THE OLD GG v AW CHESTNUT

goonersid · Post by **goonersid** » Tue May 25, 2010 11:12 am

I know it has probably been debated before, but who you think was the best Wenger or Graham.
I know the football under Wenger has been more pleasing on the eye, (though not necessarily recently)
I however would rate Graham above Wenger, and here are my reasons.
1.Anfield 89â€™ the greatest night in the clubâ€™s history, I think Wenger would have bottled it, even with the invicibles.
2.And on the invincibles, people sometimes forget, that the 90-91 league winning side only lost 1 game that season, and indeed scored more goals and conceded less than the invincibles 74 for; 18 against compared to 73 for; 26 against. So it wasnâ€™t all â€œboringâ€

digger · Post by **digger** » Tue May 25, 2010 11:15 am

They both have similarities.

Both picked up a mid-table team.

Both quickly assembled a team which was good enough to win the league.

Both bothered about the club's finances to a personal level, preventing them from adding real quality to the club.

Both tried to replace quality with inadequacy.

Percy Dalton · Post by **Percy Dalton** » Tue May 25, 2010 11:17 am

For me they both did different jobs for Arsenal at different times.

The one difference for me is that Graham knew he had taken the club as far as he could and was set to leave anyhow. Yes, a misplaced brown envelope speeded things up by a couple of months but it is well known he had decided the best was for him to go anyhow.

Wenger has refused to see his best days are behind him and continues to use Arsenal Football Club like his own personal science lab in which he tries to create football utopia.

That speaks volumes for me.

Post by **flash gunner** » Tue May 25, 2010 11:23 am

I regard my era as George Grahams time at the club i used to go every home game and a lot of away games. Although GG did magic with Arsenal and gave me my best memeories as a gooner i think by sheer number of Doubles, FA cups i think AW is the greatest manager ever at Arsenal

The strange thing is the similarities of the way it is ending for both men, having brilliant teams that slowly got replaced by average players, i thik Wengers time is up im afraid

Percy Dalton · Post by **Percy Dalton** » Tue May 25, 2010 11:24 am

I am just surprised nobody ever inclues Stewart Houston and Rioch in these debates!

donaldo · Post by **donaldo** » Tue May 25, 2010 11:42 am

When GG took over we had suffered 7 years of hell.A team going nowhere under awful management.Average gates down to 20,000.

What GG gave us Arsenal fans again was pride.Proud to be a Gooner

He created the best back 5 ever,And his 6 trophies in 8 years is an outstanding record

Anfield 89.Never to be forgotten

Won a European trophy against all odds

Wenger is our greatest manger but has gone on two seasons too long .He should have gone in 2008.The man that created great teams is now stuck on his project to win things with lightweight players.He really does seem to have lost the plot

Bendtners Drinking Buddy · Tue May 25, 2010 11:49 am

I still see this as yet another another excuse to have a go at Wenger, but im quite interested in this point so il get involved...

It would be interesting to see the age of people and their choice between the two. The point being, although i remember many of GG's greatest achievments very clearly (Cup double, CWC, '91) - id still say Wenger every single time - purely because he has transformed the club onto the European scene in a major way and revolutionsed football in the wider community as well. To win the Premiership unbeaten was an amazing feat, and that is just one of the many things he has acheived, the last few years have been barron, but we have still been in semi finals and finals and have competed for the title in 2 of the last 3 seasons...so with the right investment (which is they key bit!) I do not agree Wenger cannot acheive more with Arsenal, i refuse to look at just the past couple of seasons, over the 12 years he has been with us he has been fantastic - in my view he should be given this season to have a go at it, he himself has said we need signings and said "two or three" will be coming in - the minium that guy deserves is a chance to win the league next season - its not the view on this condensed platform here, but if you asked every Arsenal Fan out there Im pretty sure most would agree with that view.

