No chance - as much as I rate the ox (and I do rate him), he hasnt developed to the point that he will take all the attention and cricticism that he will get tonight from the home crowd, and channel it into a good performance. In my opinion it is more likely that we will see another performance from him where he will run about all over the place trying too hard to make an impact, and will make a ton of mistakes in the process - in another club, under a better manager, this would have been coached out of him years ago, and I doubt if klopp could fix it in just 3 months
THE WENGER THREAD
Re: THE WENGER THREAD
No chance - as much as I rate the ox (and I do rate him), he hasnt developed to the point that he will take all the attention and cricticism that he will get tonight from the home crowd, and channel it into a good performance. In my opinion it is more likely that we will see another performance from him where he will run about all over the place trying too hard to make an impact, and will make a ton of mistakes in the process - in another club, under a better manager, this would have been coached out of him years ago, and I doubt if klopp could fix it in just 3 months
Re: THE WENGER THREAD
By taking dividends (under one name or another) which he will start doing before long, he already tested the water with his bogus "consultancy fee", also the value of the club is still rising, largely because of the silly TV deals, so it is a case of selling at the height of the market which may be 5-10 years away, I am hoping at that point there is a slim chance he might bugger off. Until then we are FUBAR, with or without Wenger, because with wiggy around we'll probably get De Boer or some other no mark as our next manager.NickF wrote: ↑Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:34 amHow is he going to make money other than selling his share which he states he has no intention of doing?
As for the premier league bubble bursting, there are rumours that Netflix and Amazon are interested in bidding for packages, so I don't think it will burst quite yet.
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LeftfootlegendGooner
- Posts: 10993
- Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:07 pm
Re: THE WENGER THREAD
Well think before you post thenGeneral wrote: ↑Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:31 amI knew someone would mention this. The argument about relegation is academic anyway. All things equal we will finish no lower than 7th with our resources regardless of what others wish. Wenger would've lost the dressing room if we ended up in a relegation scrap and he'd duly get his marching orders. I don't believe SK's support is unconditional.LeftfootlegendGooner wrote: ↑Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:22 amBut if you want us to lose every game and we do then we would deffo get relegated, or do you mean pick and choose the games we loseGeneral wrote: ↑Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:15 amFair enough if people think losing would not weaken Wenger's position but winning certainly strengthens his position and allows him to continue to project this deceitful outlook without any risk of getting called up on it. He is desperate and would squeeze every ounce out of the slighted bit of success he can find. The astonishing part is that results are now being underplayed as long as we have plenty of possession, 33shots on target or simply carry the greater attacking threat whiles abandoning the basics of defending. You only have to look at the reaction after the United game to see the short memories and how confused the picture has become for many fans. It didn't matter that the obvious structural weaknesses which have been present for the past decade were on once again on show or the fact that you could go back in time and find many similar performances.
The crux of the matter is we will never ever compete for the biggest prizes, see players reach their true potential, play quality football or even play with pride on a consistent basis as long as Wenger remains in charge, so can someone remind me what we're benefitting from winning football games? I can never wish relegation on my club and cannot agree with anyone who does, but anything else is fair game imo.
Re: THE WENGER THREAD
Wenger’s such a lucky fucker. Sounded like the fans were finally ready to go but those three goals saved him. In typical Wenger fashion though he couldn’t see it through and our ***** defending served as a stark reminder as to why we’ll never win the PL again with him in charge...
Re: THE WENGER THREAD
"Due to physiological problem"...
He then says the players themselves decided to stay deep against their pace.
No coaching at all then.
He then says the players themselves decided to stay deep against their pace.
No coaching at all then.
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rodders999
- Posts: 22724
- Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:59 pm
- Location: Diamond Club
Re: THE WENGER THREAD
The fucking leech reckons we "defended well" 
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Bradywasking
- Posts: 6251
- Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 9:14 am
Re: THE WENGER THREAD
Yes...when you are winning 3-2, allowing a diagonal pass through to a striker who is unmarked 18 yards out who then hits a hard but relatively straightforward shot at the keeper who pushes it up in the air and over his head into the net is defending out of the Italian books..
