More Important Than Football

[Cus Geezer]

We have a battle going on for our football club and the argument revolves around what is best for the Arsenal.

I think it is important to dwell on the two new 'friends' of David Dein who have been brought to the Arsenal table in the last 12 months.

In Kronke we have a Wal-Mart heir. Wal-Mart are as much a part of corporate America as apple pie (or whatever that stupid cliche that the yanks spout is!). They are a company that are known for hiring former FBI agents to spy on its American employees who may conspire to form a trade union.

Now before we get into the Sun reading Union bashing stuff, lets bear in mind a few things. Many of Wal-Mart's US employees are on the minimum wage and Wal-Mart have faced law suits for things like failing to provide meal breaks to nearly 116,000 hourly workers as required under state law and pressuring employees to work off the clock. Wal-Mart are also known for their sweatshops in China and child labour in Bangladesh.

This website has the full details: http://www.wakeupwalmart.com/facts/.

I'm not sure that this is exactly what Hill Wood was referring to when he said he didn't want Kronke's sort at Arsenal, but I tell you what folks I certainly don't want his sort on the board at Arsenal. Mr. Kronke, if you've got £500 million to spend I'd really rather you paid your factory workers and your domestic menial workers a living wage than pump money into a club so an average player can still buy himself a mansion and a youth team player of 17 can buy a sports car.

And as for Usmanov, well I think we all know the rumoured less savory aspects of his character. But let's look at another angle here, Usmanov has got rich off the back of the natural resources of Russia/Uzbekistan and yet his capital is ending up here in London. Why not buy a Russian side, they do after all have football sides in Russia?

In fact since 1994 an average of US$20 Billion of capital a year has flown out of Russia. I'm no Adam Smith, but I'd guess that this would lead to great economic instability in Russia and poor living standards for the natives. In fact let's ask ourselves a question, why is it that even though immigration restrictions have existed for over a century it is only in the last 15 years that we see people nearly killing themselves and putting their lives in the hands of ruthless criminals in order to get to EU countries, surely this flight of capital is a big aspect in that?

Again, Mr Usmanov if you've got such a great amount of cash to spend that emanates directly from Russia's natural resources I'd much rather you spent it there than give a spoilt football £150K a week and a cut for his agent.

I know this may be like shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted, after all we have a stadium named after an airline owned by a autocratic middle eastern monarchical dictatorship and for nearly 15 years our kit has been made by Nike - themselves having issues over sweatshops and child labour. However this would be different - the ugly side of globalisation would be sitting in our boardroom and owning our club. Yes the Arsenal are a global brand, but associated with the more Benign end of that - merely watching a multi-national football side play on satellite telly. What looks like coming our way is the ugly malignant side of all that.

And I tell you what folks, I have followed Arsenal for 23 of my 29 years on this earth and I would rather the club fell out of champions league qualification, fall below Spurs in the table and even spent time in the Championship than deepen it's association with the human misery incurred by such Multi-nationals.

You might call it hipocracy, after all I don't boycott TNC's or any of that - but Nike, McDonalds, 20th Century Fox are not part of my identity. I don't subsidise their products when they are crap and I have never sung songs in unquestioning praise of them along with 60,000 others.

[DB10GOONER]

Very well thought out article Cus.

I too am totally against the likes of Silent Stan or Jabba The Ruskie taking over our club. For all of the very valid reasons you mention, but also on a more selfish Gooner basis too.

The current board are not perfect (especially the figure head chairman, P-Diddy Wood - see Gooner Ed's article about the man's performance at our AGM ) but they are not landing us in huge long-term debt for their own short term profit as SS and JTR would. Indeed they have very shrewdly put us in a very strong financial position and without having to rent poxy Wembley (thank you very much Mr Dein!).

Arguably, we have the best manager in the world.

Let's not forget Arsene was appointed by the board, NOT Dein; even though Dein "discovered" him, the board made the final decision to take a huge risk and appoint him, albeit on Dein's recommendation, so credit where credit is due. But it was the board that chose to follow that advice and this (along with the new stadium) demonstrates that they are open to suggestions and ideas (no matter how radical). This board have often been criticised as old, fuddy duddy's etc, but it shows real vision to take a risk like appointing AW when they did. He was unknown and unproven at the highest level.

As I say the current board are not perfect but what is in this world? I ask all the board-haters on here (particularly augie - I'm not making a personal attack on you here augie, but you are probably the most vocal critic of the board on here) one question;

Name one other club's board in the League (or the world) you would rather replace our board with? Tottenshite's? Manure's? Derby's? Chav$ki's? The list goes on and this is obviously just a hypothetical exercise but if you had to choose, I'm sure everyone of you would choose our current board.

