THE MONEY THREAD

[REB]

spu*s in for eto and spending ££££££s
arsenal in for bilbo baggins jr and spending .......

last year look at the tv money all clubs earned and ask why wasn't that used for first team , and yes i know we have stadium payments but we also have so much more coming in as in gate ,sponsorship, merchandise etc


England's top four Premiership clubs have earned at least £14 million each more than Tottenham, who finished fifth, from television cash and prize money in the 2006-07 season.


High rollers: United topped the earnings league
Manchester United, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal all cashed in on making it to the knockout rounds of the Champions League.

Even with an extra £2.2 billion injection into the Premier League from a new television deal, which will mean every club benefiting by at least an extra £12m, money from the Champions League still separates the top four from the rest.

United re-establish themselves as top of the money league with a total of £62.92m, a figure that does not include gate money from Old Trafford, merchandise sales or income from club sponsorship deals.

Chelsea have also broken the £60m mark, while Liverpool's run to the Champions League final will saw them bring in at least £54.7m

Arsenal's failure to reach the quarter-finals of Europe's top club competition cost them several millions, but their total figure of £44.14m is still £14m more than north London rivals Spurs, who earned a total of £30.55m - their Uefa Cup earnings over £11m less than Arsenal's European income.

Relegated Watford were the Premiership's lowest earners, bringing in £17.98m.

In the money
Premiership (£) Europe Cups Total
ManUtd 30.58m 28.9m 2.95m 62.92m**
Chelsea 30.97m 26.4m 3.27m 60.15m**
Liverpool 28.44m 26.0m 0.27m 54.71m*
Arsenal 28.60m 13.90m 1.63m 44.14m
Tottenham 27.21m 2.0m 1.34m 30.55m
Everton 25.55m xx 0.12m 25.67m
Bolton 24.63m xx 0.48m 25.11m
Reading 23.64m xx 0.78m 24.42m
Portsmouth 23.15m xx 0.33m 23.47m
Blackburn 22.24m 0.8m 1.64m 24.68m
AstonVilla 22.23m xx 0.27m 22.20m
Middlesbrough 20.77m xx 1.07m 21.84m
Newcastle 21.21m 1.0m 0.27m 22.48m
ManCity 21.37m xx 1.02m 22.39m
WestHam 20.71m 0.1m 0.18m 20.99m
Fulham 20.26m xx 0.52m 20.78m
Wigan 18.58m xx 0.12m 18.70m
SheffUtd 18.00m xx 0.12m 18.12m
Charlton 18.00m xx 0.12m 18.12m
Watford 17.02m xx 0.96m 17.98m
* An extra £2million if win Champions League
** An extra £1million to FA Cup final winners
Premier League earnings: Prize money (max £9.7m, min £487,000); TV cash (£8.9million per club plus £340,000 or £250,000 for each live Sky game, depending on timing and whether PPV game); Overseas TV, sponsorship and licensing money (£4.02m per club).

[SPUDMASHER]

I've got to say that I'm a bit concerned about what is happening in N17. Eto'o, Villa, Modric, Greene etc. all alleged to be going there (yes I know Modric is definite).
If we don't respond and strengthen then I think they'll be having a fucking good laugh at us next year

[Magic Hat]

Spurs are in transfer debt and rely solely on their owner paying up transfer fee's, bit like Chelsea and possibly Man U, while we try to remain with our own resources.

[augie]

Spurs are in transfer debt and rely solely on their owner paying up transfer fee's, bit like Chelsea and possibly Man U, while we try to remain with our own resources.

Aaarrghhhh For fcuks sake magic will you give the moral diatribe a rest. If the scum finish above us next season how many will be feeling smug about our controlled finances How many millions would we lose out on should that happen Our club are far too cocky and complacent thinking that they can continue to get by on the cheap and still qualify for champs league every season and it may have worked until now but if we dont change our transfer policy then that kick in the nuts we have all been dreading will be coming fast

[Magic Merse]

This could solve the arsenal board room debate.

First up we have arsenal, who followed the route of investing in a stadium and not the players.

Then we have tottenham who are currently follwoing what was David Deins route of investing heavily in players and doing sod all to the stadium.

