WHEN THEY SAY WE WERE NORTH LONDON FIRST

As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
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REB
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WHEN THEY SAY WE WERE NORTH LONDON FIRST

Post by REB »

saw this on glory glory and it really annoyed the fuck out of the swamp dwellers over there :mrgreen: :mrgreen:




Many Spurs fans, for obvious reasons, resent Arsenal moving to North London and becoming more successful than them, and in their eyes cheating Spurs out of a place in Division 1 in 1919, on the resumption of football after World War 1. I’m not going to go into that subject here, but obviously the allegations of bribery and corruption against Arsenal are completely unfounded. If anyone, Spurs fan or otherwise, wants to accuse Arsenal of any offence in 1919 then please provide some form of evidence.

However, the circumstances of Spurs being relegated while Arsenal were promoted in 1919, then Arsenal becoming the biggest club in the world in the 1930s, Spurs’ resurgence in the late 1950s and then their glory years (1961-62), and finally the modern Spurs fan having to watch Arsenal’s own resurgence and numerous trophy wins has caused some negative emotions in many Spurs fans – I won’t say all; I’ve met Spurs fans who are perfectly reasonable. But some understandably cling to the “We were here in North London first” argument. The problem with this argument is that the boundary of London has changed.

London was already a city in medieval times when the Normans organised England and Wales into counties. In the south of England counties were largely existing divisions of the old Kingdom of Wessex, including Middlesex (named after the ‘Middle Saxons’ who settled there a few centuries earlier). Henry I granted control of Middlesex to London, and until the late 19th century London and Middlesex were administered together for most purposes.

‘London’ at this time was strictly speaking what we now know as the City of London, also known simply as ‘the City’ or the ‘square mile’, and largely taken over these days by the financial industry. In earlier times people actually lived in the City of London of course, but eventually most migrated to the growing urban sprawl outside the old City walls. As time went on ‘London’ gobbled up its surrounding villages and became bigger and bigger, though officially London was still just the old area of the City within its medieval boundary.

In 1886 – coincidentally Arsenal’s founding year – the Conservatives won a general election, but without enough seats for a majority. They allied themselves with the Liberal Unionists, who agreed to support the Tories in exchange for certain policies being implemented, one of which was reorganisation of local government. Accordingly, new county administrations were implemented under the Local Government Act of 1888, including the formation of a new County of London from 21 March 1889.

The County of London was made up of the City itself and a large number of districts surrounding it on both sides of the River Thames. In 1900 the old local districts and parishes and their administrative councils were reorganised into 28 Metropolitan Boroughs, including Chelsea, Fulham, Woolwich (one of the largest in area) and Islington – which of course includes Highbury. So both Arsenal’s home (south of the river) at the time of the formation of the new county and the one they moved to in 1913 were within the official new London. Tottenham remained in Middlesex, where it had been ever since its formation as a small hamlet about 1,000 years ago.

Things stayed this way from 1900 to 1965, when London’s increasing size necessitated further reorganisation. Under the London Government Act 1963 a new ‘Greater London’ was formed around the County of London, which then disappeared and became known as ‘Inner London’. At this point Tottenham became part of the new borough of Haringey, and for the first time part of London.

The county of Middlesex disappeared, mostly into Greater London, with odd bits going into other surrounding counties. The name Middlesex lives on as a postal district and the name of a county cricket club.

So, rather appropriately some might say, Tottenham only became part of London on 1 April 1965. What this means of course is that they’ve never won the League as a London club, and Arsenal were the first London club to do the Double! And also the second and third.

To emphasise that last point, here’s the Wikipedia page for the Municipal Borough of Tottenham that features a map titled “Tottenham within Middlesex in 1961″. I’ve added this as at least one Spurs fan seemed to think that when Tottenham became a borough in the 1890s it stopped being part of Middlesex. No such luck for him, as the status of Tottenham could not get it out of Middlesex and into the capital with Arsenal for another 70 years.
.

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I Hate Hleb
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Re: WHEN THEY SAY WE WERE NORTH LONDON FIRST

Post by I Hate Hleb »

Don't you just love History. 8) :lol: :wink:

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QuartzGooner
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Re: WHEN THEY SAY WE WERE NORTH LONDON FIRST

Post by QuartzGooner »

It is all semantics.

Spurs have only won the league twice.

That is enough to show how far below us they are.

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Red Gunner
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Post by Red Gunner »

QuartzGooner wrote:It is all semantics.

Spurs have only won the league twice.

That is enough to show how far below us they are.
Not sure about that...