Not perfect but far far better than any other board around...

[REB]

big read there cus
its stans wife who is part of the wal/mart family,,
stan has interests in lots of sports team and cant see fbi agents following arsene wenger etc
em talking about minimum wage just how much do the catering staff get at arsenal,, would it be minimum wage by any means

[All_Arsenal_1886]

A good read there Gus but to be honest t think we would find members of our board right now might not be whiter than white, but i totally understand where your going with it and i am against a takeover but im not against investment.

stan has interests in lots of sports team and cant see fbi agents following arsene wenger etc

Rebel i had to laugh at the because i now have imagies in my head

[Cus Geezer]

big read there cus
its stans wife who is part of the wal/mart family,,
stan has interests in lots of sports team and cant see fbi agents following arsene wenger etc
em talking about minimum wage just how much do the catering staff get at arsenal,, would it be minimum wage by any means

Well according to his wikipedia entry

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stan_Kroenke

Since his marriage to Walton, he has been in the special position to develop many of the plazas near Wal-Mart stores.

So it looks as if his business dealings are not totally seperate from Wal-Mart. And of course being married to someone high up in Wal-Mart will do as much for your business credibility as being friends with Saddam Hussein would be for the credibility of a politician.

At the end of the day it's about the culture of corporate America entering not just English football but taking over your club - where the moral justification for anything is making a buck. Do you want this - I certainly do not. And with £70m profit last year nor do we need it.

As for corporate espionage and Arsene Wenger - well Wenger and his players are in a powerful enough position to negotiate on their own terms, so there will be no worries there.

And as for the catering staff, granted they are not on a king's ransom, but do you reckon they are currently pressured to work off the clock (i.e. put in extra hours for free), if they work a seven hour day are they pressured to work without a meal break?

At the end of the day do you want the financial support of your club and lining the pockets of people like this to be indistinguishable, especially with talk of the club paying out dividends and especially as I hear that Kroenke likes to splash the cash with his NHL franchise.

[Cus Geezer]

big read there cus
its stans wife who is part of the wal/mart family,,
stan has interests in lots of sports team and cant see fbi agents following arsene wenger etc
em talking about minimum wage just how much do the catering staff get at arsenal,, would it be minimum wage by any means

Well according to his wikipedia entry

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stan_Kroenke

Since his marriage to Walton, he has been in the special position to develop many of the plazas near Wal-Mart stores.

So it looks as if his business dealings are not totally seperate from Wal-Mart. And of course being married to someone high up in Wal-Mart will do as much for your business credibility as being friends with Saddam Hussein would be for the credibility of a politician.

At the end of the day it's about the culture of corporate America entering not just English football but taking over your club - where the moral justification for anything is making a buck. Do you want this - I certainly do not. And with £70m profit last year nor do we need it.

I for one do not.

As for corporate espionage and Arsene Wenger - well Wenger and his players are in a powerful enough position to negotiate on their own terms, so there will be no worries there.

And as for the catering staff, granted they are not on a king's ransom, but do you reckon they are currently pressured to work off the clock (i.e. put in extra hours for free), if they work a seven hour day are they pressured to work without a meal break?

At the end of the day do you want the financial support of your club and lining the pockets of people like this to be indistinguishable, especially with talk of the club paying out dividends and especially as I hear that Kroenke likes to splash the cash with his NHL franchise.

[REB]

thats just stupid to bring up some ones buisness interests in relation to arsenal when it clearly has nothing to do with it and again its not stan thats involed with wal/mart but development near the stores sccording to your own reply and yes they would be a company i wouldnt like to work for,,
do you think our directors never got involed in a company that payed minimum wage,, the hill woods themselfs closed down mills putting thousands on the bread line,, our chairman is a tax exile so paying fuck all tax to the goverment,, we are sponserd by a country with serious human rights issue,, democracy anyone look at an arsenal shirt and see where its made
minimum wage they should be so lucky

[Wayno]

Cus, I am sorry but I may share your love for Arsenal but I certainly do not share the opinions put across in your posting.

[T.S]

You know what? I was going to do a blow by blow reply to this, but I got half way through and I got bored. Cus, I take your point and I encourage talk on this forum which isn't the usual "I'm going to work" like Stearmaster or whatever. After all, it is spelled correctly. However, I take issue with this piece you've written. It is totally one sided and is poorly researched. You cite Wikipedia as a source of your information. This says it all. Wikipedia is not a credible source as anyone can edit it. And of course the other website you cited is going to say mean and nasty things about Wal-Mart, because they're a pressure group who are against them (I assume, I couldn't be arsed to actually look). I reiterate, this is completely one sided. Things like this are never black and white.

