http://www.onlinegooner.com/editorial/index.php?id=127
usual thread starter… tell me I’m wrong. Tell me it was a triumphant comeback that will be the springboard for the rest of the season. Tell me the players want it badly. Because that performance wasn’t a great deal different from that at Craven Cottage and against Hull – in terms of attitude – to this observer.
Now can we please see a few players dropped? (4/10)
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80s Gooner
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Sunderland Game
We were awful.
The Denilson experiment hasn't worked. He's far too sloppy with his passes. Having him in the team handicaps Cesc. Which was why Song was brought into the team. Which inturn allowed us no width.
OK Walcott was awful in the first half. But was probably our best player in the second half.
Sagna has looked off the pace recently (which is worrying)
Nasari, Walcott & Cesc need to start every game. I would like to see NB given a
run in the team also.
Arsenal won't win the league. I think the players know it.
I still think that we finish in the top four and strangely enough I fancy our chances in the CL. But don't raise your hopes.
The Denilson experiment hasn't worked. He's far too sloppy with his passes. Having him in the team handicaps Cesc. Which was why Song was brought into the team. Which inturn allowed us no width.
OK Walcott was awful in the first half. But was probably our best player in the second half.
Sagna has looked off the pace recently (which is worrying)
Nasari, Walcott & Cesc need to start every game. I would like to see NB given a
run in the team also.Arsenal won't win the league. I think the players know it.
I still think that we finish in the top four and strangely enough I fancy our chances in the CL. But don't raise your hopes.
I'm not as disappointed as I thought I would be, to be honest.
Maybe because reality had set in following the Hull result, that we still aren't ready to win the title, so I suppose, in the context of getting a top four finish, a point at Sunderland isn't a terrible result.
As for the game itself....
I can understand why we started with a 4-5-1, because as Wenger said in interview, he expected Sunderland to attack more. As it was, they sat back and defending well... so the question must be, why didn't we change back to 4-4-2 and play RvP in the middle again?
he's never going to have an influence on the game from wide left, because he's all left foot... so to stick with Ade as a lone striker, even when up against a defensive wall of 10, I found rather odd... but, Wenger is hardly one for tactical changes, is he 
Anyway, Everton at home next. I think perhaps we should stop searching for the ManUre and Chelsea results from now on, and start concerning ourselves with the results of Villa and Citeh.... as I fear, we may be getting dragged into a battle for 4th this season.
Maybe because reality had set in following the Hull result, that we still aren't ready to win the title, so I suppose, in the context of getting a top four finish, a point at Sunderland isn't a terrible result.
As for the game itself....
I can understand why we started with a 4-5-1, because as Wenger said in interview, he expected Sunderland to attack more. As it was, they sat back and defending well... so the question must be, why didn't we change back to 4-4-2 and play RvP in the middle again?
he's never going to have an influence on the game from wide left, because he's all left foot... so to stick with Ade as a lone striker, even when up against a defensive wall of 10, I found rather odd... but, Wenger is hardly one for tactical changes, is he Anyway, Everton at home next. I think perhaps we should stop searching for the ManUre and Chelsea results from now on, and start concerning ourselves with the results of Villa and Citeh.... as I fear, we may be getting dragged into a battle for 4th this season.
at last an article that sums up the way I have felt for a long time. I think today Wenger is to blame on alot of fronts. I found the contrast in player attitude from how we played against Hull to the Porto game an absolute disgrace. And I dont buy into all this young team with no experience either. Today Wenger got the tactics totally wrong, to play Denilson and Song and leave Nasri on the bench was just baffling. Then to take off Walcott and play Bendtner on the right .....WTF?? I feel sorry for Bendtner, surely now he deserves a run in the team. RVP spends most of last season injured and now seems as if he cant be dropped - for long periods today I didnt even know he was playing. Ade is Ade - needs 7 or 8 chances to score 1. But today I think we could have won with a more positive approach.
I had an argument last week with a fellow gooner. When K. Davies put in that tackle on Glichy I said to him it was hard but fair. He went mental at me and most gooners agree with him. But to me its exactly that what we are missing, someone you is ugly and dont mind hurting a player if its going to drag his team back in the match. We are such a pussy of a team compared to when we had Keown , Vieira etc. It just makes me mad, so many of them going through the motions, we should have been top of this league with the kind start we have been given. It cant carry on like this - I was looking at Wengers record on defenders, its terrible. We dont have one who can head a ball! Going off the point here, just pissed off. We can be up for Porto (the glamour match) but not the others. And I might add we missed fkin loads against Porto yet everyone thinks it was great!