11 Reasons why Spurs are bigger than Arsenal

1. Tottenham have won a major trophy in each of the last full decades dating back to the 1950s (only Man U can equal this).

2. Tottenham were the first London club to win the FA Cup in 1901 and when were still the only London club to have won it, when we lifted it again 20 years later. Indeed it took until 1930 for Arsenal to finally capture the cup, for what was to be their first major trophy, some 44 years after they had been formed (it took us just 19 years after our formation to lift our first trophy by comparison).

3. Tottenham were the first London club to win a European trophy (indeed first British club).

4. Tottenham have won three UEFA European trophies, Arsenal just the one.

5. Tottenham were the first London side to win the double in 60’61, doing it in style, unlike the anti-football of Arsenal ten years later. At the time, we had most points, most goals, most points and most wins. We still hold most wins in top flight from this memorable season as well as most wins from start season in the top flight. By contrast Arsenal did not even score the most goals of that particular campaign when they sneaked their way to the double in 70’71.

6. Tottenham record’s transfer fee paid (as of August 27th at least) is £25.8 million, Arsenal’s just £15 million.

7. Tottenham’s record attendance 75038, Arsenal’s 73707.

8. Arsenal recorded just 4,554 supporters in a top flight match v Leeds in 1966, just four months later Tottenham recorded 43,844 in the equivalent fixture, nearly ten times as many fans, watching the same opposition in the same completion, when our grounds were of very similar size.

9. Since the war, six times Tottenham have been the best supported club in England, Arsenal just twice (Tottenham were even the best supported in the country as a second division side – once again showing that even when the chips are down Spurs supporters turn out in droves).

10. Tottenham’s lowest ever average league crowd 13,370, Arsenal’s 4,460 (indeed 14 seasons in total Arsenal have averaged worse crowds than Tottenham’s lowest).

11. Tottenham have provided 70 representatives for the national side (the second highest of all time, just one player behind Villa), Arsenal have provided just 57.


viewtopic.php?p=856432#p856432

:oops: :lol:

LDB
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Re:

Post by LDB »

Red Gunner wrote:
QuartzGooner wrote:It is all semantics.

Spurs have only won the league twice.

That is enough to show how far below us they are.
Not sure about that...

11 Reasons why Spurs are bigger than Arsenal

1. Tottenham have won a major trophy in each of the last full decades dating back to the 1950s (only Man U can equal this).

2. Tottenham were the first London club to win the FA Cup in 1901 and when were still the only London club to have won it, when we lifted it again 20 years later. Indeed it took until 1930 for Arsenal to finally capture the cup, for what was to be their first major trophy, some 44 years after they had been formed (it took us just 19 years after our formation to lift our first trophy by comparison).

3. Tottenham were the first London club to win a European trophy (indeed first British club).

4. Tottenham have won three UEFA European trophies, Arsenal just the one.

5. Tottenham were the first London side to win the double in 60’61, doing it in style, unlike the anti-football of Arsenal ten years later. At the time, we had most points, most goals, most points and most wins. We still hold most wins in top flight from this memorable season as well as most wins from start season in the top flight. By contrast Arsenal did not even score the most goals of that particular campaign when they sneaked their way to the double in 70’71.

6. Tottenham record’s transfer fee paid (as of August 27th at least) is £25.8 million, Arsenal’s just £15 million.

7. Tottenham’s record attendance 75038, Arsenal’s 73707.

8. Arsenal recorded just 4,554 supporters in a top flight match v Leeds in 1966, just four months later Tottenham recorded 43,844 in the equivalent fixture, nearly ten times as many fans, watching the same opposition in the same completion, when our grounds were of very similar size.

9. Since the war, six times Tottenham have been the best supported club in England, Arsenal just twice (Tottenham were even the best supported in the country as a second division side – once again showing that even when the chips are down Spurs supporters turn out in droves).

10. Tottenham’s lowest ever average league crowd 13,370, Arsenal’s 4,460 (indeed 14 seasons in total Arsenal have averaged worse crowds than Tottenham’s lowest).

11. Tottenham have provided 70 representatives for the national side (the second highest of all time, just one player behind Villa), Arsenal have provided just 57.


viewtopic.php?p=856432#p856432

:oops: :lol:
Oh yes i remember this. Number 7 is the most hard-hitting, keeps me up for hours that one does :lol:

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SteveO 35
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Re:

Post by SteveO 35 »

Red Gunner wrote:
QuartzGooner wrote:It is all semantics.

Spurs have only won the league twice.

That is enough to show how far below us they are.
Not sure about that...

11 Reasons why Spurs are bigger than Arsenal

1. Tottenham have won a major trophy in each of the last full decades dating back to the 1950s (only Man U can equal this).