Re: THE WENGER THREAD
Palace away and Chavs twice in the next 5 games.....sure Wenger will be well prepared...Not
More pressure for the senile deluded old tosser, cannot wait for the press conferences for more insane rantings from Mr 30 years
More pressure for the senile deluded old tosser, cannot wait for the press conferences for more insane rantings from Mr 30 years
Re: THE WENGER THREAD
I'm not sure there's that much more money to come from TV. Sky are already charging 'Sky' high prices, I know a lot of people who are fed up with it. If Sky can't make their money back then the TV deals will be less and so football comes tumbling back down. It's a long shot but hopefully something like that will happen sooner rather than later!!
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OneBardGooner
- Posts: 48144
- Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2009 9:41 am
- Location: Close To The Edge
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OneBardGooner
- Posts: 48144
- Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2009 9:41 am
- Location: Close To The Edge
Re: THE WENGER THREAD
Last edited by OneBardGooner on Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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OneBardGooner
- Posts: 48144
- Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2009 9:41 am
- Location: Close To The Edge
Re: THE WENGER THREAD
From the Daily Express, putting the case for 10 reasons for Wenger to leave......
1. Arsenal and Arsene Wenger have gone backwards
From a position of strength in the mid-2000s, Arsenal are now viewed as poor relations compared to their rivals.
The move to the Emirates and the financial power of Chelsea, Manchester United and Manchester City have been contributing factors. But there's no doubt that the vast resources available to Arsenal have been misused.
Wenger is guilty of losing touch with his peers in several aspects, but most gallingly in terms of style of play.
Gone are the days when observers would say Arsenal play the most attractive football.
Much of what made Wenger's greatest teams so special is absent in the current iteration.
They have become a team devoid of inspiration, character, belief and confidence. And it all lies with the manager.
2. Arsenal players making the same old mistakes
Trust - Wenger's most admirable trait but also his biggest weakness.
The Arsenal boss will defend his players and attempt to instil confidence into them even when they least deserve it.
He's been let down on so many occasions, it's hard not to feel sorry for him.
Sloppy defending at set pieces, being caught on the counter-attack and carelessness in possession are all regular issues for Arsenal.
But when players continue to make basic errors, it comes a point when a ruthless edge is needed and Wenger hasn't displayed it enough and it has been to his detriment and Arsenal's.
If Wenger can't get his message across to the players anymore, there's little chance he can prevent them from committing the same mistakes.
3. Arsenal players not developing
Wenger had a wonderful reputation for enhancing the careers of players, in particular, ones in attack.
Thierry Henry, Freddie Ljungberg, Robin van Persie all benefitted from Wenger's coaching.
But in recent years, you can probably count on one hand the number of players who have developed under the Arsenal boss.
Nacho Monreal, Laurent Koscielny and Olivier Giroud are two examples of players that have grown under him but that's not enough.
Others like Hector Bellerin and Alex Iwobi have broken through but been unable to maintain their levels consistently despite their obvious ability.
You could argue Alexis Sanchez is a better player than the one who left Barcelona but his sheer force of will meant he wasn't going to take a backward step.
However, Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain, Gabriel and Wojciech Szczesny all failed to progress and they have been sold.
It's a damning indictment when you see the visible improvements Pep Guardiola and Mauricio Pochettino have made for players at Manchester City and Tottenham.
4. Ongoing Premier League title drought
If you'd said after Arsenal went the entire league season unbeaten in 2004, that they wouldn't win it again for at least 14 years, you would have been laughed out of the room.
Yet that is the scenario facing the Gunners as they sit a distant 21 points behind Man City.
Expectations at Arsenal have dropped so much, nobody seriously gave them a chance of winning the league this season and the sceptics have been proved right.
Put simply, that is not good enough for a club of Arsenal's stature. With the money spent and the huge wage bill at Arsenal, something has gone dramatically awry.
Under Wenger, it is clear Arsenal's hopes of winning the league are non-existent.
5. Alexis Sanchez and Mesut Ozil contract farce
For a top club to be at risk of losing one world class player is poor. To be facing the prospect of losing two world-class players is gross negligence.
But that is the situation facing Arsenal as they enter 2018 with Alexis Sanchez and Mesut Ozil.
In their defence, Arsenal have tried repeatedly to convince them to sign new deals but with every month that passed without an agreement, they lost their leverage.