Do you think that our current board are whiter than white? In fact, how many billionaires out there who have the financial clout to buy Arsenal Football Club are? My guess would be not many.

Am I saying that sweatshops are a good thing? No. Am I saying that Stan Kroenke has obtained all of his wealth through just means? No. But the point is, is that these kinds of corporations who employ kids to stitch a Nike logo on to a shirt for a couple of pence are a part of western economy. Like it or not, our economy is built on that shit. In the same way, America wouldn't be the global power it is today without the years of slavery it had. Is it justifying slavery? No, but it is a fact. These sweatshops are not going to go away any time soon, and a whinge on a football site isn't going to make the slightest bit of difference. You harp on about economic instability in Russia like you give a fuck, but where do you think our economic stability is coming from. Mate, you seriously need to open your eyes before writing a piece like this.

Maybe I'm getting a little carried away with my response to this and maybe I'm talking a load of shit. It wouldn't be the first time. But the reason that I took such issue with this thread you started is the fact that it seems so xenophobic and bloody narrow minded. I think this quote sums your whole post up.

In Kronke we have a Wal-Mart heir. Wal-Mart are as much a part of corporate America as apple pie (or whatever that stupid cliche that the yanks spout is!).

How cute. If you want to get all high and mighty about this, so can I. By all means, have an opinion. It's good that you have a different opinion from I, as if we agreed all the time, we'd have nothing to talk about. But please do not make me waste my time again by having to read more of this one sided drivel. I actually laughed out loud when I saw you cite Wikipedia as a source. You're not seeing the bigger picture at all.

I mean, Christ. Look at this paragraph;

In fact since 1994 an average of US$20 Billion of capital a year has flown out of Russia. I'm no Adam Smith, but I'd guess that this would lead to great economic instability in Russia and poor living standards for the natives. In fact let's ask ourselves a question, why is it that even though immigration restrictions have existed for over a century it is only in the last 15 years that we see people nearly killing themselves and putting their lives in the hands of ruthless criminals in order to get to EU countries, surely this flight of capital is a big aspect in that?

What the fuck has that got to do with Arsenal Football Club? I'm not saying the stuff you've just said is justifiable, but it's just listing bad things that have happened for the sake of it. I feel as though I'm not going to get through to you. Maybe you feel I've been a bit too aggressive, who knows? I'm not going to ramble on as I feel you get the point. I have no problem with you but I don't like this piece you've written.

[Magic Hat]

Remember Henry Norris bad record of being a good boy.

[thatgooner]

Cus G i completly agree.
If either of these clowns take over our club it would be a bad bad BAD day.
I quite like our board, i wish we still had dein on our side, but he turned into a money hungry power driven man and simply had to go.
I think the new 'lockdown' is a great concept and hope that it will be extended in the future.
I wouldnt swap our board for any other and i think a good move would be for the current board members to begin buying shares, either from minor shareholders or hopefully, R&W holdings / stan Kronke.

Great thread Cus Geezer.

[T.S]

You agree completely with Cus that these "clowns" shouldn't take over our club (presumably) because of their dodgy dealings, and yet you're full of praise for our current board; that's hypocritical. Do you really think PHW and the Hill-Wood family got their wealth through being lovely honest people who would never harm a soul? Give me a break.

I agree that it is a good thread in that it encourages discussion, though.

[thatgooner]

Yeah i do,
fair enough, our board aren't exactly saints, But i dont think that they compare to what kronke and especially usmanov stand for.
I know who i'd rather work for anyway.

Gooners on this board dislike the whole Emirates stadium concept, I think that if SK or Usmanov buy us out eveything will be to make money, everything will be sponsered and we would have no control, at least now there's many shareholders who are actually arsenal fans.

[Wayno]

Well I think I like the idea of sweat shops, they keep the price of goods down, I'm a consumer. they also keep lots of families in clothes and food, not such a bad thing. If you think for one moment that I am going to stop going to football because Nike sponsor our team or because US Stan works for WalMart, then you must be on some other fucking planet or a student that has decided to try and save the world through football. You can take your fuckin views and stick them up your own arse but please don't expect me to sit here and agree.

Have you ever felt the hairs on the back of your neck stand on end when you hear on the radio them talk about an up and coming match, feel like going all political or just shouting COME ON ARSENAL!!!!!! I doubt it very much.

[thatgooner]

Wayno, I must ask, are you pro takeover?

I will still go to the games if US stan takesover aswell and no i dont expect you to sit there and agree, if everyone had the same opinion then there would be no forums would there.

There's nothing wrong with sweatshops i quite agree, but i think the workers must be treated right.
But no, im not a high student tryin to save the world, infact im all for a bit of global warming.