German Bundesliga and other Foreign Leagues Thread

[Leyton Gooner]

I am reliably informed that "Eintracht" as in Eintracht Frankfurt is the german for United

[I Hate Hleb]

On the contrary he was given assurances about playing more regularly the following season but still chose to go. You are right though, it doesn't take a genius to work out why he left - and it wasn't to get 'more playing time'!!

Quote from Ferguson before 2011/12 season: "I mean if we hold Pogba back, what's going to happen? He's going to leave. You know, in a couple of years’ time when his contract is going to finish. So we have to give him the opportunity to see how he can do in the first-team and he's got great ability"....

It's a good thing I also have access to wiki as the next sentence on Pogba's bio was this....

Pogba was promoted to the club's reserve team permanently for the 2011–12 season and made his season debut on 15 August 2011 in the team's opening Premier Reserve League match against Arsenal.[29] On 25 August, in a team's second league match against the Swansea City reserves, Pogba scored the second goal for the team in a 6–0 rout.[30] On 19 September, he was named to the first-team to participate in the team's Football League Cup tie against Leeds United that was played on the following day with Ferguson proclaiming that "I intend to play him [Pogba] against Leeds United".[31] Pogba, subsequently, made his professional debut in the match appearing as a half-time substitute. Manchester United won the match 3–0.[32] Pogba made his second appearance against Aldershot Town in the Fourth Round of the League Cup on 25 October 2011.
On 31 January 2012, Pogba made his Premier League début against Stoke City replacing Javier Hernández in the 72nd minute.[33] He made another substitute appearance against West Bromwich Albion on 11 March.[34] Four days later, Pogba made his European debut in the second leg of the team's UEFA Europa League Round of 16 tie against Spanish club Athletic Bilbao. He appeared as a substitute in the 2–1 away defeat as Manchester United lost the tie 5–3 on aggregate.[35]

So he went from being in the academy at the start of that summer to playing consistently in the Reserve team and even ended up making a few appearances for the 1st team that season. All at a young age and at a club which was renowned for competing at the highest level and winning stuff. Sounds like Pogba was making exactly the sort of progression you would expect from a talented youngster. Had he stayed with United he would no doubt have played an even bigger role the following season. So why would he feel he had to leave because 'lack of opportunity' certainly doesn't hold water.?

No, the more likely reason for his departure was the one hinted at in this quote from Fergie...

Pogba playing for Juventus in 2012
On 3 July 2012, Manchester United manager Sir Alex Ferguson confirmed that Pogba had left the club after not signing a new contract.[36] Ferguson also stated that Pogba had signed for Italian club Juventus "a long time ago as far as we're aware". ..... Now you and I both know that's code for 'more money'.

Listen northbank123, I'm no natural defender of Fergie, but in this situation I don't think he was the one in the wrong.

[northbank123]

And I'm no natural critic (although I try and be) because he's a great manager but when he's publicly saying before the season that they're going to have to give him first-team opportunities that season and then he makes a small handful of sub appearances and is behind another youngster Cleverley as well as Carrick, Anderson, Scholes and Giggs (both given extensions) in the CM position I don't think he has really followed through on that or that any assurances of future playing time will hold that much weight given that those above him were all going to be staying.

I don't doubt money played a major major role but he went from the outside possibility of a handful of first-team appearances at United to playing regularly for a very strong Juventus side.

[northbank123]

Also similar aged youngster Phil Jones had more playing time at CM that season and there was the prospect of Fletcher returning who would inevitably play regularly.

[Sam59]

thanks for the info on Borussia and Eintracht. My German is non existent, I'm afraid.

Pogba has clearly learnt a lot from playing with Pirlo. He's a far better player than when he was at Utd. I'm sure Ferguson saw his potential but think Juve offered him a first team place sooner. He's now first choice for France. I expect him to take Pirlo's role in the Juventus team when the latter retires. Also really like watching Vidal.

Interesting that Wenger's French scouts missed both Pogba and RM's Varane, who looks amazing for his age too; it will be interesting to see if he's as trusted and comes on as well under Ancelotti as under Mourinho. Say what you like about Mourinho (and I"ll probably agree with you), he does know how to defend.

[I Hate Hleb]

And I'm no natural critic (although I try and be) because he's a great manager but when he's publicly saying before the season that they're going to have to give him first-team opportunities that season and then he makes a small handful of sub appearances and is behind another youngster Cleverley as well as Carrick, Anderson, Scholes and Giggs (both given extensions) in the CM position I don't think he has really followed through on that or that any assurances of future playing time will hold that much weight given that those above him were all going to be staying.

I don't doubt money played a major major role but he went from the outside possibility of a handful of first-team appearances at United to playing regularly for a very strong Juventus side.

At the risk of continuing to hijack this thread (sorry Tomas), my reading of the quote is that Fergie said he would need to give Pogba more first team games over the next couple of seasons, not specifically that season. It would have been curious and brave for any manager to promote a teenager from the academy straight into the first team and pick him ahead of more experienced players - especially when the club is expected to be in the midst of a trophy challenge, rather than pottering about in mid table.

As it happened, of the players mentioned (all of whom were older and more experienced than Pogba) neither Cleverley or Anderson played more than a dozen games that season, whilst Scholes was used barely over that figure (having come out of retirement) and Giggs for just a few games more. Phil Jones was primarily used as a defender that season, playing right back and Centre Half rather than CM. The point being that none of these guys, beyond possibly Cleverly, were going to be a long term threat to Pogba's position at the club the following couple of seasons had he stayed at United.