2. Tottenham were the first London club to win the FA Cup in 1901 and when were still the only London club to have won it, when we lifted it again 20 years later. Indeed it took until 1930 for Arsenal to finally capture the cup, for what was to be their first major trophy, some 44 years after they had been formed (it took us just 19 years after our formation to lift our first trophy by comparison).

3. Tottenham were the first London club to win a European trophy (indeed first British club).

4. Tottenham have won three UEFA European trophies, Arsenal just the one.

5. Tottenham were the first London side to win the double in 60’61, doing it in style, unlike the anti-football of Arsenal ten years later. At the time, we had most points, most goals, most points and most wins. We still hold most wins in top flight from this memorable season as well as most wins from start season in the top flight. By contrast Arsenal did not even score the most goals of that particular campaign when they sneaked their way to the double in 70’71.

6. Tottenham record’s transfer fee paid (as of August 27th at least) is £25.8 million, Arsenal’s just £15 million.

7. Tottenham’s record attendance 75038, Arsenal’s 73707.

8. Arsenal recorded just 4,554 supporters in a top flight match v Leeds in 1966, just four months later Tottenham recorded 43,844 in the equivalent fixture, nearly ten times as many fans, watching the same opposition in the same completion, when our grounds were of very similar size.

9. Since the war, six times Tottenham have been the best supported club in England, Arsenal just twice (Tottenham were even the best supported in the country as a second division side – once again showing that even when the chips are down Spurs supporters turn out in droves).

10. Tottenham’s lowest ever average league crowd 13,370, Arsenal’s 4,460 (indeed 14 seasons in total Arsenal have averaged worse crowds than Tottenham’s lowest).

11. Tottenham have provided 70 representatives for the national side (the second highest of all time, just one player behind Villa), Arsenal have provided just 57.


viewtopic.php?p=856432#p856432

:oops: :lol:
Number 6 is fucking priceless. We've wasted more money on shit like Soldado, Pavlyuchenko, Rebrov, Lamela - lets celebrate it. Fucking clowns - sums up what a shower they are. When we did decide to break that record we signed a world class player.....the likes of which wouldn't dip a toe into their cesspit

:barscarf: :barscarf: :barscarf:

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StuartL
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Re: WHEN THEY SAY WE WERE NORTH LONDON FIRST

Post by StuartL »

Well they have won the Norwich hospital cup more times than we have, so there :oops:

clockender1
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Re: WHEN THEY SAY WE WERE NORTH LONDON FIRST

Post by clockender1 »

I love the 'Glory Years (61-62)'. Lol.

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U.F.G Anfield '89
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Re: WHEN THEY SAY WE WERE NORTH LONDON FIRST

Post by U.F.G Anfield '89 »

one of those "facts" is wrong anyway, we've won the Fairs cup and the Cup Winners Cup, maybe it's just spurs fans not being able to count.

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Re: WHEN THEY SAY WE WERE NORTH LONDON FIRST

Post by DB10GOONER »

clockender1 wrote:I love the 'Glory Years (61-62)'. Lol.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

8) 8)

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Bradywasking
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Re: WHEN THEY SAY WE WERE NORTH LONDON FIRST

Post by Bradywasking »

11 Reasons why Arsenal are better than Spurs

1...Because they are...
2 to 11... Reason number one covers everything.

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Re: WHEN THEY SAY WE WERE NORTH LONDON FIRST

Post by Robin_L »

Most of those 10 reasons are laughable, only a few hold water really, but #4 is the only one we really need to put right.

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Red Gunner
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Post by Red Gunner »

Bradywasking wrote:11 Reasons why Arsenal are better than Spurs

1...Because they are...
2 to 11... Reason number one covers everything.
1. 1933–34 league title
2. 1934–35 league title
3. 1937–38 league title
4. 1947–48 league title
5. 1952–53 league title
6. 1970–71 league title
7. 1988–89 league title
8. 1990–91 league title
9. 1997–98 league title
10. 2001–02 league title
11. 2003–04 league title

8)

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northbank123
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Re: WHEN THEY SAY WE WERE NORTH LONDON FIRST

Post by northbank123 »

"Sneaked their way to the double" :lol: :lol: :lol:

Any other group of fans and you'd have to say that list was done tongue-in-cheek, not these deluded clowns.

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Re: WHEN THEY SAY WE WERE NORTH LONDON FIRST

Post by Almunia is a clown »

:rubchin: Like to see the evidence that Middlesex were the best supported club 6 times since the war? :roll:

Even above Man U? :shock:

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