team has contributed massively, so credit to the manager for making those changes. Whilst Nketiah and Elneny are no world beaters their performances in the past 2 games have been far superior to the players they replaced

Pragmatism comes to mind for once , with Tommy back and hopefully Partey for the NLD we have a shout. We should at least get my target of 5th now , if we dont it would be a disaster.

[SteveO 35]

The team and manager deserve credit for turning things round in these last 2 games. I think they've been helped by some of the most slapstick defending I've ever seen Man Ure and Chavski produce, but you still have to go on and win the games, and we've somehow managed it with 2 full backs that are clearly out of their depth.

Didn't see it coming - after the Saints defeat I couldn't see another win (or barely a goal) on the horizon.

To me its no coincidence that taking Lacazette and Lokonga out of the team has contributed massively, so credit to the manager for making those changes. Whilst Nketiah and Elneny are no world beaters their performances in the past 2 games have been far superior to the players they replaced

Pragmatism comes to mind for once , with Tommy back and hopefully Partey for the NLD we have a shout. We should at least get my target of 5th now , if we dont it would be a disaster.

I'm less worried about rushing Partey back because Elneny is ideal in those type of games and will do a job.

Cedric however is absolutely fucking abysmal, as is Tavares. The quicker Tommy is back the better !

[goonersid]

Although we are in prime position again for 4th place (still think we'll blow it) but even if we don't, I'm still firmly in the "Arteta out" camp.
The 3 losses in a row (2 of them against shite) can't simply be brushed under the carpet and we were second best yesterday against the mancs, but managed to sneak it.
If I honestly believed that failure to secure top 4, would see him sacked, then I'd be happy to lose every remaining fixture.
Thing is he's going to be there next season (to begin with at least) so top 4 may allow us to hold on to our better players and make a few quality additions.
At least then, if he shows the same management and tactical shortcomings, coupled with runs of poor results, if the kroenkes do eventually sack him, at least a new boss might have a decent squad to work with.
Still think we'll blow it though, defeats at shammers, sperz and another against relegation fodder, will cost us.

[DB10GOONER]

For me the priority is replacing fucktard Clive because if there is one player with the capacity to totally fuck this season when it matters most it's that fucking moron.

I'd love to see Elninny and Partey in the centre. No world beaters either of them, but both are a million times better than Clive.

Of course that won't happen if the latest horseshit out of Martinez-Lite is anything to go by. I can only imagine Clive gives him the best blowjob / ass-fingering combo he's ever had. There is simply no other explanation for his love of the baboon brained gobshite.