Is this because being in my mid-twenties a lot more of my adolescent and memorable football times have been in the Wenger era? Maybe, can't ignore that point - but i refuse to subscribe to the view that anyone under a certain age can only see Wenger and nothing more, thats pure bollocks - but for me Wenger, despite a few barron years is one of the greatest managers in Premiership History, let alone Arsenal's. None of this is withstanding the fact GG was at best as bent as a ten bob note!!!

"Wenger has transformed Arsenal from a good domestic club side into a World Club side"......do you know who said that? George Graham!

Percy Dalton · Post by **Percy Dalton** » Tue May 25, 2010 11:52 am

Can we be really clear!

I am full of admiration for Wenger in the same way I was for Henry! Both have acheived remarkable things for the club.

However, when it was clear we hd seen the best from Henry it was time for him to go with our thanks and best wishes.

Why it shouldn't be the same for Wenger I will never know!

goonersid · Post by **goonersid** » Tue May 25, 2010 11:54 am

Bendtners Drinking Buddy wrote:I still see this as yet another another excuse to have a go at Wenger, but im quite interested in this point so il get involved...

It would be interesting to see the age of people and their choice between the two. The point being, although i remember many of GG's greatest achievments very clearly (Cup double, CWC, '91) - id still say Wenger every single time - purely because he has transformed the club onto the European scene in a major way and revolutionsed football in the wider community as well. To win the Premiership unbeaten was an amazing feat, and that is just one of the many things he has acheived, the last few years have been barron, but we have still been in semi finals and finals and have competed for the title in 2 of the last 3 seasons...so with the right investment (which is they key bit!) I do not agree Wenger cannot acheive more with Arsenal, i refuse to look at just the past couple of seasons, over the 12 years he has been with us he has been fantastic - in my view he should be given this season to have a go at it, he himself has said we need signings and said "two or three" will be coming in - the minium that guy deserves is a chance to win the league next season - its not the view on this condensed platform here, but if you asked every Arsenal Fan out there Im pretty sure most would agree with that view.

Is this because being in my mid-twenties a lot more of my adolescent and memorable football times have been in the Wenger era? Maybe, can't ignore that point - but i refuse to subscribe to the view that anyone under a certain age can only see Wenger and nothing more, thats pure bollocks - but for me Wenger, despite a few barron years is one of the greatest managers in Premiership History, let alone Arsenal's. None of this is withstanding the fact GG was at best as bent as a ten bob note!!!

"Wenger has transformed Arsenal from a good domestic club side into a World Club side"......do you know who said that? George Graham!

I wouldn't believe anything that man says if I were you.

Bendtners Drinking Buddy · Tue May 25, 2010 11:56 am

goonersid wrote:
Bendtners Drinking Buddy wrote:I still see this as yet another another excuse to have a go at Wenger, but im quite interested in this point so il get involved...

It would be interesting to see the age of people and their choice between the two. The point being, although i remember many of GG's greatest achievments very clearly (Cup double, CWC, '91) - id still say Wenger every single time - purely because he has transformed the club onto the European scene in a major way and revolutionsed football in the wider community as well. To win the Premiership unbeaten was an amazing feat, and that is just one of the many things he has acheived, the last few years have been barron, but we have still been in semi finals and finals and have competed for the title in 2 of the last 3 seasons...so with the right investment (which is they key bit!) I do not agree Wenger cannot acheive more with Arsenal, i refuse to look at just the past couple of seasons, over the 12 years he has been with us he has been fantastic - in my view he should be given this season to have a go at it, he himself has said we need signings and said "two or three" will be coming in - the minium that guy deserves is a chance to win the league next season - its not the view on this condensed platform here, but if you asked every Arsenal Fan out there Im pretty sure most would agree with that view.

Is this because being in my mid-twenties a lot more of my adolescent and memorable football times have been in the Wenger era? Maybe, can't ignore that point - but i refuse to subscribe to the view that anyone under a certain age can only see Wenger and nothing more, thats pure bollocks - but for me Wenger, despite a few barron years is one of the greatest managers in Premiership History, let alone Arsenal's. None of this is withstanding the fact GG was at best as bent as a ten bob note!!!