And while im at it, anyone noticed with the season ticket box that was sent they couldnt even address you by name in the letter. Dear supporter, says it all the way this club is heading. £1500 and not even a name on the letter, taking the piss.
I had an argument last week with a fellow gooner. When K. Davies put in that tackle on Glichy I said to him it was hard but fair. He went mental at me and most gooners agree with him. But to me its exactly that what we are missing, someone you is ugly and dont mind hurting a player if its going to drag his team back in the match. We are such a pussy of a team compared to when we had Keown , Vieira etc. It just makes me mad, so many of them going through the motions, we should have been top of this league with the kind start we have been given. It cant carry on like this - I was looking at Wengers record on defenders, its terrible. We dont have one who can head a ball! Going off the point here, just pissed off. We can be up for Porto (the glamour match) but not the others. And I might add we missed fkin loads against Porto yet everyone thinks it was great!
And while im at it, anyone noticed with the season ticket box that was sent they couldnt even address you by name in the letter. Dear supporter, says it all the way this club is heading. £1500 and not even a name on the letter, taking the piss.
sorry guys Im on one, I have to get it out. For the amount they charge I expect better.
Again this is in the past but why let Vieira go (has he won a title every year since he left?). To me our best ever midfielder and yet we didnt want to pay him a big contract - disgraceful. How much better would Cesc be playing with him in the team? Cesc will get frustrated soon and we will have to go through the same old shit next summer. Denilson isnt good enough and its making Fab look half the player he was.
Give Fab the Capt now. He is the future and the spirit of Arsenal.
We need a spine. Why is Gordon in goal for Sunderland and not us?
Seaman, Adams, Vieira, Bergkamp - no wonder we won things then!
Go out and buy a class goaly - i believe confidence comes from the GK onwards. When I look at Almunia I just think he aint got it - am I wrong? Buy a defender who can head the ball and dont mind putting the odd knee in the back. A midfielder who will set Fab free. Ok Im not happy with not having an out and out finisher but with the others in place we can get by.
I'm not talking rocket science here, it just seems so obvious and like I say for the amount they charge us I dont think its too much to ask.
And while they are at it bring back our old badge and get rid of that pathetic fisher price effort of a new one.
Again this is in the past but why let Vieira go (has he won a title every year since he left?). To me our best ever midfielder and yet we didnt want to pay him a big contract - disgraceful. How much better would Cesc be playing with him in the team? Cesc will get frustrated soon and we will have to go through the same old shit next summer. Denilson isnt good enough and its making Fab look half the player he was.
Give Fab the Capt now. He is the future and the spirit of Arsenal.
We need a spine. Why is Gordon in goal for Sunderland and not us?
Seaman, Adams, Vieira, Bergkamp - no wonder we won things then!
Go out and buy a class goaly - i believe confidence comes from the GK onwards. When I look at Almunia I just think he aint got it - am I wrong? Buy a defender who can head the ball and dont mind putting the odd knee in the back. A midfielder who will set Fab free. Ok Im not happy with not having an out and out finisher but with the others in place we can get by.
I'm not talking rocket science here, it just seems so obvious and like I say for the amount they charge us I dont think its too much to ask.
And while they are at it bring back our old badge and get rid of that pathetic fisher price effort of a new one.
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QuartzGooner
- Posts: 14474
- Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:49 pm
- Location: London
Vieiera was let go at exactly the right time..his knees were going and Arsene knew it...he was happy to go too, he knew that in Italy he would need to run less on his knees.JoppaRoad wrote:
Again this is in the past but why let Vieira go (has he won a title every year since he left?). To me our best ever midfielder and yet we didnt want to pay him a big contract - disgraceful. .
As for dropping players, I would really give Wilshere and Ramsey chances off the subs bench, 15 mins per game.
Just see how they do, they bring energy and spark to the team.
Thing is though, Wenger sees them every day in training and we do not.
Other than that, I would move for Reo-Coker in January/summer and also for a tall centre back.
I would also really like to see how Djourou does next to Cesc in central midfield. He is calm, controlled, tackles and passes well.
We could try this in the Carling Cup, with Silvestre and Song making the central defensive partnership.