Give it a couple of years and we will either see

1) Arsenal spending millions of excess cash generated from the stadium added to the money we will still be getting from the Champ League and Prem.

Tottenham Playing Huddlesfield Town after not getting in to europe and desperatlally trying to offload there players for peanutes, a la leeds.

2) Arsenal playing in front of a half empty stadium and applying for the Vase cup.

Tottenham after winning the champ league for the 2nd year in a row, start to discuss plans for a 90,000 seat stadium.

[Magic Hat]

Aaarrghhhh For fcuks sake magic will you give the moral diatribe a rest. If the scum finish above us next season how many will be feeling smug about our controlled finances How many millions would we lose out on should that happen Our club are far too cocky and complacent thinking that they can continue to get by on the cheap and still qualify for champs league every season and it may have worked until now but if we dont change our transfer policy then that kick in the nuts we have all been dreading will be coming fast

who says it is immoral? I think it is unwise to spend cash like that but thousands of clubs have done it before, it certainly isn't evil. I was just saying Spurs are spendhing cash as they can blah blah while we spend less because blah blah. Also, we have Arsene whereas they have had a gazillion managers in the last ten years

of course we need to spend money but the club is being prudent in not piling on the debt, not cocky.

[augie]

Aaarrghhhh For fcuks sake magic will you give the moral diatribe a rest. If the scum finish above us next season how many will be feeling smug about our controlled finances How many millions would we lose out on should that happen Our club are far too cocky and complacent thinking that they can continue to get by on the cheap and still qualify for champs league every season and it may have worked until now but if we dont change our transfer policy then that kick in the nuts we have all been dreading will be coming fast

who says it is immoral? I think it is unwise to spend cash like that but thousands of clubs have done it before, it certainly isn't evil. I was just saying Spurs are spendhing cash as they can blah blah while we spend less because blah blah. Also, we have Arsene whereas they have had a gazillion managers in the last ten years

of course we need to spend money but the club is being prudent in not piling on the debt, not cocky.

Prudent would be not spending it wildly as opposed to not spending it at all - please do not point to last summers purchases cos they were bought from henry's barca funds.

[Magic Hat]

That was Arsene's choice and the failure to land certain players that we wanted. Like Ribery

[REB]

magic,,
my thread was about prize money and tv money,, fact is spurs are spending the money they hope to earn while we put ours in the bank and rely on wenger to pick up cheap alternatives which now is not good enough if we are to challenge chelsea and man u

[Magic Hat]

didn't we challenge them for most of the season? Unfortunately we have to lose the debt first before spending such income all on players. Once that is done, we can use the TV money and money coming in from the stadium to have a big transfer budget every season.

[T.S]

didn't we challenge them for most of the season? Unfortunately we have to lose the debt first before spending such income all on players. Once that is done, we can use the TV money and money coming in from the stadium to have a big transfer budget every season.

Lose the debt? Well the debt repayments are fixed over 25 years, right? So when exactly are we supposed to start being able to compete with the mid-table clubs, let alone the top clubs?

Still, if we finish 5th next season, at least we can feel smug about the fact that we did it without a foreign owner. That’ll really stick it to Sp*rs and dampen the mood when they play their Champions League qualifying match...

[mrgnu1958]

i think when this sky money goes Tits up and prem clubs go to the wall.
Arsenal will buy everyone.
Hey presto we win the league
SORTED!

[26may1989]

my thread was about prize money and tv money,, fact is spurs are spending the money they hope to earn while we put ours in the bank and rely on wenger to pick up cheap alternatives which now is not good enough if we are to challenge chelsea and man u

Isn't that exactly what Leeds did? And West Ham? And Newcastle? And Bradford? Great examples to follow...

Why is everything such a disaster in your book? Look at the facts:

1. Even with shit luck, poor refereeing decisions and horrendous injuries, we're going to finish 3rd with 80-83 points (about 15 more points than last season and about 34 points more than Spurs) and got to the quarter finals of the Champs' League. And that was without making a net spend last summer. (And as you know, we weren't a million miles off winning the league.)