"Wenger has transformed Arsenal from a good domestic club side into a World Club side"......do you know who said that? George Graham!
I wouldn't believe anything that man says if I were you.

haha, il give you that one sid for pure ingenuity!! Quick as Well!

Bendtners Drinking Buddy · Tue May 25, 2010 11:56 am

Percy Dalton wrote:Can we be really clear!

I am full of admiration for Wenger in the same way I was for Henry! Both have acheived remarkable things for the club.

However, when it was clear we hd seen the best from Henry it was time for him to go with our thanks and best wishes.

Why it shouldn't be the same for Wenger I will never know!

Because some people don't agree that Wenger cannot take us any further.....

Percy Dalton · Post by **Percy Dalton** » Tue May 25, 2010 12:03 pm

Bendtners Drinking Buddy wrote:
Percy Dalton wrote:Can we be really clear!

I am full of admiration for Wenger in the same way I was for Henry! Both have acheived remarkable things for the club.

However, when it was clear we hd seen the best from Henry it was time for him to go with our thanks and best wishes.

Why it shouldn't be the same for Wenger I will never know!
Because some people don't agree that Wenger cannot take us any further.....

Thats fine, people are entitled to their opinion.

If others though differ it doesnt mean they have a vendetta against the guy.

Bendtners Drinking Buddy · Tue May 25, 2010 12:07 pm

Percy Dalton wrote:
Bendtners Drinking Buddy wrote:
Percy Dalton wrote:Can we be really clear!

I am full of admiration for Wenger in the same way I was for Henry! Both have acheived remarkable things for the club.

However, when it was clear we hd seen the best from Henry it was time for him to go with our thanks and best wishes.

Why it shouldn't be the same for Wenger I will never know!
Because some people don't agree that Wenger cannot take us any further.....
Thats fine, people are entitled to their opinion.

If others though differ it doesnt mean they have a vendetta against the guy.

Ive not said otherwise, ive just said why I personally choose Wenger. The Wenger comment was not directly aimed at you but you would be a bit shortsighted (more than the man himself) to not see that Wenger isnt the most popular man on this Forum!!!

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Tue May 25, 2010 12:13 pm

One myth in all this needs to be nailed.

The fallacy that we paid 'boring' football under George and 'brilliant' football under Wenger.

Really ?

Anfield '89 boring ?
Copenhagen CWC boring ??
Winning the title in '91 losing only one game. Boring ?

Yes in his last 18 months it was poor fare.

Conversely, with Wenger we played 'brilliant' football when we had 'brilliant' players like Pires, Henry, TA, DB and Pat.

Did we really play 'brilliant' football last season ? The best football I saw was when Barca came to the Emirates. Trouble was it was Barca playing the brilliant football, certainly in the first hour.

Was it 'brilliant' football at Wigan and Blackburn and Spurs ?

Don't think so.

Like I said, 'brilliant' football requires 'brilliant' players and we are rather short on those right now.

PI7ES · Post by **PI7ES** » Tue May 25, 2010 12:16 pm

Rob wrote:One myth in all this needs to be nailed.

The fallacy that we paid 'boring' football under George and 'brilliant' football under Wenger.

Really ?

Anfield '89 boring ?
Copenhagen CWC boring ??
Winning the title in '91 losing only one game. Boring ?

Yes in his last 18 months it was poor fare.

Conversely, with Wenger we played 'brilliant' football when we had 'brilliant' players like Pires, Henry, TA, DB and Pat.

Did we really play 'brilliant' football last season ? The best football I saw was when Barca came to the Emirates. Trouble was it was Barca playing the brilliant football, certainly in the first hour.

Was it 'brilliant' football at Wigan and Blackburn and Spurs ?

Don't think so.

Like I said, 'brilliant' football requires 'brilliant' players and we are rather short on those right now.

We were so outplayed in that final is was funny, Seaman kept us in it, they hit the post and we scored with probably our only shot. Although campbell missed a sitter or a header that hit his shoulder.

So yes wengers team play much better football than GG in my opinion.