http://www.onlinegooner.com/editorial/index.php?id=130
usual thread starter… last night’s capitulation was the kind of thing I expect from the home side at the Lane. Sadly, Arsenal are little better these days.
I’ve a memory of being slated here after condemning the team and the manager early in the season after the Fulham game. I can’t be arsed to look those posts up now, but slate me again by all means. It won’t change anything on the field. Yes, we’ve been hugely entertained by this bunch of young players, but you know what? One of the first things you look to achieve at the start of a match is winning the thing. The entertainment comes next. Priorities have to be re-established at Arsenal, and I am far from convinced they can be under the current manager.
A shambles… of the first degree (30/10)
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bristol411
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 2:28 pm
Glas is still half full
The problem last night was the late substitutions. Replacing Theo, Nasri and RvP for Eboue, Song and Diaby meant that we lost shape and took the foot off the accelerator. It's not just about running the clock off but keeping the ball and applying pressure. We have looked strong in the last quarter of recent matches, but Cesc and Adebayor looked tired. A bad slip by Clichy who has played so well this season let Jenas run at the defence but where was anyone who had a sense of danger? No tackles flying in, the defence just stood by and watched him. it was surreal. And it was moments after I said to my friend that I thought Gallas and Silvestre were a good pairing. And Alumunia didn't help.
It looks like Song and Diaby are not going to help the squad much, so the main problem is not replacing Flamini. However we know that Wenger is still going to do things his way, he believes in his players and they showed a lot of passion for most of the game. And these local derbies do have a life of their own. I don't think we will see many other 4-4 games at Highbury this season. We are 6 points behind Chelsea in 3rd place, the players will learn from last nights game and emerge stronger. We are where we are and I will still support these players and our manager. I'm gutted but life goes on, we'll know more about the squad's real qualities after Man U and Chelsea.
It looks like Song and Diaby are not going to help the squad much, so the main problem is not replacing Flamini. However we know that Wenger is still going to do things his way, he believes in his players and they showed a lot of passion for most of the game. And these local derbies do have a life of their own. I don't think we will see many other 4-4 games at Highbury this season. We are 6 points behind Chelsea in 3rd place, the players will learn from last nights game and emerge stronger. We are where we are and I will still support these players and our manager. I'm gutted but life goes on, we'll know more about the squad's real qualities after Man U and Chelsea.
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gooner.ed
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bristol411 - i admire your objectivity, but arsenal's titles are often won or lost on london derbies. if the players aren't good enough to see out at two goal margin, then something has to change. man utd and chelsea are an irrelevance if we can't beat relegation zone sides, a frequent problem under wenger.
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bergkamp10
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I have to agree with you on this one, specially inadequate defending really caused us toloose two points last night. The main problem is under Wenger the team know no other way to play.gooner.ed wrote:bristol411 - i admire your objectivity, but arsenal's titles are often won or lost on london derbies. if the players aren't good enough to see out at two goal margin, then something has to change. man utd and chelsea are an irrelevance if we can't beat relegation zone sides, a frequent problem under wenger.
Let's hope we learn from this situation very VERY quickly....
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Seven Kings Gooner 1
- Posts: 25
- Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 7:02 am
The game against Stoke is now a real challenge to the team because this game will be a real throw back,(pardon the pun) Stoke will put everything into the box and just attack it, that coupled with Delap's long throws will give Almunia a serious afternoon's work. Our weakest area is our opponents Stoke best strength, make no mistake Stoke see this as their biggest game of the season. I will reserve my judgement on Arsenal and Wenger's future after that game.
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Redexpress
- Posts: 103
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I was trying to convince myself that Sylvestre was the answer to all our defensive problems, but the main worry is that we will now rely on someone who had become a 3rd or 4th choice at the club we are supposed to be challenging for the title.
this was the type of buying strategy of Harry Redknapp at portsmouth, and their ambition is to stay in the league ans maybe get a uefa cup place.
it has been said many times that this type of result should wake Arsene up to the reality of what we need. Even if this happens, restrengthening in January might be too late and another season slips by.
2 possible results from last night; 1. players get self inflicted kick up the arse, and spark up for the rest of the season. 2. it has the same effect as birmingham last season and we are in serious trouble.
this was the type of buying strategy of Harry Redknapp at portsmouth, and their ambition is to stay in the league ans maybe get a uefa cup place.
it has been said many times that this type of result should wake Arsene up to the reality of what we need. Even if this happens, restrengthening in January might be too late and another season slips by.
2 possible results from last night; 1. players get self inflicted kick up the arse, and spark up for the rest of the season. 2. it has the same effect as birmingham last season and we are in serious trouble.
