Gilberto...

[DB10GOONER]

Am I the only one that doesn't rate Gilberto's passing?

Now, don't get me wrong, I don't hate the man, he seems like a gent and he does seem to instil a bit of confidence in the young lads around him. He has a likeable air of humility about him too.

And he was our top scoring midfielder last season with 11 goals (although 5 of these were penalties). And I know alot of what he does goes unoticed. Things like shadowing attackers to force them back and man marking and covering the forward runs of the wing backs and shielding the centre halves.

I'm just a bit non plussed by his awful passing. And I'm talking basic stuff here, not even the defence splitting slide rule passes that he never manages. Ok I know that (unbelievably) his pass completion rates are fairly high but then so were Roy Keane's even though 90% of Keane's passes were short lateral passes.

Gilberto seems to (far too often) pass directly at a running player's feet rather than a yard or two in front of him or into space ahead of him so the player can run onto the ball. Or he passes three or four yards behind or in front of a standing player or passes short, putting the player under uneccessary pressure. Or worst of all he fires the ball straight into touch at chest height five yards behind the intended target.

Also, he gets caught in possession alot and loses the ball when he was originally under no real pressure at all; it's like he thinks he has more time on the ball than he really does. And his tackling is hit and miss at best.

Jaysus! This is turning into a bit of an anti Gilberto rant isn't it?

It certainly wasn't intended to be at the outset. It was supposed to be just a comment on his passing. But on mature reflection there is a little more wrong there. His tackling is pretty poor too. (And yes I accept that he has made a couple of match saving tackles in his time - but they are the exception that proves the rule for me)

Anyway, here's some of his defensive (he is supposed to be a holding midfielder after all) stats from the club site - one of the few pages you can access without having to pay them ;

For 06-07 Gilberto made 34 (or 27, depending which part of the site you read!! ) appearances. Maybe one of you can clear that up?

Total tackles; 42
tackles won; 23
tackles lost; 19
fouls; 28
Clearances; 33

That's not even 2 tackles won per game and barely over 1 attempted tackle per game. His clearances are a bit better but not much. I suppose we could be a little generous here and allow that at least a third of his fouls probably weren't actually fouls (given the standard of refereeing in the EPL) and should be considered as "good" tackles.

I dunno, I hate crticising Gilberto because I like the guy, I really do. Maybe that's why he gets away with it - he's so damned likeable!!

But he is not a midfield general. And we need a midfield general, someone that can impose themselves on a game and the opposition like Vieira and Petit did. I know as far as the passing and the creative element goes Cesc is becoming the man but he is not a general either.

I suppose we never really replaced those two in the long term...

[Galasso]

Interesting....I understand how it looks with Gilberto and I agree he is not the imposing force of Viera/Petit. But we were lucky to have such a pairing that provided eveything we needed in midfield. This season, Gilberto has come forward more than he ever did, taken responsibility for penalties, and has had to contend with alot of inexperienced kids playing around him.The tackles statistic is interesting and to me, he sometimes doesn't seem to be as strong as he should. Having said that, his positioning in a defensive midfield role is pretty sound and he seems to anticipate well, which probably accounts for a perceived lack of tackles.

In summary, Gilberto has shown leadership qualities this season. He is however not the imposing figure I think many would like to see in midfield, which, as I mentioned in a different thread, takes us into the area of balance in the team. Perhaps the Boss thinks that Eboue and Clichy are going to be such a force going forward that we won't see traditional wide players again, and more of the cutting in, more central play of Rosicky/Hleb, which Bobby mastered. Just a thought.

[Trevheff]

Granted his passing isn't that great but I think he more than makes up for it in other areas. As is often the case I think we realised what he offers when he wasn't there during the 2004/2005 season and we suffered as a result.

We have a young team and Gilberto gives us much needed experience. He has taken on that role superbly and for me has been a true leader on the pitch last season. As for his play, there are two types of defensive midfielders; Those that tackle and those that 'Break things up'. Gilberto certainly falls into the 2nd category. Unfortunately for him he will always be compared to Vieira as he effectively took over from Patrick as our midfield leader. Lets face it, will anyone ever compare favourably to the great Patrick Vieira??!

Also when we're defending set pieces (which lets face it we're not very good at!!) just count up how many times it's Gilberto getting his head on it to clear. Alot of his work goes unnoticed, but unfortunately his pasing can stand out!!

In short, take him out of the team and we might be a better passing unit but we'll be worse of overall. Gilberto allows Cesc freedom which should never be underestimated. Arsene has publicly said himself that is was a mistake to allow both Vieira and Edu to leave at the same time. I think off the back off this he see's Gilberto as a key figure while our young midfield 'grows up'.

As for the future, it must be Diaby. I hate the 'new Patrick Vieira' comparisons that we've heard oh so many times about so many players. But it is so true with Diaby, the resemblance in style and movement is uncanny. I can see Diaby gradually getting more and more games in the middle as Wenger gradually eases him into his permanent role. Within a year, possibly 2, I think we'll see Gilberto step aside with a job well done and the reigns will be handed to Diaby.

As for now, Gilberto's not perfect but we need him.

[DB10GOONER]

In short, take him out of the team and we might be a better passing unit but we'll be worse of overall. Gilberto allows Cesc freedom which should never be underestimated. Arsene has publicly said himself that is was a mistake to allow both Vieira and Edu to leave at the same time. I think off the back off this he see's Gilberto as a key figure while our young midfield 'grows up'.

As for now, Gilberto's not perfect but we need him.

I wish I could agree Trev, but I can't.

If we cut to the chase here then we have not been a successful team since 2004 (I'm excluding 2005 FA Cup because we were embarrassingly poor that day and got played off the park by the MancFilth).

We have to decide; are we happy finishing 4th and maybe getting a bit of a cup run going and winning the odd cup? Or do we want to continue as a "big" club and be winning the title at least every second year and at least back to back a couple times. If we want the latter (and I do) then we need to be cruel, cynical and honest about our players. Gilberto's faults outweigh his positives. I'm not saying we're unsuccessful soley because of Gilberto but in a passing team the midfield is crucial and he is just not good enough.

And it's a shame because, as I say, I genuinely like the guy. Although I would never question his integrity and commitment to the cause I would also add that he has a bit of a habit of going missing for long spells of our games up north during cold miserable rainy winter days (in fairness to him though he ain't alone there!!).

I do agree wholeheartedly with you that Diaby is the future. He needs games though, lots of them. I think with a good two seasons with 30+ games under his belt and he will be where PV4 was back in 98, 02 and 04.

[T.S]

Given his experience in defence for the last couple of seasons, I reckon Kolo could do a great job in the holding role. Shame we haven't got anyone good enough to cover him at centre back...