In hindsight, with the considerable interest in Sanchez, he should have been sold because his temperament and attitude have been disgraceful at times.
The relationship with his team-mates is flimsy at best and he appears to have little regard for the supporters. He is simply passing the time until he can leave.
In comparison, Ozil has remained Arsenal's creator-in-chief and it looks as though he could eventually be convinced to stay.
But ultimately the reason they haven't committed their futures is that they don't believe they can win the Premier League and Champions League with Arsenal - and they're right.
Wenger has not assembled a good enough squad to give them the support their talents needed and Arsenal will find it difficult to replace them.
6. Falling Emirates attendances
Arsenal's official attendance compared to those actually in the Emirates has become a running joke in recent years.
For the Europa League game against BATE Borisov this month, 54,648 was given as the attendance but it was later acknowledged that the real number was under 30,000.
In 2009, Arsenal could get a full house to watch the youth team in the League Cup.
It’s been a dramatic loss of support as fans make their feeling clear by not turning up.
But when you combine an often predictable and tedious style of football with widespread apathy, empty seats are an inevitable result.
7. Transfer market flops
One of Arsenal’s major problems has been their lack of effectiveness in the transfer market.
Wenger’s reluctance to spend and trust in the players he has means those that do arrive need to be successes.
But the likes of Yaya Sanogo, Mathieu Debuchy, Gabriel, Mohamed Elneny and Lucas Pérez have failed to strengthen the Arsenal squad.
The jury is out on Granit Xhaka and Shkodran Mustafi while this summer's buys Alexandre Lacazette and Sead Kolasinac have made steady but unspectacular starts to their Arsenal careers.
The decision not to sign any outfield players in 2015 was a disastrous decision by Wenger when it was obvious investment was needed.
In terms of outgoings, Arsenal haven't been able to offload players for their right price meaning less money in the transfer kitty to spend.
Arsenal have invested heavily in football data analytics to help in the decision process for players and they are yet to reap the rewards which has led to their downfall.
8. Champions League qualification failure
With Arsenal's decline, clubs like Spurs and Liverpool have overtaken them and meant they face an uphill battle to finish in the top four.
After years of qualifying for the Champions League, Arsenal failed to so last season and will need a mammoth effort in the second half of this campaign to return to Europe's premier competition.
Without the Champions League, Arsenal will struggle to attract the calibre of players needed to win major honours. Yet in truth, Arsenal have not looked close to winning the Champions League since 2006 and seven consecutive exits in the last 16 is a dismal record.
Not qualifying for a second successive year would be a huge failure by Wenger and Arsenal.
9. Fresh voice needed
Above all else, a fresh outlook and perspective is perhaps the most important reason why Wenger should leave.
To stay at one club for over 20 years is a remarkable record but all things must eventually come to an end.
Wenger has had ample opportunity to mix things up but has demonstrated a stubbornness which has held back the club.
Arsenal players have made mistakes for years knowing they would be protected by the Frenchman and thus not taking responsibility for their actions.
A different voice could make all the difference in getting that extra 10 per cent out of the players.
A new manager would bring in a new style, philosophy and hopefully a change in mentality to maximise the most from players.
A change in perception is also needed. For too long Arsenal have been easy to play against, labelled soft, accused of buying the same type of player.
A fresh approach would force people to start thinking about Arsenal differently.
If it doesn't work, so be it. Chelsea are evidence that hiring and firing managers does not lead to a total collapse.
Off the field, Wenger's grip on all areas of the club is slowly being removed with the arrival of a new chief scout and director of football operations.
Only Sir Alex Ferguson can boast about the type of control which Wenger has exerted at Arsenal.
It has gone stale at Arsenal and only Wenger's departure will freshen things up.
10. Diminishing legacy
Despite everything, one thing Wenger deserves above all else is respect.
Fan disappointment is completely understandable but at times it has spilled over into unnecessary vitriol.
There's no doubt Wenger's legacy has been diminished by Arsenal's failings over the past few years and he will be displeased by that.
But he loves the club dearly, you see written all over his face whether Arsenal win or lose.
Which is why for the good of the club, he should step aside to let Arsenal move forward.
Almost everything is in place for Arsenal to push on with a renewed sense of optimism, belief and attitude.
In time, a statue will be built to honour the memories he has given, the sacrifices he's made and loyalty showed.