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bigreddave
- Posts: 333
- Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 5:35 pm
Good read and and I agree with you 100% it's time to wake up and smell the coffee, this team isn't and never will be good enough to compete for either the premiership or champions league. Can anyone honestly say hand on heart that we are either capable of beating the likes of chelsea and man. united on the domestic front or the likes of real madrid and barcelona on the european stage? come on folks with a side that consists of mediocre players like Eboue, Song, Gallas and Denilson to name a few any one who disagrees needs their heads testing! If we are lucky in either the carling or FA cups and get a few favorable draws then maybe we could sneak one of those two but I won't be holding out for much this year and I hate to sound so downbeat but the facts don't lie, this team isn't good enough PERIOD!
been sensible for a minute and i hate to slag any arsenal player off but simple fact is don't for one minute think we will win anything with the squad we have,
centre half's are not good defenders and that goes for all of them, our midfield looks unbalanced and we really do need some aggression in there and our forwards for all the chances that come there way are just not prolific enough, adebayor wouldn't get 10 goals a season in a shit team and he is our main striker,as for the goalkeeper well i think it was augie who said he was the worst arsenal keeper for 30 years and i would have to agree and i remember the likes of woods ,miller and rimmer, almunia has to go, just has too, the man is a clown and is nowhere good enough for a team that has ambitions to win things and how wenger doesnt see this is beyond me
centre half's are not good defenders and that goes for all of them, our midfield looks unbalanced and we really do need some aggression in there and our forwards for all the chances that come there way are just not prolific enough, adebayor wouldn't get 10 goals a season in a shit team and he is our main striker,as for the goalkeeper well i think it was augie who said he was the worst arsenal keeper for 30 years and i would have to agree and i remember the likes of woods ,miller and rimmer, almunia has to go, just has too, the man is a clown and is nowhere good enough for a team that has ambitions to win things and how wenger doesnt see this is beyond me
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Flaminal Planet
- Posts: 23
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yeh yeh i know i havent changed my name from last season...
Just wanted to add to everything that is being said about the defence that our attack was shit which i think was the biggest problem last night.
i know it sounds strange to say that about a game we scored 4 in but most obviosuly if Adebeyor puts away a free shot on goal from 8 yards then it would have ben a completely different story!
basically the attack should take as much of the blame as the defence i think. Why do our forwards always control it and go straight back, not even keeping possession all the time? They have a responsability to keep the ball up which should have been an easy taks against probably the shittest spurs team for ages!
I think the lack of guts and responsability we took going fowards was summed up when Diaby, having being presented with the ball by Gomez in our centre circle, has Adebeyor and achres of space ahead of him to the left with minimal spud cover passes it straight back to Gomez to launch it hight at our defence!
Anyone else think the attacking play let us down?
Just wanted to add to everything that is being said about the defence that our attack was shit which i think was the biggest problem last night.
i know it sounds strange to say that about a game we scored 4 in but most obviosuly if Adebeyor puts away a free shot on goal from 8 yards then it would have ben a completely different story!
basically the attack should take as much of the blame as the defence i think. Why do our forwards always control it and go straight back, not even keeping possession all the time? They have a responsability to keep the ball up which should have been an easy taks against probably the shittest spurs team for ages!
I think the lack of guts and responsability we took going fowards was summed up when Diaby, having being presented with the ball by Gomez in our centre circle, has Adebeyor and achres of space ahead of him to the left with minimal spud cover passes it straight back to Gomez to launch it hight at our defence!
Anyone else think the attacking play let us down?
I think more and more people are beginning to realise that Arsene doesn't 'know' or maybe he does but he's too stubborn to do anything about it.
It's also interesting that people are saying 'oh well, let's hope we learn from last night'......well to be honest, we haven't learnt anything from the Fulham and Hull games byt the looks of it so why would we from last night?
Wenger just doesn't seem to have any tactical nous at all. His substitutions are baffling much of the time. I mentioned it in another thread - against Spuds, he brings on three powder puff players in Eboue, Song and Diaby. When was the last time you saw one of those guys win a hard challenge? Yes Diaby is very skillful and good going forward but he's useless when defending. I won't even waste my breath or words on Eboue and Song, these players wouldn't get near Man U or Chelsea reserves, let alone their first team. Wenger upset our shape and took most of our threat away when making the substitutions, opening the door for Spuds.
I am fast losing patience with a manager who seems more interested in saving money and proving a point than he does in winning trophies. George Graham took us to great heights and then bought us crashing down to earth, I think Wenger is looking very much like going the same way to a certain extent.
Of course he is fantastic with young talent, of course he has been great for our club but why can't he see that if he made three quality, experienced signings, a top keeper, centre back and defensive midfielder, mixed them with our youngsters, we would have a fantastic squad!!
All Arsenal fans can see it, the media can see it yet Wenger can't......or he refuses not to??
I stand by my prediciton that Wenger will go by 'mutual consent' at the end of the season, because I don't see how he can stay if we struglle to finish 4th (and let's be honest, we won't finish above Chelsea or Man U and the longer Liverpool go on winning, the bigger trouble we are in)!!
