Turning points

[northbank123]

I've heard people claiming for years that things would have turned out differently had so-and-so not happened. Interested to hear people's views on what incidents (if any) changed our course for the worse.

The incidents I hear brought up most often are:
- Selling Cole to Chelsea
- Losing CL final in 2006
- Birmingham game in 2008
- League cup final in 2011

Personally I think that Birmingham game in 2008 was the biggest turning point. It was the last squad we had that was capable of achieving big things, and the way in which we threw that game away and Eduardo's injury killed us. I knew from that day that our season was going to implode and since Wenger let that team disband we've never looked the same again. For me that day and consequently that season set us off on a downhill trend from which we've never recovered.

At the other end of the scale I think the League Cup final is the most exaggerated. It would have got the no trophy monkey off our backs but it makes me laugh when I hear people saying it ruined our PL and CL chances that year. Winning the Beer Cup against tinpot opposition in the last 4 wouldn't have changed the fact we were nowhere near good enough to win either, and in the bigger picture wouldn't have persuaded Wenger to spend money. I don't see that it would have given our players a winning mentality and don't believe it would in itself have persuaded Fabregas, Nasri and van Judas to stay.

[officepest]

Selling Cole to Chelsea started the rot, from which we've not recovered. Can't solely blame the club for this as it's well doccumented the little prick was whoring himself out but it sent the message that we would sell our prize assets.

I don't even want to talk about the Birmingham game, so much went wrong it's not true.

The Worthlesstinpot Cup was just pathetic, and it showed us all what great "mental strength" we really had. I don't think winning it would've helped keep RvSC, Nasri or Fabregas.

The one that I still don't understand is Wenger's decision to play a woefully understrength team against Chelsea in the beer cup final, an unbelievable demonstration of hubris.

Justin Hoyte, Armand Traore, Jeremie Aliadiere, Legohead & Julio Bapitista

[franksav63]

Mertesacker's turning point!

[markyp]

Mertesacker's turning point!

also Girouds too,did you see that swivel and shot against galatasary yesterday??how embarrassing it was like watching a hippo trying to dance

[VoiceOfReason]

Actually, I'd say Game 50 of the 49ers run was the turning point. If we'd gone up to OT and turned them over 3-0, I think we'd have had the confidence to win the league that year (and certainly wouldn't have started dropping points at home to the likes of Southampton and WBA).

If we won the title and secured back-to-back titles, we'd have been the country's top club and rightly could've attracted some of the world's best players. As it was, we limped to the FA Cup and Vieira and co. started banging on the door to leave. The next mistake was then AW having zero urgency to replace these players, filling the gaps with unproven teenagers who aren't fit for purpose.

[falkirk goon]

Actually, I'd say Game 50 of the 49ers run was the turning point. If we'd gone up to OT and turned them over 3-0, I think we'd have had the confidence to win the league that year (and certainly wouldn't have started dropping points at home to the likes of Southampton and WBA).

If we won the title and secured back-to-back titles, we'd have been the country's top club and rightly could've attracted some of the world's best players. As it was, we limped to the FA Cup and Vieira and co. started banging on the door to leave. The next mistake was then AW having zero urgency to replace these players, filling the gaps with unproven teenagers who aren't fit for purpose.

Spot on mate when we lost that game we lost our cloak of invincibility

[northbank123]

Actually, I'd say Game 50 of the 49ers run was the turning point. If we'd gone up to OT and turned them over 3-0, I think we'd have had the confidence to win the league that year (and certainly wouldn't have started dropping points at home to the likes of Southampton and WBA).

If we won the title and secured back-to-back titles, we'd have been the country's top club and rightly could've attracted some of the world's best players. As it was, we limped to the FA Cup and Vieira and co. started banging on the door to leave. The next mistake was then AW having zero urgency to replace these players, filling the gaps with unproven teenagers who aren't fit for purpose.

Interesting argument. I'm not sure we'd have won the league - our confidence did take a hit after getting shafted but I don't think it's fair to say with anything but speculation that we've have beaten a great Chelsea team who finished with a record 95 points.

Likewise I don't think the problem was ability to attract players - with the new stadium on the horizon at that stage I think we'd seen the start of Wenger's modern transfer policy.

[spendsum4uckingmoney]

Actually, I'd say Game 50 of the 49ers run was the turning point. If we'd gone up to OT and turned them over 3-0, I think we'd have had the confidence to win the league that year (and certainly wouldn't have started dropping points at home to the likes of Southampton and WBA).

If we won the title and secured back-to-back titles, we'd have been the country's top club and rightly could've attracted some of the world's best players. As it was, we limped to the FA Cup and Vieira and co. started banging on the door to leave. The next mistake was then AW having zero urgency to replace these players, filling the gaps with unproven teenagers who aren't fit for purpose.