Not good enough...
I wholeheartedly agree with the article. I think that there is more depth at the squad than what people think, but Wenger doesn't see it that way so players can play with a certain lethargicness which is sickening. These players need to be dropped. What kind of a message does Bendtner (or any youngster) get when he produces a good game with tough scrappy goals like that at Bolton, then sits the bench. Also, how about Ade - clearly needing to ride the pine for a bit as he has been poor recently - consistently starting. Ok - I partially understand why Nasri was dropped as he has been out for a while, but RVP on the wing? It's never worked (at Arsenal) before, so why now. Why not Vela on the wing if Eboue's form (which isn't as bad as some that start) is out of sorts?
Wenger hasn't ever been the most tactically sound coach, but his substitutions border ridiculousness. Why wait until the 70 minute mark to make needed changes?
I am pretty puzzled with Mr. Wenger this season and he certainly is getting found out in the Premiership. It isn't a bad result as we could be coming home with zero points, but still, Wenger needs to be a bit braver and go back to the drawing board because we can expect more results like this if he doesn't.
Wenger hasn't ever been the most tactically sound coach, but his substitutions border ridiculousness. Why wait until the 70 minute mark to make needed changes?
I am pretty puzzled with Mr. Wenger this season and he certainly is getting found out in the Premiership. It isn't a bad result as we could be coming home with zero points, but still, Wenger needs to be a bit braver and go back to the drawing board because we can expect more results like this if he doesn't.
Don't want to get into all that stuff about Vieira - he's gone, end of story.
The crux of the matter up front is that Ade and RvP just don't gel. Yeah, I know they got 2 each against Porto, but they were an incredibly poor team having a bad day at the back. And playing RvP wide left is madness - Ade goes walkabout and there's no-one in the middle. I'm afraid our beloved leader has lost it tactically. That's twice now he's taken Walcott off and put Bendtner - just clogs up the middle and loses us width. I thought Song had another good game today, he gives more bite in midfield so I'm afraid Denilson has to go back to the bench.
I agree heads should roll - but I doubt they will. As I've said before, AW is very loyal to his players and very stubborn on his tactics. If he thinks a square peg will go in a round hole, no-one can talk him out of it. Too many square pegs out there at the moment. I'd drop Ade AND RvP and put Bendtner and Vela out there against Everton, with Nasri on the left. It would give us much more mobility. Djourou for Gallas or Toure too. I'm a bit concerned about how the pressure of captaincy would affect Cesc's form but I guess there's only one way to find out.
The crux of the matter up front is that Ade and RvP just don't gel. Yeah, I know they got 2 each against Porto, but they were an incredibly poor team having a bad day at the back. And playing RvP wide left is madness - Ade goes walkabout and there's no-one in the middle. I'm afraid our beloved leader has lost it tactically. That's twice now he's taken Walcott off and put Bendtner - just clogs up the middle and loses us width. I thought Song had another good game today, he gives more bite in midfield so I'm afraid Denilson has to go back to the bench.
I agree heads should roll - but I doubt they will. As I've said before, AW is very loyal to his players and very stubborn on his tactics. If he thinks a square peg will go in a round hole, no-one can talk him out of it. Too many square pegs out there at the moment. I'd drop Ade AND RvP and put Bendtner and Vela out there against Everton, with Nasri on the left. It would give us much more mobility. Djourou for Gallas or Toure too. I'm a bit concerned about how the pressure of captaincy would affect Cesc's form but I guess there's only one way to find out.
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QuartzGooner
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Vieira himself has said that he simply does not need to work as hard in Italy ...the pace is slower.JoppaRoad wrote:Quartz, cannot agree with you on that at all. Italy is a tough league too. If you are telling me we are better off without him then I think you must be mad!! Vieira brang so much to the team on and off the pitch as well.
He was a brilliant player, but was starting to drop off in the seasons before he left.
We got a good price for him.
The mistake we made was not in selling Vieira (and Edu), it was in not replacing them with Essien.
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QuartzGooner
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Next skipper should be Clichy, leave Cesc alone to concentrate on his game.dkgooner wrote: I'm a bit concerned about how the pressure of captaincy would affect Cesc's form but I guess there's only one way to find out.
As for what you say about strikers, I am happy to persist with RvP and Ade as long as RvP is made the spearhead of the attack, so he can focus on shooting.
