As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
highburyJD wrote:I see our inability to create chances as far more of a prob than our defence
our prob was key individual errors from horribly out of form Vermaelen and shit Santos
tweaks can sort that,
Creating no chances is much harder to rectify
Really?
We conceded 49 goals last season with the same players that this season you say are out of form, are they out of form are are they not good enough? We also don't defend as a team so i would guess its going to take a hell of a lot more than 'tweaks' to sort this shower out
and thats without mentioning the other problem you've highlighted above
Agreed. GG said it best when he said you build from the back. Get the defence right, make them a dificult unit to break down, concentrate on not conceding goals, then develop the nice passing midfield and the predatory strikers. A shit defence will win nothing. Basically trying to win every game 5-3 by outscoring the oppo is a ridiculous approach, and particularly won't work when we don't have those top level predatory strikers to score enough goals to do so on a regular enough basis anyway...
12 of the 49 we concede in 2 early games
I think with uncle Bouldy on board our shape was much improved (with Gibbs)
with Verminators form in the toilet I think we play Mertescielny + pray Keiron stays fit till Xmas
I see our current defensive issues as more individual,
compared to the structural issues we had in the last few years
big worry isn't just goals, its chances. We create roughly one a game at the moment.
Serving up unwatchable shite.
highburyJD wrote:I see our inability to create chances as far more of a prob than our defence
our prob was key individual errors from horribly out of form Vermaelen and shit Santos
tweaks can sort that,
Creating no chances is much harder to rectify
"Horrible individual errors" have plagued us for the last few years though, JD - I agree in theory that tweaks can sort that, but in reality... these mistakes keep happening over and over again. And alarmingly, a change of personnel doesn't seem to stem the flow of errors.... they seem to take it in turns to mess up
Great points from SteveO about the CL. Totally agree with him.
Ironically UEFA allowing top 4 to qualify may have been one of the worst things that happened to Arsenal … because it allowed the club and Wenger to let their standards drop while still making money.
The CL though is a competition that sums up everything wrong with the modern game. An elitist overblown bore-fest for the most part that was formed for all the wrong reasons. Deliberately created to allow all the top clubs into it no matter how far off being champions in their own league they were and designed to keep them in it as long as possible. This then increases their revenue, meaning their advantage they already had over their domestic rivals increases and the whole thing almost becomes a closed shop – probably the intention.
The vast majority of the group games are boring, especially ours. They have no edge to them, until maybe the last one if there is still something to play for. The 91-92 format was better where there was 2 knockout rounds, then 2 groups forming but nothing beats straight knockout for drama.
Seedings should never happen in football either. And let’s face it, Arsenal are only seeded now because we used to have a good side years back. That great side of the past is the reason we now get easy groups that our current very average side always qualifies from … meaning they get seeded again the following year. I don’t like this. Knowing full well that we are not going to win this competition, I’d much rather have a group like Man City have got than the dross we get paired against every year.
Given the choice, I’d go back to the old format of the European cup, UEFA cup and CWC in a cold minute. They were good competitons. Me and a mate were watching a documentary on YouTube not so long ago about the history of the European cup. I think we stopped after about 1998. But what a history it has! And how sad that never again will a final be contested between sides like the 1979 final that saw Nottingham Forest v Malmo.
highburyJD wrote:12 of the 49 we concede in 2 early games
I think with uncle Bouldy on board our shape was much improved (with Gibbs)
with Verminators form in the toilet I think we play Mertescielny + pray Keiron stays fit till Xmas
I see our current defensive issues as more individual,
compared to the structural issues we had in the last few years
big worry isn't just goals, its chances. We create roughly one a game at the moment.
Serving up unwatchable shite.
Not having a pop here JD but would you still insist none of this is down Wenger's failings as a poor manager but rather the players' fault? Not the man who selects which players play and what system they play?
Hard for me not to have a pop back to that loaded question:
would you STILL insist none of this is Wengers fault, is up there with
"Have you stopped beating your wife"
Strawman argument framing
I'm more precise in my criticism of Wenger than many on here
(I hate him, he's an evil bastard who created modern football, boohoo)
I lay our failure to score goals firmly at the managers door, we're not creating chances
the defensive mistakes I saw as individual - he didn't tell Vermaelen look for an early RVP assist
or Santos be worthless.
Trouble is IMO defensive problems are far more easily sorted out
By the time Giroud is in a team creating regular chances for him his confidence might be shot.
highburyJD wrote:Hard for me not to have a pop back to that loaded question:
would you STILL insist none of this is Wengers fault, is up there with
"Have you stopped beating your wife" Strawman argument framing
Dear Christ, you really do take yourself too seriously...
You have defended Wenger's inability to manage us on here on thread after thread after thread, insisting he is doing a good job, even going so far as to say if we lost at Norwich it would be the players' fault, not Wenger's. I can only question you on what you write...
But anyway, answer the question; is it Wenger's fault, or not? Simple question really.
Oh good - hopefully they can extend the ever so exciting Group stage to five months now and allow us to play the 4th best teams from Portugal and Greece, because that's what everyone wants to pay £60 a shot for. Teams can't fill their grounds for the Group stage now Platini you berk.
Still, as others have said Kroenke Inc will be delighted because the Virtual Trophy will soon extend to the top six - wonderful, we can finally accept being lower than Spurs and Everton, and still claim that we're winning silverware
If the only thing this competition succeeds in doing is giving me the opportunity to stock up on cheap wine tomorrow morning at Cite Europe then it will have been worthwhile..... !!
