Club level could be the death of football (12/2)

[gooner.ed]

http://www.onlinegooner.com/exclusive/index.php?id=528

usual thread starter… Firstly to say that I am aware there are some genuine fans in club level, but it’s quite obvious that there are many who are not. As for the atmosphere, that’s down to the lower and upper tiers. I certainly don’t think we can blame the club level for that.

But the bottom line is that unless all the clubs unite to bring down player wages and transfer fees, then the money funding those will have to come from somewhere. At Arsenal a lot of it comes from the middle tier. So if we want to hang on to the best players – and buy the best once Arsene’s gone, then we’d better get used to people who aren’t big football fans attending the matches on expenses.

I actually think that financially, Liverpool’s problem will be attracting the corporate market and getting the kind of income Arsenal can raise simply because they are in London. No way will they be able to sell 7,000 season tickets as £2,500 a pop minimum.

It’s a shame the game has gone this way, but as I said it will take all the leading clubs to reverse the trend. Can you see them agreeing to that? Thought not…

[GoonerJim]

Not much to argue with... Infact everything he said was true and i have experienced the same thing myself with regards to peoples shocking lack of knowledge when it comes to Arsenal

[Graham Wilkinson]

I agree with the Editor on this one.

It's very easy to have a go at club level.

But the simple fact is that they generate lots of income for the club. If we want to compete, and don't want to pay through the nose for our "normal" seats, we need club level. If there are rich people willing to pay silly money, we should take their money even if they don't know anything about football or Arsenal's history.

There was a very interesting piece in the print edition of the Gooner a few issues back from someone in club level. He argued that different supporters had different roles. It was club level's job to cough up cash. It was the job of those in the cheap seats to make noise at the games.

Club level are clearly doing their bit. Are the rest of the fans doing their's?

[GoonerJim]

I agree with the Editor on this one.

It's very easy to have a go at club level.

But the simple fact is that they generate lots of income for the club. If we want to compete, and don't want to pay through the nose for our "normal" seats, we need club level. If there are rich people willing to pay silly money, we should take their money even if they don't know anything about football or Arsenal's history.

There was a very interesting piece in the print edition of the Gooner a few issues back from someone in club level. He argued that different supporters had different roles. It was club level's job to cough up cash. It was the job of those in the cheap seats to make noise at the games.

Club level are clearly doing their bit. Are the rest of the fans doing their's?

Not really - as far as im aware there is also corporate seating outside of club level aswell...hardly a good thing atmosphere wise.

Personally i think they need to make the whole of the North stand lower a singing section.

[QuartzGooner]

I have sat in club level three times, all last season.
The decor and bars were very up market, like being in a good quality
hotel.
Chatted to people around me before game to see what they were about.

All those I met were proper fans, not corporates. Some were a large family who had season tickets at Highbury for 30 years but in different parts of ground, were willing to pay extra so they could sit together at every game, especially as a couple did not yet have season tickets and were a long way down the waiting list.

Then at Man Utd home last season, there was a row. One of our fans was winding up some Man Utd fan in front of him, and a fight broke out...two huge stewards jumped in and people went flying!

So my experience was one of proper fans and serious passion...though people did linger in the bar after second half kicked off to finish complimentary drinks.

As for early leavers, just as many leave the lower tier early as club level.

Would like to know what other fans have found when they have sat there?

[GIJ]

To put it simply, i hate fans who leave early. there are few legitimate reasons why people should be doing so; "but the public transport is shit"is no excuse.

I sit lower tier, and i was embarassed to have to explain to a friend, whose first game it was at emirates, why everyone was leaving. I didnt have a reason.

We can't have people leaving early if we want to create a great atmosphere. simple.

For the record, if you are a real fan in club class, brilliant, then just sing as well. ignore the coporate goons.

[GoonerJim]

wherever i sit (and this is no joke) there is always a tourist with a camera and fuck off lense who is more interested in taking pictures then watching the match and aregone with 20 minutes to go in the game!

The other thing i have noticed is more and more couples appearing *but* are dressed like they are going to the opera...and havent a clue who the players are or whats going on.

The last thing i have noticed is that in some areas of the ground you get these looks of disgust or puzzlement if you start singing - That is the thing that really gets me blood boiling.

[northbankbren]

First I have to say I know there are real fans in the club level, this is not targeted towards you guys.

I also agree with Ed on this one there is a definite need for the club level when it comes to the finances of the club and also paying off the loans for the new stadium. May be be wrong but heard club level alone makes almost the same money as the whole of Highbury. I also agree that early leavers and late arrivals for the second half are sadly very common in all parts of the ground. But my one experience in club level last year for the Moscow game was shocking.
It wasn’t that that many came back late for the second half…they didn’t come back at all!!! In front of me was a group of about 7 guys who also knew the 5-6 guys sitting to the left of me (I established this in the first half). At the kick off of the second half me and my sister were the only people within 20 seats in our seats for the kick off, and the closest people to us were actually Moscow fans. About 5 mins into the second half the guy sitting next to me returns…on his own. About 15mins into the second half one of the guys from the row in front returns…on his own. Then came the real shock the guy next to me asks the guy in front, “Where are the rest of em?â€

[Bring Back Pires]

[quote="Graham Wilkinson"]If we want to compete, and don't want to pay through the nose for our "normal" seats, we need club level.
quote]

I absolutely hate this argument. Correct me if i'm wrong, but when we were at Highbury, we didn't seem to have any problems in 'competing', as we won multiple Premier League titles and countless other trophies. Since we've moved to Emirates, we've won nothing. So I honestly don't understand why you'd need a club level to compete.