Ade should graft behind him.
If RvP is used wide left it does not seem to work.
Rather than that, i would use Ade and Bendtner, with Bendtner playing deeper to provide through balls for Ade.
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6OONER PETE
- Posts: 43
- Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2008 10:50 am
The way things are going at the moment a point at Sunderland unfortunately is not a bad result. It certainly isn't a shock result.
We have carried on from the mistakes we made last year and because we have not brought players in to improve our obvious weaknesses have have probably actually gone backwards.
We have no leaders on the pitch in any department.
In goal Seaman and later Lehman used to boss the penalty area.
In defence Adams or Campbell would dictate how we defended.
In midfield Vieira and later Flamini would take the match by the scruff of the neck if need be.
Up front Wright or Henry would give you a moment of magic even if the team were not playing well.
Cesc seems to be the only player with any sort of pride or urgency when things are not going well. Perhaps he should be made captain.I don't know.
But I agree with the article.Players need to realise that they can be dropped if their peformance is not good enough.
P.S. I know we were poor but it's incredible the number of decisions that go against us. Just like last season again.
We have carried on from the mistakes we made last year and because we have not brought players in to improve our obvious weaknesses have have probably actually gone backwards.
We have no leaders on the pitch in any department.
In goal Seaman and later Lehman used to boss the penalty area.
In defence Adams or Campbell would dictate how we defended.
In midfield Vieira and later Flamini would take the match by the scruff of the neck if need be.
Up front Wright or Henry would give you a moment of magic even if the team were not playing well.
Cesc seems to be the only player with any sort of pride or urgency when things are not going well. Perhaps he should be made captain.I don't know.
But I agree with the article.Players need to realise that they can be dropped if their peformance is not good enough.
P.S. I know we were poor but it's incredible the number of decisions that go against us. Just like last season again.
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proudtosaythatname
- Posts: 678
- Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 2:12 pm
Despite how poor Porto were I did think we'd turned the corner. Not so, it would appear. We did have a bad decision yesterday when the ball didn't cross the line but it took a computer simulation to prove it - straight video evidence was inconclusive.
From the extended Sky highlights the team did seem to lack the desire to win until it was too late and Five Live commentators and the MOTD 'experts' thought that taking Theo off was a poor move. I don't think Wenger has lost the plot, I wouldn't change the Captain mid-season - but the ups and downs are really frustrating. There could be an element of "guaranteed 4th place plus opportunity for Euro glory" causing complacency.
Yet maybe some occasional frustration is what supporting a football team is all about? Do we want Arsenal to be bought by a billionaire and then start making silly bids for the likes of Ronaldo, Buffon, Dean Windass etc?
From the extended Sky highlights the team did seem to lack the desire to win until it was too late and Five Live commentators and the MOTD 'experts' thought that taking Theo off was a poor move. I don't think Wenger has lost the plot, I wouldn't change the Captain mid-season - but the ups and downs are really frustrating. There could be an element of "guaranteed 4th place plus opportunity for Euro glory" causing complacency.
Yet maybe some occasional frustration is what supporting a football team is all about? Do we want Arsenal to be bought by a billionaire and then start making silly bids for the likes of Ronaldo, Buffon, Dean Windass etc?
song hasnt got the engine to boss the midfield.
almunia still cant boss his box ie lehmann and seaman
toure and gallas just cant be proper defenders
eboue,denilson,diaby are just not good enough
ade and rvp are not a good partnership
wenger has made a big mistake by 1) not getting in a proper quality midfielder when he had the chance 2) moaning when teams wont sit back and admire our football 3) playing the same players and not giving vela and ramsey a chance
the buck stops with the manager, he buys the players and he picks the team and tactics .
i hate to say it but it is going to be a long and hard season and in my eyes that is down to wenger and him been pigheaded
teams win games
squads win titles
almunia still cant boss his box ie lehmann and seaman
toure and gallas just cant be proper defenders
eboue,denilson,diaby are just not good enough
ade and rvp are not a good partnership
wenger has made a big mistake by 1) not getting in a proper quality midfielder when he had the chance 2) moaning when teams wont sit back and admire our football 3) playing the same players and not giving vela and ramsey a chance
the buck stops with the manager, he buys the players and he picks the team and tactics .
i hate to say it but it is going to be a long and hard season and in my eyes that is down to wenger and him been pigheaded
teams win games
squads win titles