Hard to blame Arsenal or Wenger though for the format of the competition or how the prize money dictates it's importance. It's precicely because it is the top 3/4 from Europes top leagues that generates its income. Of course it has nothing to do with what is the most exciting format....
And as for not being worth competing in a competition if you don't have a chance of winning it..... Really? Then why the f*ck are there 92 clubs in the football league when only 4 at most have a realistic chance of winning the top division....? Or why do so many clubs enter the FA Cup when the winner is unlikely to come from outside the Premier League....? For some teams it is just qualifying for the competition that is the trophy (or so says Arsene), and for most in the CL, success is getting through the Group Stage. But that is that same for MOST teams in MOST competitions.... We've also just enjoyed London 2012, where by far the majority of athletes went there to try to achieve PB's etc and had no chance from the outset of actually winning a medal. Would you suggest that only the top 3/4 in each event attend....?
MK Gould wrote:If the only thing this competition succeeds in doing is giving me the opportunity to stock up on cheap wine tomorrow morning at Cite Europe then it will have been worthwhile..... !!
Hard to blame Arsenal or Wenger though for the format of the competition or how the prize money dictates it's importance. It's precicely because it is the top 3/4 from Europes top leagues that generates its income. Of course it has nothing to do with what is the most exciting format....
And as for not being worth competing in a competition if you don't have a chance of winning it..... Really? Then why the f*ck are there 92 clubs in the football league when only 4 at most have a realistic chance of winning the top division....? Or why do so many clubs enter the FA Cup when the winner is unlikely to come from outside the Premier League....? For some teams it is just qualifying for the competition that is the trophy (or so says Arsene), and for most in the CL, success is getting through the Group Stage. But that is that same for MOST teams in MOST competitions.... We've also just enjoyed London 2012, where by far the majority of athletes went there to try to achieve PB's etc and had no chance from the outset of actually winning a medal. Would you suggest that only the top 3/4 in each event attend....?
Its about levels of expectation every club has varying levels this is why non league clubs particpate in the FA Cup and why smaller clubs do so in their own league with the hope of promotion, as with Olympic hopefuls. As an Arsenal fan i dont think its beyond the realms to think we have had a chance to win this cup and our clamour each season to qualify would make you think we seriously want to challenge for it, but we all know we have zero chance of winning the damn thing therefore whats the point? If only the board and manager cared as much about the competition as they did about the cash thats goes with it
highburyJD wrote:12 of the 49 we concede in 2 early games
I think with uncle Bouldy on board our shape was much improved (with Gibbs)
with Verminators form in the toilet I think we play Mertescielny + pray Keiron stays fit till Xmas I see our current defensive issues as more individual,
compared to the structural issues we had in the last few yearsbig worry isn't just goals, its chances. We create roughly one a game at the moment.
Serving up unwatchable shite.
Totally agree, as a team we defend a lot better now - but is it hampering our attacking ability going forward? We will concede a lot less goals than last season, im confident of that, but the big question is if we will score enough goals to turn clean sheets / 1 goal against in wins.
Its about levels of expectation every club has varying levels this is why non league clubs particpate in the FA Cup and why smaller clubs do so in their own league with the hope of promotion, as with Olympic hopefuls. As an Arsenal fan i dont think its beyond the realms to think we have had a chance to win this cup and our clamour each season to qualify would make you think we seriously want to challenge for it, but we all know we have zero chance of winning the damn thing therefore whats the point? If only the board and manager cared as much about the competition as they did about the cash thats goes with it
Well put!
I never see much point comparing us to any other teams, because as you say, each club has varying levels. In terms of resources and potetial, each club is unique.
The only fair comparison in my view, is to compare where we believe Arsenal are compared to where we believe they should be. For many of us they are a long way short of and not because we have unrealistic expectations either.
Wenger listing out his top 5 priorities (poor management in my opinion as the lack of importance some games have clarly gets through to the players) is actually another case of him misleading us.
He claims priority no.1 is winning the PL and no.2 the CL ... but then he makes no attempt to build a squad capable of winning either of them. It’s a false claim.
The no.1 priority (which Wenger pretneds is his no.3) is to qualify for the CL. This is disgraceful on so many levels.
highburyJD wrote:I'm more precise in my criticism of Wenger than many on here
(I hate him, he's an evil bastard who created modern football, boohoo)
I lay our failure to score goals firmly at the managers door, we're not creating chances
the defensive mistakes I saw as individual - he didn't tell Vermaelen look for an early RVP assist
or Santos be worthless.
Trouble is IMO defensive problems are far more easily sorted out
By the time Giroud is in a team creating regular chances for him his confidence might be shot.
He did sign Santos though and continues to play him. Likewise TV5 hasn't been dropped because we don't have two other centre-backs that are playing sufficiently well for it to teach him a lesson, and because we've sold our past few captains so he's been overpromoted despite spending half his AFC career on the treatment table and having debatable leadership qualities. So I would lay the blame for our continued defensive woes squarely at his feet, he can't stop the players from fucking up on the pitch but he's the one responsible for who he sends out there.
Our goalkeeping situation is still a joke (how long have we been saying that) and so many of our defenders are simply not good enough. Love Jenkinson but Sagna is our best defender and I think it's highly likely that he'll fuck off at the end of the season. Wenger is still defensively reckless and despite minor improvements in some areas we still get carved to pieces by half-decent attacking outfits.
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