David Dein's own Goal

nice1tomo · Post by **nice1tomo** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:56 am

Ladies and gents. We're getting off the point of what we as fans should be focusing on. It seems that we have succumbed to a percentage of "dodgy" foreign investment. Even if Mr. Murray's piece is true or false. Either way i couldn't trust our new investor as far as i could throw him!

What we should be showing is a clear opposition 2 any take over at The Arsenal. DD has behaved ridiculously. Claiming in the press he has Arsenal's best interests at heart? How much of his new cash has he put into the club??Dn't get me wrong I'm extremley grateful 4 his work in the past at the club. That does not mean we should be fooled into believing his plans for the present and future. He, states that like a fan, he wants 2 see Arsenal become the biggest club in the world. But he is careful not 2 say, but has shown through his actions; that he is willing to jump into with whoever, so he can be the chairman at the club, and make a bob or 75 million along the way.

As the the team under Wenger's godlike guidance are showing, and the board keep on saying we don't need foreign investment. I'd rather do things the way we r now rather than be bank rolled by sum sugar Daddy like the rest of the prem.

Keep the faith people.

Cus Geezer · Post by **Cus Geezer** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:27 am

How much of his new cash has he put into the club??Dn't get me wrong I'm extremley grateful 4 his work in the past at the club

you see it pisses me off greatly when I hear comments like this.

David Dein has taken a grossly disproportionate amount of credit for Arsenal's on field successes over the last 20 years.

Cus Geezer · Post by **Cus Geezer** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:33 am

And if anyone will contend my above statement do note how Arsenal have not capitulated since his departure in April.

The only thing remotely unsettling at Arsenal at the moment are David Dein's actions, not the current board or the current side's actions.

donaldo · Post by **donaldo** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:20 am

Cus Geezer wrote:

David Dein has taken a grossly disproportionate amount of credit for Arsenal's on field successes over the last 20 years.

We would not be where we our now if David Dein did not go to Japan and get Arsene Wenger. No Wenger no Vieira,No Henry,No Pires and no Fabregas the list goes on.How can you say Dein has got a disproportionate amount of credit? Check the record of where Arsenal were before Dein joined the board in 1983 when average gates were 23,000. We were in the same position as the likes of Newcastle,Villa and the Spuds are now.Without Dein there would be no Arsene Wenger.Dein is a visionary who loves the club.And anyone who believes he hasn"t talked to Wenger about his plans is living on cloud cuckoo land

into the red · Post by **into the red** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:25 am

The club have got through a difficult period with the new stadium etc and have come out the other side, with things looking good. But we are now being destabilised with first the Kroenke talk and now the Uzbek gangster. And who is responsible for this destabilisation and uncertainty? The same man who proclaims his undying loyalty blah blah. The man who could have been sitting happily on the board if he hadn't tried to cut a deal behind the board's back. DD seems to be so vain that he can't distinguish between his personal ambition, craving wealth and status, and the club's ambition and status. They are not the same thing, in fact it is becoming clear that to fulfill one man's ego and vanity, the whole history, tradition and ethos of the club must be sold off. If he gets his way.

Cus Geezer · Post by **Cus Geezer** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:30 am

We would not be where we our now if David Dein did not go to Japan and get Arsene Wenger. No Wenger no Vieira,No Henry,No Pires and no Fabregas the list goes on.

And fuck me hasn't he milked that one to death.

into the red · Post by **into the red** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:48 am

Yeah, and he brought in Sven for England, at a ridiculous salary, and was responsible for the Scolari debacle. Just because he made one good decision a long time ago doesn't automatically give him god-like status to take over, regardless of the consequences.

Cus Geezer · Post by **Cus Geezer** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:54 am

Check the record of where Arsenal were before Dein joined the board in 1983 when average gates were 23,000

Check attendences for every other side in 1983, they're much lower than today.

Is David Dein responsible also for Man Ure getting 75,000 every week instead of 50,000, Newcastle getting 50,000 a week instead of 18,000 and Charlton getting 20,000 a week instead of 2,000?

Arsenal took another 4 years to win anything after Dein came, the same distance in time from their last success before he arrived.

When success came it was down to George Graham, a man Dein didn't appoint and a man who did not use financial muscle to win trophies, keeping the clubs pay structure intact.

The last time we won a European trophy it was George at the helm, not Arsene. Would Wenger (or Bergkamp, or Overmars for that matter) have been intersted in joining Arsenal had we not been successful in Europe in the early to mid 1990s? Would Wenger have won the double and thus build the foundation for later success without GG's back five?

And I doubt Wenger's future plans even consider DD's, why is his line with the need for further transfer funds different to Dein?

We are currently a club that is enjoying success on the pitch without throwing money at it and one which by its own admission doesn't need foreign investment.

The future looks like a choice between an American who's not interested in football but profits and a Russian crook who's not interested in football but profits. A situation that is down to one man, Mr. David Dein, one man who trousers hundreds of millions out of this deal.

But you carry on spouting the David Dein PR machine line of 'he has the intersts of Arsenal at heart' just don't expect me to follow suit.

donaldo · Post by **donaldo** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:08 am

Cus
I am only going on the record of Arsenal before Dein and after Dein.And no one can deny the biggest decision the club has made for 70 years was appoint Arsene as manager.Which was down to Dein. Sorry but the facts don"t lie.