Anyway, this whole discussion was started and based on the false premise that Fergie had made a mistake in deciding to 'let the guy go', whereas my contention was that in reality it was the player that wanted to leave and not Ferguson that made a mistake in 'getting rid of him'.

[Red Gunner]

thanks for the info on Borussia and Eintracht. My German is non existent, I'm afraid.

Pogba has clearly learnt a lot from playing with Pirlo. He's a far better player than when he was at Utd. I'm sure Ferguson saw his potential but think Juve offered him a first team place sooner. He's now first choice for France. I expect him to take Pirlo's role in the Juventus team when the latter retires. Also really like watching Vidal.

Interesting that Wenger's French scouts missed both Pogba and RM's Varane, who looks amazing for his age too; it will be interesting to see if he's as trusted and comes on as well under Ancelotti as under Mourinho. Say what you like about Mourinho (and I"ll probably agree with you), he does know how to defend.

We were probably tracking Varane but once Real Madrid come in, there is little chance. Varane said Zidane himself contacted him:

How did you arrive at Real Madrid? Who? What? How did the transfer happen? Who was involved and influenced this transfer?

It's thanks to Zizou and to the coach. Zizou was my first contact. Then the coach presented an interesting project to me. He proposed to me to work together, and gave me his confidence.

Did you expect a call from Real Madrid when you were at RC Lens?

No. Not at all…. I received some offers from clubs, but to have Real Madrid knocking… I couldn't imagine that.

http://www.realmadrid.com/cs/Satellite/ ... %80%9D.htm

[Poldi]

German Bundesliga and 2. Liga fixtures have been published (exact dates and k.o. times - until Dec 1st & Nov 25th).

If you're coming over for the CL Dortmund away (Nov 6th), just add a couple of more nights to your stay in Germany and watch some German League matches, e.g.

Cologne - Union Berlin (Monday, Nov 4th, 20.15 k.o.)

Schalke - Bremen (Sat, Nov 9th, 15.30 k.o.)
Leverscum - Hamburger SV (Sat, Nov 9th, 15.30 k.o.)

Düsseldorf - Sandhausen (Sun, Nov 10th, 13.30 k.o.)
Bochum - Cologne (Sun, Nov 10th, 13.30 k.o.)

For other matches and dates check here
http://www.kicker.de/news/live-news/mat ... ender.html

If you fancy some cultural event as well , stay until Nov 11th for the unique experience of Cologne's celebration of the 'Beginning of the Carnival Season', up to 70.000 people in fancy dresses, lots of booze and singing around the Heumarkt (Haymarket-square)...

more info here
http://www.cologne.de/events/cologne-ca ... egins.html

[SoreSack]

the forehead scoring for fun

[Red Gunner]

the forehead scoring for fun

Italian match fixing used to be very subtle, now it's just obvious...

[I Hate Hleb]

the forehead scoring for fun

Italian match fixing used to be very subtle, now it's just obvious...

Brilliant!!

[SoreSack]

the forehead scoring for fun

Italian match fixing used to be very subtle, now it's just obvious...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egvsXKj4JTc

that defending

[Tomáš]

Sorry for not being online for a while...was out of the race on Rehab duties

So, German Bundesliga kicking off the 9 leg today with Hoffenheim taking on Leverkusen
http://www.bundesliga.com/en/index.php? ... f059de97a9
Two weeks ago Bayern made it the first time to the top after the 1:1 away at Leverkusen (a game which Bayern should have won) and the loos of BVB at Borussia Mönchengladbach ( a game which Dortmund should have won).

Borussia Dortmund will take on Hannover at home, some see that as a test for the Tuesday game against migthy Arsenal

Best wishes,
Thomas

[arseofacrow]

Sorry for not being online for a while...was out of the race on Rehab duties

So, German Bundesliga kicking off the 9 leg today with Hoffenheim taking on Leverkusen
http://www.bundesliga.com/en/index.php? ... f059de97a9
Two weeks ago Bayern made it the first time to the top after the 1:1 away at Leverkusen (a game which Bayern should have won) and the loos of BVB at Borussia Mönchengladbach ( a game which Dortmund should have won).

Borussia Dortmund will take on Hannover at home, some see that as a test for the Tuesday game against migthy Arsenal

Best wishes,
Thomas

Hmmm, you weren't that great against Monchengladbach, Tomas. Should be easy tomorrow though. Tuesday - forget about it.

[g88ner]

In the Bundesliga tonight...

2059:
GOAL - Hoffenheim 0-2 Leverkusen - Stefan Kiessling (70 mins)
Real controversy in Hoffenheim! Leverkusen striker Stefan Kiessling raises his hands to his temples after planting a free header into the Hoffenheim side-netting. He knows he should have done better.

But wait! The ball creeps through a hole in the net and is given as a goal by the referee. Unbelievable. Hoffenheim are understandably going nuts, but the referee is unrepentant. Think a disciplinary will be heading your way, ref. That is a shocker.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24588720

Hoffenheim's Rhein-Neckar-Arena has fallen silent in disbelief. The home fans cannot believe what they have just seen. But Leverkusen are not complaining - they are cruising to the the Bundesliga summit with that 'ghost goal'.

We're all still shaking our heads at that frankly bizarre decision in Hoffenheim. How didn't the linesman see Stefan Kiessling's 'goal' went through the side-netting?? Will the German FA order the match be replayed? Who knows. The referee looks rather sheepish now that's for sure. He must know he has made a howler.