It's also interesting that people are saying 'oh well, let's hope we learn from last night'......well to be honest, we haven't learnt anything from the Fulham and Hull games byt the looks of it so why would we from last night?
Wenger just doesn't seem to have any tactical nous at all. His substitutions are baffling much of the time. I mentioned it in another thread - against Spuds, he brings on three powder puff players in Eboue, Song and Diaby. When was the last time you saw one of those guys win a hard challenge? Yes Diaby is very skillful and good going forward but he's useless when defending. I won't even waste my breath or words on Eboue and Song, these players wouldn't get near Man U or Chelsea reserves, let alone their first team. Wenger upset our shape and took most of our threat away when making the substitutions, opening the door for Spuds.
I am fast losing patience with a manager who seems more interested in saving money and proving a point than he does in winning trophies. George Graham took us to great heights and then bought us crashing down to earth, I think Wenger is looking very much like going the same way to a certain extent.
Of course he is fantastic with young talent, of course he has been great for our club but why can't he see that if he made three quality, experienced signings, a top keeper, centre back and defensive midfielder, mixed them with our youngsters, we would have a fantastic squad!!
All Arsenal fans can see it, the media can see it yet Wenger can't......or he refuses not to??
I stand by my prediciton that Wenger will go by 'mutual consent' at the end of the season, because I don't see how he can stay if we struglle to finish 4th (and let's be honest, we won't finish above Chelsea or Man U and the longer Liverpool go on winning, the bigger trouble we are in)!!
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Quadrant Red
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:30 pm
Kevin, a lot has been said about the arsenal performance after the game last night. But i think you summed it up perfectly before the game in your gooner editorial: Jekyll and Hyde football of the first degree last night. Great attacking football mixed with $hite defensive football.
And to all those that leave the game early...i think i'll join you next time to avoid the agony of last night.
And to all those that leave the game early...i think i'll join you next time to avoid the agony of last night.
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QuartzGooner
- Posts: 14474
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- Location: London
I have faith, because there is NO WAY that Wenger can put his hand on heart and say that this is the squad he would like to have.
He only has to look at the squad four years ago with Vieira, Henry, Pires etc to know this one is not as good.
There is quality coming through, but it is two - three seasons down the line that we will see Wenger's youth project bear fruit.
We are currently seeing the results of:
1). Belt tightening for the last four seasons (the main reason).
2.) Flamini wanting to leave unexpectedly.
3.) Something going wrong this summer in the transfer window, where we failed to get a defensive midfielder.
(Gooner.Ed and others think the club decided not to spend, because of falling property prices.
I think that is very hard to prove considering there IS definitely cash in the bank according to published accounts).
Where I am upset with Wenger is on the defensive coaching.
Three seasons ago we put together a run of 10 unbeaten Champs League games.
With Senderos and Flamini as regular members of that defence!
It surely cannot be a coincidence that it was achieved whilst Keown was helping coach the defence.
He only has to look at the squad four years ago with Vieira, Henry, Pires etc to know this one is not as good.
There is quality coming through, but it is two - three seasons down the line that we will see Wenger's youth project bear fruit.
We are currently seeing the results of:
1). Belt tightening for the last four seasons (the main reason).
2.) Flamini wanting to leave unexpectedly.
3.) Something going wrong this summer in the transfer window, where we failed to get a defensive midfielder.
(Gooner.Ed and others think the club decided not to spend, because of falling property prices.
I think that is very hard to prove considering there IS definitely cash in the bank according to published accounts).
Where I am upset with Wenger is on the defensive coaching.
Three seasons ago we put together a run of 10 unbeaten Champs League games.
With Senderos and Flamini as regular members of that defence!
It surely cannot be a coincidence that it was achieved whilst Keown was helping coach the defence.
But by the time the majority of these youngsters 'come to fruition', we will have lost the best players we have - Fabregas won't be here in 3 years time for instance (highly unlikely anyway). We will be in a permanent transition and we will be a nursery club for the biggest teams in the world. Yes, that is a pretty good business model but the fans aren't so interested in the business side of things!
We're not talking about having to spend 100m and we're not talking about not giving youngsters a chance, we're talking 3 quality players possibly being the difference between winning the league and coming 4th-6th.
I know my football knowledge isn't even in the same galaxy as Wenger's but having watched top flight footy at Arsenal since the early 70's I think it's fairly easy to see where problems lie (even if it's not so easy to see the answers sometimes). Something is not right at Arsenal.
We're not talking about having to spend 100m and we're not talking about not giving youngsters a chance, we're talking 3 quality players possibly being the difference between winning the league and coming 4th-6th.
I know my football knowledge isn't even in the same galaxy as Wenger's but having watched top flight footy at Arsenal since the early 70's I think it's fairly easy to see where problems lie (even if it's not so easy to see the answers sometimes). Something is not right at Arsenal.
