Offside Rule......even men confused!

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MK Gould
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Offside Rule......even men confused!

Post by MK Gould »

As someone who regularly runs the line at youth matches I feel I have a better understanding of the offside rule than most. However, I've been caught out by one particular rule (as has Sir Alex!!) - so wondered whether we have any qualified refs out there who could clarify.

My understanding was that a player could be deemed offside if their team gains an advantage as a direct result of them being offside even if they don't actually touch it. This supposedly avoids the situation where the defending team, under pressure from an offside player, score an OG (Ramsey against Liverpool a few seasons back comes to mind, and Newcastle against Man Utd last week) or divert the ball to an opposition player (as in the case of Sagna yesterday!).

Anyone?

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I Hate Hleb
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Re: Offside Rule......even men confused!

Post by I Hate Hleb »

Although I'm not a ref, I thought I heard Dermot Gallagher explain that generally if a guy is in an offside position and chasing the ball, he will be flagged. In the Man Utd /Newcastle case the ball never reached Cisse before O'Shea got his touch, even though the pass was intended for the forward. They changed the rules to prevent disallowing goals just because a player who hasn't touched the ball is standing in an offside position. Anyway, I thought Ferguson was complaining more about an alleged push on the defender as the ball arrived in the box and the fact that the ref had the audacity to change his mind after consulting the linesman. :?

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MK Gould
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Re: Offside Rule......even men confused!

Post by MK Gould »

I Hate Hleb wrote:Although I'm not a ref, I thought I heard Dermot Gallagher explain that generally if a guy is in an offside position and chasing the ball, he will be flagged. In the Man Utd /Newcastle case the ball never reached Cisse before O'Shea got his touch, even though the pass was intended for the forward. They changed the rules to prevent disallowing goals just because a player who hasn't touched the ball is standing in an offside position.
In that case though, how do you define "chasing"? Southampton played the ball through to a player who was clearing standing offside and he didn't need to chase it as it was being played to his feet. Poorly as Sagna was playing yesterday, I'm sure even he would have let it go rather than stretching to get a foot to the ball if the offside player hadn't been there.... And he would have looked even more of a knob if he'd simply let the pass go through and the linesman didn't flag it!

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I Hate Hleb
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Re: Offside Rule......even men confused!

Post by I Hate Hleb »

Ah ha, so that's the reason for the question - to defend Sagna!! :oops: :wink: :lol:

To be honest MK, I'm not entirely sure of the precise details but I think 'seeking to gain an advantage' is the official terminology for what I called 'chasing'. Anyway, had Sagna let the ball go then presumably the official would have stuck his flag up as soon as the ball reached the forward as he would have been 'gaining an advantage' from being in his position. At Old Trafford the ball didn't reach Cisse so although it resulted in a goal, he didn't 'gain any advantage' as such. 8) Either way, there's no excuse for such shoddy defending from all the back four, but especially Sagna for not clearing it properly and of course Poldoski for initially losing the ball in a bad area. :banghead: :banghead: :oops: :cry:

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QuartzGooner
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Re: Offside Rule......even men confused!

Post by QuartzGooner »

It is this clause that is so open to interpretation that it makes a mockery of the rule.

I prefer a simple rule that a player in an offside position is offside.

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I Hate Hleb
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Re: Offside Rule......even men confused!

Post by I Hate Hleb »

But that's how it used to be in the old days and many a goal was disallowed because of it - especially shots from outside the box - even though the player concerned wasn't 'interfering with play'. It was considered unfair and that's why the rule was changed in the first place.

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olgitgooner
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Re: Offside Rule......even men confused!

Post by olgitgooner »

QuartzGooner wrote:It is this clause that is so open to interpretation that it makes a mockery of the rule.

I prefer a simple rule that a player in an offside position is offside.
Agree. It's a stupid rule.

How can a player be "not interfering with play" if he's in a forward position? He's obviously going to be watched by defenders. Which detracts from their ability to defend against other attackers. :?

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I Hate Hleb
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Re: Offside Rule......even men confused!

Post by I Hate Hleb »

That's why the 'offside trap' was invented old timer!! :roll: :lol: :lol: :wink:

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olgitgooner
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Re: Offside Rule......even men confused!

Post by olgitgooner »

I Hate Hleb wrote:That's why the 'offside trap' was invented old timer!! :roll: :lol: :lol: :wink:
Let me think about this..... :rubchin: :rubchin: .....

:-P :-P :-P :-P :wink:

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Barriecuda
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Re: Offside Rule......even men confused!

Post by Barriecuda »

Barclays Premier League rules follow the ones outlined by FIFA in "Laws of the Game" currently 2012-2013 edition.
FIFA Laws of the Game wrote:(article precedes)

OFFSIDE POSITION
It is not an offence in itself to be in an offside position.

A player is in an offside position if:
-he is nearer to his opponents' goal line than both the ball and the second-last opponent

A player is not in an offside position if:
-he is in his own half of the field of play
-he is level with the second-last opponent
-he is level with the last two opponents

OFFENCE
A player in an offside position is only penalised if, at the moment the ball touches or is played by one of his team, he is, in the opinion of the referee, involved in active play by:
-interfering with play or
-interfering with an opponent or
-gaining an advantage by being in that position

(Article continues)
Source: http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/footbal ... 2012_e.pdf
So yes, you can be penalized without touching the ball if you are "interfering" with the play - the interpretation of that word is purely up to the referee's opinion.

Personally I advocate a liberal interpretation, as the keeper and/or defenders make their decisions based on all players around them, and an offside player could impact how they act even if that specific player doesn't end up getting the ball. (Which is why I think Southampton didn't have much of a case to argue about.)

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olgitgooner
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Re: Offside Rule......even men confused!

Post by olgitgooner »

Offside is offside.

Give referees the opportunity of "interpretation" of a law.....they will get it wrong. Sometimes intentionally (in my humble opinion...and I certainly won't mention any man utd supporting refs :wink: )

The "offside trap" is a legit part of the game. Tony Adams and company perfected the art. It's not a negative part of the game.

As the law stands, you could have a ridiculous situation of having a player parking himself by the oppositions corner flag. As long as he doesn't receive a pass, then he's not offside. But he can still run the short distance toward goal (and score) as long as the referee thinks it's ok.

Stupid rule. Introduced by idiots. :evil:

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northbank123
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Re: Offside Rule......even men confused!

Post by northbank123 »

All comes down to "interfering" and what refs think that means. Personally I think Cisse's was touch and go because Evans clearly dived in regardless of whether or not he was going for the ball and didn't even appeal for the offside.

But if someone chases a ball down and makes you act differently to how you would otherwise then that's obviously "interfering" within the normal definition of the word. I'm a keeper and it drives me mental when somebody is stood miles offside right in front of me and doesn't get flagged, but that's a hard one to police because of the angle of the lino.

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