Are you honestly telling me that if we'd stayed at Highbury we wouldn't be competing?

[EL-Z]

I think one thing people dont talk about enough is the amount of rich corporate morons who occupy seats in the upper tier as well. I on so many occasions have sat next to people who have no idea what the hell their talking about. One person argued with me that Van Persie was Denilson which was just bloody outrageous. I agree with alot of the Liverpool fans comments although I thought he was a little harsh on the atmosphere last night. It was a little flat in pockets but it was more often than not louder than it usually is. That isnt too say it couldnt be louder cause it could by far. It did help that my usual seat in 99 was surrounded by people who wanted to make some noise for once.

[Galasso]

I agree with the Editor on this one.

It's very easy to have a go at club level.

But the simple fact is that they generate lots of income for the club. If we want to compete, and don't want to pay through the nose for our "normal" seats, we need club level. If there are rich people willing to pay silly money, we should take their money even if they don't know anything about football or Arsenal's history.

There was a very interesting piece in the print edition of the Gooner a few issues back from someone in club level. He argued that different supporters had different roles. It was club level's job to cough up cash. It was the job of those in the cheap seats to make noise at the games.

Club level are clearly doing their bit. Are the rest of the fans doing their's?

If we want to compete? We were competing! And who asked ME whether I wanted the game to go in the direction in which it has?

It's eveyone's job to get behind the team. That means when you are in the stadium getting behind the team vocally, as this helps the team and intimidates the opposition more than waving cash.

And cheap seats? Those paying £2500 are perhaps making a proportionally smaller contribution to the club financially than people like me paying £900. And at £900 we have some of the most expensive "cheap" seats in the world.

That letter writer should get his head out his ass before it come back out of his mouth.

[QuartzGooner]

Club Level and Box Level revenue combined makes almost as much money as the whole of Highbury made.

We were able to compete at Highbury, but the revenue gap between us and the rest was growing larger and eventually that is going to damage the team. We might keep finding unknown players for next to no money, but after a couple of seasons their wage demands rise and we need to keep hold of players, not see them leave to our rivals.

I have no problem with club level. I just accept that about half to two thirds of fans there (my estimate) are real, the rest are corporate and there is nothing I can do about it except encourage good atmosphere in rest of stadium.

I now sit in Box Level, and of course a number of boxes are owned by firms. Yet a fair few firms are medium and small businesses who are local, and run and staffed mainly by Arsenal fans. There are also individual Arsenal fans who own boxes and create a good atmosphere up there.

As for moving stadium, yes it raises more money, but it also allows extra 22,000 fans chance to see games. That is a good thing.

[DB10GOONER]

As a few of the regulars on here know my only realistic access to tickets for games is really only my mate's season tickets...

...in club level (they were actually all he could get by the time he was in a position to buy).

I agree that alot of corporate spectators are up there but there are also genuine fans too. I make a huge noise and whoever's with me (mate or brother) they do too. Some of our neighbours are up for it but a lot of them sit there and just look at us .

I think the Mickey Mouser exagerated alot of what he saw (or was really unfortunate to be stuck in a hotbed of corporate fans).

As for early leavers; I hate that shit with a passion . Especially when you see so many of the alleged "real supporters" from the lower tiers doing one early too . In club level you can say most of the early leavers are probably corporate spectators but down in the mosh pit???? Aren't they all real Gooners?

Something has to be done about the atmosphere, I agree, and the early leavers; but where do you strike the balance between money and atmosphere?

[DanRev]

Good to see we got anonymously namedropped by a corporate, I was sat/standing in "the old clock tower"


Never been in Club level. Dont particularly want to either.

[Cus Geezer]

I've been in club level twice.

The first being the 2nd match at AG - against Zagreb, the last against Newcastle a few weeks ago.

The latter actually seemed to have a less borgeious crowd than the former - don't know why, maybe some of the older crowd get the cash together on the odd occasion as a treat. I have come to expect less of them also so am not so disappointed. As for not singing, well in Highbury of pre-Taylor report days only 2 ends ever sang - the North Bank and Clock End, the rest were always silent. As the singers are now dispersed around the ground and hushed by the silent brigade, hence we have silence.

What did really piss me off was last night on the lower tier - I was sitting on the end of the row near the aisle and the number of people going up and down it while the game was going on got me really annoyed. People coming down the aisle with Nachos and Hotdogs 10 mins into the 2nd half -this game that would take us 5 pts clear and people were more into stuffing their faces.

I was optimistic early on with the waving scarfs and singing - but it withered as the game went on. It's like for all the efforts of RedAction the terrace culture of football (particularly Arsenal) has been wiped and replaced by passive consumers willing to stuff their face and rush out to catch a train. It looks sadly a cross class thing as well, as 20 year old working class kids at the Grove have no schooling in the terrace culture of old - and seem to have just a handful of chants.

This footage for me....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C56RHTaIZcs

is what it used to be all about. A smaller crowd than today, but one that seemed to know exactly what it was there for and effected the action.

And for all the bollocks about "family" atmosphere - spot how many kids you see in the crowd in comparison with today.