^^
This. As soon as we lost that game it was like a completely different team. The squad seemed to lose all confidence and suddenly Bolton away became scary. We never recovered from that and we had to with Chelsea. You could say the turning point was when Abramovic bought Chelski.

[northbank123]

Actually, I'd say Game 50 of the 49ers run was the turning point. If we'd gone up to OT and turned them over 3-0, I think we'd have had the confidence to win the league that year (and certainly wouldn't have started dropping points at home to the likes of Southampton and WBA).

If we won the title and secured back-to-back titles, we'd have been the country's top club and rightly could've attracted some of the world's best players. As it was, we limped to the FA Cup and Vieira and co. started banging on the door to leave. The next mistake was then AW having zero urgency to replace these players, filling the gaps with unproven teenagers who aren't fit for purpose.

Interesting argument. I'm not sure we'd have won the league - our confidence did take a hit after getting shafted but I don't think it's fair to say with anything but speculation that we've have beaten a great Chelsea team who finished with a record 95 points.

Likewise I don't think the problem was ability to attract players - with the new stadium on the horizon at that stage I think we'd seen the start of Wenger's modern transfer policy.

[VoiceOfReason]

Interesting argument. I'm not sure we'd have won the league - our confidence did take a hit after getting shafted but I don't think it's fair to say with anything but speculation that we've have beaten a great Chelsea team who finished with a record 95 points.

As others have mentioned, I think the whole mentality of the team was shattered after Game 50, and we started dropping points in games we wouldn't have had we maintained the unbeaten streak and the same confidence.

We managed 90 points the season before, and it definitely would've been feasible to amass 95 in 2004/05 if not for that defeat IMO. For me, the first two months of the 2004/05 season was, by quite some distance, the best we've ever played (and that includes the unbeaten season). The level of belief and style of play was incredible, and we made difficult league fixtures look like exhibition games. Those 4-1 wins at Everton and Norwich, in particular, were immense.

[spendsum4uckingmoney]

I remember the night before 50 and I had never been so nervous. I just knew something was going to go wrong. I think there were, if i remember correctly, telling signs before 50 that there was some weakness entering.

[VoiceOfReason]

I remember the night before 50 and I had never been so nervous. I just knew something was going to go wrong. I think there were, if i remember correctly, telling signs before 50 that there was some weakness entering.

Well, if nothing else, the law of averages suggested we would have to lose a game sooner rather than later, and Old Trafford wasn't a particular happy hunting ground for us, even in that era (2002 title win aside, obvs). Plus, after the Keown/Van Nistelrooy shenanigans the year before, they were always going to be out for revenge.

Also, didn't Lauren and Vieira have some kind of bust-up after the CL away game vs. Panathinaikos just days before this? Or was that a couple of weeks earlier at Rosenborg? I'm in agreement though, I didn't feel confident about this at all and would've happily taken the draw.

To this day, I still believe that the FA fixed it as our fiftieth game to stop us from making that landmark figure - surely it's too coincidental otherwise. Mike Riley will forever be on the utter, utter *word censored* list too. If I ever see that birdheaded *word censored*, I'm smacking him in the face.

[SteveO 35]

Mourinho's arrival at Chelsea turned Wenger into the Financial Fair Play puppy dog and he subsequently rolled over to have his tummy tickled when they came calling for Cole. From the team that nicked one of England's most sought after players i.e. Big Sol, from one of their rivals, the tables were turned and allowed us to continue to develop into the selling club we've become today. RvP and Nasri were just recent examples but there will be others. Prior to that Wenger was happy to sell ageing players or those with a big price tag (Anelka) to overseas clubs but from that moment in 2006 he allowed us to be bullied into selling any of our players. Virtually every summer since then has confirmed that fact

[StuartL]

The day he (wenker) put money / profit before points and justifies it !

- which you could well put down to the Cole debacle too (although that was by all accounts the board (sans Dein) who wouldn't sanction the £5k per week to the players agent and insisted that Cole pay it to him himself.

In retrospect ,an extra £5k a week for a world class fullback, who was a Gooner to boot would have been chicken feed (especially in view of the absolute millions we have wasted on second rate shit since)

[QuartzGooner]

We never recovered from the summer 2008 departures of Flamini, Hleb and Gilberto.
That team was good, but it has yet to be properly rebuilt.

Obviously there were things earlier that dd not help: Vieira leaving 2005, Pires, Sol and Cole leaving in same summer 2006, Dein's departure 2007, Eduardo's injury 2008 and Adebayor's loss of form 2008 - 2009.

But in 2007 - 2008 we genuinely challenged for the league as a rebuilt team, and have not done since then.