Keown suggest Arsene go back to 4-4-1-1

[Spiral]

In this article linked below, what do you guys think ?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... senal.html

[SWLGooner]

I've been saying this for ages! 4-4-1-1 or 4-4-2 is the way to go

But will Wenger listen? NO!

[Nos89]

Yep, been saying this all summer. He's actually bought the players to function in this formation. Gervinho, Chamberlain proper wide players. Utd played that formation on sunday. RVP and Theo down the middle.

[Spiral]

So you guys agree that without Fab ,the current system is not needed, or you guys never liked it in the first place.

[1989]

Gervinho --- Frimpong --- Wilshere --- New Signing
----------------- RvP ---------Walcott -----------------

[safcftm]

Not an expert on all things Arsenal but I dont really see how 4-4-1-1 would work any better than a 4-5-1. Nowadays too many people put too much stock in formations when really all you need is the right kind of players no matter what system (within reason) you use. If you play 4-4-1-1 I am assuming you would need to play RVP in the "Bergkamp" role behind the striker, but whilst he might have the technical ability to do this I think you would lose some of his goals, and I dont think you have the right man to play in front of him. Equally if you play RVP up top, I dont think you have anyone good enough to operate effectively in the role behind him. I think Walcott could make a striker but he isnt intelligent enough to play off the striker and he isnt strong enough to play the leading forward role- he really needs to be in a 4-4-2 if he's to play up front.

With 4-4-1-1 as opposed to 4-5-1 I would also be worried that the loss of a central midfielder would make it too easy for teams to take the middle of the pitch against Arsenal. A central midfield with just Song and Wilshere wouldn't be too effective imo, much though Wilshere is a class act. A lot of the Arsenal midfielders just seem too lightweight for a 2 man central midfield to operate effectively and if you end up allowing the opposition more of the ball and to overrun you in central midfield, you risk exposing the defence even more and, at the minute, they simply dont look strong enough as individuals or as a unit to cope.

I might well be wrong, maybe 4-4-1-1 could work, but I think you'd need another strong midfielder in there, another strong centre back, and a good powerful striker. Since you need about 3 signings anyway, this would hardly be a quick fix. It'll be interesting to see who he does go for and how he tries to play though

[brazilianGOONER]

great article and i think keown speaks great sense in every fucking thing there.

i'd love to see rvp playing behind (steady KJ) another striker, as he comes too deep to get the ball and most of times our wingers actually have no one to cross the ball to (or pass it). rvp is a cracking player, but i'd like to see how he would do in a bergkamp role. no the same type of player, but could work.

we play this fucking 4-3-3 because of cesc and now that he's gone there's no single reason to keep it.

[brazilianGOONER]

Gervinho --- Frimpong --- Wilshere --- New Signing
----------------- RvP ---------Walcott -----------------

you are kidding that you want frimpong to be a first choice midfielder this season right?

[Red Gunner]

I wanted us to play 4-3-3 after Barcelona's success but I hate that system now. We just don't have the players to do it, and Wenger doesn't know this system well. It was obvious from the moment he played Eduardo who is a fox-in-the-box on the left wing, and then played Bendtner on the right wing. And this formation is sometimes too negative against weaker teams. Also we sometimes have two guys not knowing whether they are supposed to be forwards or wingers. This formation sometimes turns to 4-5-1 and 4-2-3-1, with us not getting enough forwards.

[brazilianGOONER]

Not an expert on all things Arsenal but I dont really see how 4-4-1-1 would work any better than a 4-5-1. Nowadays too many people put too much stock in formations when really all you need is the right kind of players no matter what system (within reason) you use. If you play 4-4-1-1 I am assuming you would need to play RVP in the "Bergkamp" role behind the striker, but whilst he might have the technical ability to do this I think you would lose some of his goals, and I dont think you have the right man to play in front of him. Equally if you play RVP up top, I dont think you have anyone good enough to operate effectively in the role behind him. I think Walcott could make a striker but he isnt intelligent enough to play off the striker and he isnt strong enough to play the leading forward role- he really needs to be in a 4-4-2 if he's to play up front.

With 4-4-1-1 as opposed to 4-5-1 I would also be worried that the loss of a central midfielder would make it too easy for teams to take the middle of the pitch against Arsenal. A central midfield with just Song and Wilshere wouldn't be too effective imo, much though Wilshere is a class act. A lot of the Arsenal midfielders just seem too lightweight for a 2 man central midfield to operate effectively and if you end up allowing the opposition more of the ball and to overrun you in central midfield, you risk exposing the defence even more and, at the minute, they simply dont look strong enough as individuals or as a unit to cope.

