Scottish independence

[olgitgooner]

Are you for or against?

Personally I am totally for it.

As an Englishman I would be paying less tax. Result.

[REB]

i think they will stay in the union, but doesn't affect me so I don't care

[northbank123]

Vote for the SNP doesn't equal a vote for independence. Don't see it happening.

[DB10GOONER]

More importantly for OneBard Ewok and his people, will the Ewoks ever gain independence from the Dwarf Nation?

Lefty? You crazy little fuckers ever gonna let them Ewoks go? Huh? Ever?

[OneBardGooner]

I heard DB10 is standing as an Ewok MP for election but no one could see him !

[Perryashburtongroves]

Fuck 'em.

[afcforever]

Tony Blair and Gordon Brown both jocks, the biggest pair of Iv'e ever known

[Rugby Gooner]

Scotland has got a Parliament,Wales and Northern Ireland have "Assemblies",(Parliaments by another name),yet everytime the English dare to suggest any form of independent rule we/they are slapped down as xenophobic racists!!!
Where is our Parliament? (and I am speaking as someone born in England,but of Scottish "heritage",(I believe that that is the P.C. phrase).
Most of my relatives north of the border think that England is a joke,and that they are royally fucking us via student loans,prescription charges etal,while still enjoying voting rights in the British Parliament,while we are excluded from any influence in their decision making.
England is basically a joke within the rest of the U.K. and Ireland.

[northbank123]

Scotland has got a Parliament,Wales and Northern Ireland have "Assemblies",(Parliaments by another name),yet everytime the English dare to suggest any form of independent rule we/they are slapped down as xenophobic racists!!!
Where is our Parliament? (and I am speaking as someone born in England,but of Scottish "heritage",(I believe that that is the P.C. phrase).
Most of my relatives north of the border think that England is a joke,and that they are royally fucking us via student loans,prescription charges etal,while still enjoying voting rights in the British Parliament,while we are excluded from any influence in their decision making.
England is basically a joke within the rest of the U.K. and Ireland.

The Welsh Assembly is a tinpot organisation which doesn't have much meaningful power - particularly compared to the expense it must incur. Imo it doesn't really fulfil its aim of delivering specific solutions to Welsh problems and its main benefit is basically as a think tank/testing ground for new legislation (like smoking ban, carrier bag charge etc). Obviously the Scottish Parliament is a different story.

I do agree that it's wrong that Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish MPs can vote in Westminster on legislation that only involves England because the devolved institutions have legislated on them already - although it's not as simple as it seems given that it's AMs and MSPs who have voted for those laws (not those MPs) and many will argue that they still need to represent their constituents' interests as the legislation may have some sort of knock-on effect.

I don't think England needs a Parliament to rival the others per se - just that MPs from the devolved countries who the legislation doesn't apply to should be excluded from voting on it then at Westminster.

[LDB]

Rugby is spot on, ever since devolution started in 1997 the only people who have never been asked or even considered at any stage is the English. 80% of the population have not been consulted and don't look likely to be any time soon.

For what it's worth I don't think ending the union would bring about the benefits for either side that people imagine, it would just be upheaval for upheaval's sake. But then again, if it destroys Labour as a party of government in England then maybe it is worth it!

[northbank123]

I think there's something to be said that there's more of a justification for specific legislative powers for Scotland (population less than 5.5mil), Northern Ireland (less than 2mil) and Wales (about 3mil) than for England (with a population of about 53mil). Those former 3 all have specific national circumstances/problems that are far more unlikely to be addressed via legislation at Westminster than England. For example, when legislating on education those in England represent about 5/6th of the UK constituents affected, so their interests are far more likely to be served when considering the UK as a whole - I don't see a problem with allowing the other countries to use the resources to introduce specific legislation that should be more beneficial to their constituents.

As I said the system isn't perfect and I would be in favour of some reforms but if you actually look a bit deeper there is actually a reason for most of the things being the way they are.

[LDB]

I listened to a bit of the 5live independence debate the other day and there were a lot of people complaining about Scotland being subject to westminster tory governments they don't vote for. Well excuse me but the last Labour government was elected without a majority of parliamentary seats in England. What really takes the piss though is that Scottish MPs get to vote in westminster on things like the NHS and many other major areas of social policy despite the fact the legislation they're voting for/against only affects England!

There is a massive democratic deficit in the status quo that surely cannot be ignored. Tbh the more I have to listen to jocks talking about how they're going to form some glorious socialist republic based on their limited and dwindling oil supply the more I think they should get it.

[QuartzGooner]

On a serious note, I say good luck to the Scots if they want to be independent.

Personally I have more pressing worries -

Iranian Nuclear Weapons Programme.

Syrian/Shia vs Sunni Middle East War, massive casualties so far and probability of it spreading.

The Third Palestinian Intifada which has been bubbling under for a while, threatening to boil over.

The possible collapse of the Western World's financial system within five years and obvious knock on effects, something I feel is a real possibility rather than a paranoid fear.

Increasing failure of anti-biotics to eradicate diseases, and lack of cheap alternatives to fight disease, though phages must be worth investigating.

Fukushima nuclear plant continuing to leak radiation into the food chain.

[DB10GOONER]

On a serious note, I say good luck to the Scots if they want to be independent.

Personally I have more pressing worries -

Iranian Nuclear Weapons Programme.

Syrian/Shia vs Sunni Middle East War, massive casualties so far and probability of it spreading.

The Third Palestinian Intifada which has been bubbling under for a while, threatening to boil over.

The possible collapse of the Western World's financial system within five years and obvious knock on effects, something I feel is a real possibility rather than a paranoid fear.

Increasing failure of anti-biotics to eradicate diseases, and lack of cheap alternatives to fight disease, though phages must be worth investigating.

Fukushima nuclear plant continuing to leak radiation into the food chain.

You don't get much good sleep, do you, mate?

[QuartzGooner]

You don't get much good sleep, do you, mate?

You are not wrong!