2. Our long-term debt is large but has been fixed at cheap rates (compare with Liverpool and Man U for examples of how it could be done badly). In the short-term (meaning within the next 2 years), when the property developments have been sold, more than £100m will be released, dealing with the bank facility and other short-term issues, meaning we will be financially competitive again.

3. We have some great young players (Cesc, Clichy, Sagna, Ade, RvP, Hleb, Rosicky, Eduardo, Toure) around whom our future can be built.

Whether you like it or not, finances matter. Arsenal is traditionally a big but not a huge club, compared with the established European elite (Milan, Inter, Juve, Bayern, Liverpool, Man U, Barca and Real), but the strong finances, coupled with Wenger, give us the chance of joining that group. And doing it on solid foundations. It's not a matter of morality, it's a matter of doing what is sensible so we can have sustained success, so the club can become something more than it has been. Without the move to Ashburton, and the investment that required, we would have been stuck in a small and unexpandable ground, and then we really would be vulnerable to Villa, Spurs, Everton etc catching us.

Sure, the club could just spunk all the TV and gate money up the wall now, it might even win a couple of league titles or even a Champions' League title in doing so, but would that be sustainable? And what happens if signing David Villa, Buffon, Ronaldinho doesn't deliver instant success? It took Chelsea a few years to translate their stolen Russian money into silverware - could we afford that sort of delay if we blow the cash now? If you look back in Arsenal's history books, it was also true of the Norris years after WWI - it was about 10 years after the move to Highbury before the "Bank of England" club actually started to win trophies. We're starting from a much better position than we did then, so I hope sustained success comes more quickly (even I'll be fucked off if it doesn't...).

We don't have the established resources that the elite clubs (plus Chelsea) do, and can't run the risks they can, yet. It is clear that we could, in the medium-term, join the elite club but that requires a bit of patience. Isn't that what investment is all about?

There are things the board has done that piss me off (the disinformation about transfer funds being chief amongst them), and Wenger's certainly not perfect (Almunia rather than Lehmann? Please. And Walcott should have been started when he was in form). I would also be pleased if a sensible deal with a sensible investor (like Kroenke) could be done, to lift Arsenal's finances now, so we can improve our competitiveness on the pitch earlier than we would if we just wait for the next two years. But if that doesn't happen, we should be willing to accept that it will be another couple of seasons before we return to competitiveness in the transfer market. For all that the board deserves criticism in some areas, on the big issues they've done well.

The club that should be most concerned about Spurs' spending are those below us, in particular Liverpool (who are 7 points behind us, remember) but also Everton, Villa, Pompey etc. That's what Spurs are competing with first and foremost.

There's nothing inevitable about Arsenal succeeding with what they're doing. But a lack of realism by Arsenal fans may one day lead to the board making really stupid decisions, based on a short-term desire to appease impatient and unrealistic Arsenal fans. The first signs of this impatience are already there, with, as we've seen recently, a few fans at Ashburton jeering Wenger, when they should be applauding him for his achievements this year.

Yes, Arsenal spend less than others, but that (in this phase) is a vital component in the club's project, to take this club from being a big English club into being a big European club. And given that we could well be looking at a European super league within the next ten years, it is crucial we grow over a period of time and not only cave into desires for instant success that undermine the longer term interests of the club.

[Magic Merse]

VERY well put 26th.

The only thing i would add to that is about wengers transfer policy.

Wenger dosn't just buy players beacuse the are cheap. He buys players who will fit in to the arsenal system, who can play the way arsenal play. Thats why as individual players we haven't got many 'superstars' or players who could get in to the Man U/Chelski/AC Milan etc. team.

Wenger moulds the team as a unit, gets everybody moving, thinking and passing the same way. So if David Villas style of play doesn't match arsenals, then why should we buy him. Theres no point in throwing a square peg in a round hole.

[donaldo]

26th may 1989

The point rebel was making was how come mid table teams like the Spuds,Newcastle,Man City and even Pompey are spending more than us.

As TS said the £350m debt was over 25 years, there is no urgency to pay it back.

So Magic Merse you wouldn"t sign Messi because he didn"t fit in the Arsenal system thats bollocks.Are you telling me Eboue does?

Dont be suprised if Cesc doesnt look at the situation and say fuck this i cant wait for success i am off to Spain.And what will you say then Magic Hat