I might well be wrong, maybe 4-4-1-1 could work, but I think you'd need another strong midfielder in there, another strong centre back, and a good powerful striker. Since you need about 3 signings anyway, this would hardly be a quick fix. It'll be interesting to see who he does go for and how he tries to play though

good post mate, but if you look at arsenal's squad right now no system would create a good team. we need signings anyway.

the problem is that this 4-5-1 or 4-3-3 we play simply does not work defensively so we do need a 4 man midfield in front of the defence imo.

[1989]

Gervinho --- Frimpong --- Wilshere --- New Signing
----------------- RvP ---------Walcott -----------------

you are kidding that you want frimpong to be a first choice midfielder this season right?

He's better than Ramsey, Song and Diaby and has a great understanding with Jack so why not. We won't sign a new CM.

[brazilianGOONER]

Gervinho --- Frimpong --- Wilshere --- New Signing
----------------- RvP ---------Walcott -----------------

you are kidding that you want frimpong to be a first choice midfielder this season right?

He's better than Ramsey, Song and Diaby and has a great understanding with Jack so why not. We won't sign a new CM.

i understand that, but can you really tell that by watching an hour of his football? i mean, we don't know if this lad will produce the good consistently mate, he is still a youngster.

i don't like the idea of having two very inexperienced centremidfielders as first choice in the team...

[1989]

Gervinho --- Frimpong --- Wilshere --- New Signing
----------------- RvP ---------Walcott -----------------

you are kidding that you want frimpong to be a first choice midfielder this season right?

He's better than Ramsey, Song and Diaby and has a great understanding with Jack so why not. We won't sign a new CM.

i understand that, but can you really tell that by watching an hour of his football? i mean, we don't know if this lad will produce the good consistently mate, he is still a youngster.

i don't like the idea of having two very inexperienced centremidfielders as first choice in the team...

It's not ideal, but if the two inexperienced CM's are better than anything else you have in midfield what else can you do? Jack and Frimpong have a telepathic understanding as they've played together since they were 9.

[brazilianGOONER]

Gervinho --- Frimpong --- Wilshere --- New Signing
----------------- RvP ---------Walcott -----------------

you are kidding that you want frimpong to be a first choice midfielder this season right?

He's better than Ramsey, Song and Diaby and has a great understanding with Jack so why not. We won't sign a new CM.

i understand that, but can you really tell that by watching an hour of his football? i mean, we don't know if this lad will produce the good consistently mate, he is still a youngster.

i don't like the idea of having two very inexperienced centremidfielders as first choice in the team...

It's not ideal, but if the two inexperienced CM's are better than anything else you have in midfield what else can you do? Jack and Frimpong have a telepathic understanding as they've played together since they were 9.

yeah i remember hearing the same about bendtner and lupoli i think?

[safcftm]

good post mate, but if you look at arsenal's squad right now no system would create a good team. we need signings anyway.

the problem is that this 4-5-1 or 4-3-3 we play simply does not work defensively so we do need a 4 man midfield in front of the defence imo.

You might be right- personally though I'd see a 3 man central midfield, even with the wingers being pressed quite high up the pitch, as more defensively solid than a flat 4 in the middle. Regardless of what position he's in, if Walcott is on the right, you wont generally get much defensive covering from him (although he did well to cover for the right back at one point on Sunday). He tends to burst forwards and be out of position, leading to only having one central player to get across to cover for him, which then leaves the middle wide open if the central player is dragged across to counter the threat from the left back and left winger.

If you have 3 central midfielders then Theo can take a high position and if he doesnt get back, one central midfielder could move across to prevent the left back/ left winger for the opposition getting too much space to operate and you can still have two central players to stop them getting at you through the middle. With your current players I would say a 4-5-1 with Song, Wilshere and Frimpong is your best bet- Wilshere can break forwards and offer support to RVP (effectively making a 4-4-1-1 at times), other times Walcott can drift in from the right to support RVP and at all times you still have a relatively solid base in midfield with Song and Frimpong, altough ideally you'd sign someone like Tiote.

A 4 man midfield is only defensively sound when both wingers are conservative and dont leave their full back exposed, unfortunately I dont think the Arsenal wide players can be relied upon to do this. Just a personal opinion though, might be wrong, but if I was Wenger I'd stick to having 3 central players

You're definitely spot on about the fact that whatever system is used, it wont be successful enough to keep the fans happy with your current crop of players. Definitely need to bring 3 players in but obviously its a case of whether you trust Wenger to bring 3 in, and if he does whether he can be trusted to get the right 3.