Cus Geezer · Post by **Cus Geezer** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:53 am

Sorry but the facts don"t lie

No but there's facts and taking evidence at face value and presenting it as fact.

If the latter were more prevailant in human history we'd still believe that the earth is flat and the sun revolved around the earth.

I ask you a few questions....

1) If Arsene Wenger was 10 years older in 1986, with the reputation that he had gained in France with Monaco would he have taken on the job at an Arsenal that were arguably worse than the one David Dein bought in to in 1983?

2) You stress the importance of Wenger's importance but ignore that of GG's appointment. There's no doubt that a man of Arsene's talents would have eventually been successful, but would he have won the double in 1998 if he had needed to build the side from scratch without GG's defence.

Without that kudos from early success would World Cup winner Thierry Henry and Euro 2000 winner Robert Pires have come to Highbury?

Without early success would David Dein have left Wenger to get on with the job? After all Terry Neil had noted that David Dein had a tendency to interfere at training sessions when he came in 1983.

3) Isn't it lucky that the next great manager was in the place where every self respecting self-made millionaire rubs shoulders? What if Danny Fitszman had picked up a successful manager with Grasshoppers or Xamax Neuchatel in 1996 while tax dodging in Switzerland, would he now be the demagogue that we can't do without? I sincerely hope that should Wenger leave in Dein's watch the next great thing is not in Sweden, the level of taxation there is atrocious.

4) Isn't it odd that Dein chooses now to break his silence and make his move. While allowing certain people in the press to prattle along all summer claiming that Arsenal's loss of Dein was a big one, coupled with Henry's departure and a lack of transfer activity compared with Liverpool and Man United.

With a successful start to the season and easy qualification for the champions league, it rather looked like business (and successful business at that) was to carry on as usual without Dein, in danger of fading into the background. Now with such an axis of evil with Uzmanov the spotlight is back on him again, how very convienient!

Cus Geezer · Post by **Cus Geezer** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:12 pm

Dein is a visionary

I have to find contention with this one too.

This single greatest thing that has happened to Football's finances is satellite television breaking the cartel duopoly of BBC and ITV, meaning that TV revenue was no longer held down.

Unless you give me some credible evidence that David Dein was a scientific genius who had invented the technological means for Satellite Television in the UK, I just assume that he was in the right place at the right time and made a shitload of money out of it.

That is unless you believe that bringing in the hideous yuppie boxes at the clock end that came at the expense of a bigger stand that could have increased Highbury's capacity was visionary, a trend that continued with the bond and thousands of Arsenal's traditional fan base being priced out.

Maybe selling us down the river to a yank who's not interested in 'soccer' and a dodgy Russian oligarch is 'visionary' too?

into the red · Post by **into the red** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:26 pm

Yes, he is such a visionary that he has destabilised the club's future to such an extent that neither any of the board or Dein are certain to be in charge of Arsenal in future but instead an American conglomerate or a Russian racket. Dein is just an employee of the gangster, and has no guarantee that he will be there in the future. Nice one.

gunners-need-steel · Post by **gunners-need-steel** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 4:25 pm

excuse me a minute, into-the-red and cus-geezer while u aim the next stone at David Dein .. wont be long now, and u can go back to ur new found DD-bashing hobby ...

Its common in society for the masses to not think for themselves and to just flow with the tide .. its the DD bashing season, so some jump in and try to outbash the others ...

Folks, calm down a little .. u are going to extremes here ... DD has been great for Arsenal, everyone knows that .. and its laughable to blame him for the FA's problems with appointing Ericsson or the Scolari debacle ...

From the look of things, he has probably made a drastic error of judgement in jumping in with this guy without checking the man's background ... This does not mean that he does not mean well for the club .. as to his pocketing Â£75m for his efforts, I am not sure I understand what your problem is with this ... Chris Evans probably made more than this for less effort ..

I wont even comment on the ridiculous comments about whether AW has been great .. or whether GG has been great and who has been greater .. the context of that argument is nonsensical, and I dont see how it applies to the current topic.

Anyways, seriously, give the man a break .. if he has made a mistake/miscalculation, we are interested in seeing what he does now to remedy the situation ...

Magic Hat · Post by **Magic Hat** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 4:35 pm

How about giving part of his Â£75 million to the board? The reason Dein is blamed for Sven (good choice, way too high wages) is he recommended Sven as he did Scolari, the Fa just bungled it badly rather then Dein though, the two managers were good choices.

Dein has a decent record with picking managers and makes a good Director of Football but getting who Arsene tells him too and I thank him for that but it needs more. Like checking the background of your buyers and good plans like Ashburton over Wembley.

into the red · Post by **into the red** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 5:09 pm

All I'm saying is that if Dein is so great, how come he has made so many enemies on the Arsenal board, at the FA and has left Arsenal with two predators stalking the club, and thus destabilising us? He has deluded himself into thinking he alone knows what is best for the club, and in the process has undermined it. Even if you think he is right that in the future the club may need further investment, there are many ways for the current board to raise extra funds without resorting to this ridiculous 'sugar-daddy' myth, which seems to pervade football at the moment, and means selling the club and its ethos down the river. Just because he was good for the club before doesn't mean he has achieved some sort of god-like genius status where whatever he does must be right. I can't even see Wenger warming to him any more, after he ridiculously tried to hijack the credit for his new contract signing.