And that is the least he deserves because it's difficult to put into words the impact he's had.
1. Arsenal and Arsene Wenger have gone backwards
From a position of strength in the mid-2000s, Arsenal are now viewed as poor relations compared to their rivals.
The move to the Emirates and the financial power of Chelsea, Manchester United and Manchester City have been contributing factors. But there's no doubt that the vast resources available to Arsenal have been misused.
Wenger is guilty of losing touch with his peers in several aspects, but most gallingly in terms of style of play.
Gone are the days when observers would say Arsenal play the most attractive football.
Much of what made Wenger's greatest teams so special is absent in the current iteration.
They have become a team devoid of inspiration, character, belief and confidence. And it all lies with the manager.
2. Arsenal players making the same old mistakes
Trust - Wenger's most admirable trait but also his biggest weakness.
The Arsenal boss will defend his players and attempt to instil confidence into them even when they least deserve it.
He's been let down on so many occasions, it's hard not to feel sorry for him.
Sloppy defending at set pieces, being caught on the counter-attack and carelessness in possession are all regular issues for Arsenal.
But when players continue to make basic errors, it comes a point when a ruthless edge is needed and Wenger hasn't displayed it enough and it has been to his detriment and Arsenal's.
If Wenger can't get his message across to the players anymore, there's little chance he can prevent them from committing the same mistakes.
3. Arsenal players not developing
Wenger had a wonderful reputation for enhancing the careers of players, in particular, ones in attack.
Thierry Henry, Freddie Ljungberg, Robin van Persie all benefitted from Wenger's coaching.
But in recent years, you can probably count on one hand the number of players who have developed under the Arsenal boss.
Nacho Monreal, Laurent Koscielny and Olivier Giroud are two examples of players that have grown under him but that's not enough.
Others like Hector Bellerin and Alex Iwobi have broken through but been unable to maintain their levels consistently despite their obvious ability.
You could argue Alexis Sanchez is a better player than the one who left Barcelona but his sheer force of will meant he wasn't going to take a backward step.
However, Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain, Gabriel and Wojciech Szczesny all failed to progress and they have been sold.
It's a damning indictment when you see the visible improvements Pep Guardiola and Mauricio Pochettino have made for players at Manchester City and Tottenham.
4. Ongoing Premier League title drought
If you'd said after Arsenal went the entire league season unbeaten in 2004, that they wouldn't win it again for at least 14 years, you would have been laughed out of the room.
Yet that is the scenario facing the Gunners as they sit a distant 21 points behind Man City.
Expectations at Arsenal have dropped so much, nobody seriously gave them a chance of winning the league this season and the sceptics have been proved right.
Put simply, that is not good enough for a club of Arsenal's stature. With the money spent and the huge wage bill at Arsenal, something has gone dramatically awry.
Under Wenger, it is clear Arsenal's hopes of winning the league are non-existent.
5. Alexis Sanchez and Mesut Ozil contract farce
For a top club to be at risk of losing one world class player is poor. To be facing the prospect of losing two world-class players is gross negligence.
But that is the situation facing Arsenal as they enter 2018 with Alexis Sanchez and Mesut Ozil.
In their defence, Arsenal have tried repeatedly to convince them to sign new deals but with every month that passed without an agreement, they lost their leverage.
In hindsight, with the considerable interest in Sanchez, he should have been sold because his temperament and attitude have been disgraceful at times.
The relationship with his team-mates is flimsy at best and he appears to have little regard for the supporters. He is simply passing the time until he can leave.
In comparison, Ozil has remained Arsenal's creator-in-chief and it looks as though he could eventually be convinced to stay.
But ultimately the reason they haven't committed their futures is that they don't believe they can win the Premier League and Champions League with Arsenal - and they're right.
Wenger has not assembled a good enough squad to give them the support their talents needed and Arsenal will find it difficult to replace them.
6. Falling Emirates attendances
Arsenal's official attendance compared to those actually in the Emirates has become a running joke in recent years.
For the Europa League game against BATE Borisov this month, 54,648 was given as the attendance but it was later acknowledged that the real number was under 30,000.
In 2009, Arsenal could get a full house to watch the youth team in the League Cup.
It’s been a dramatic loss of support as fans make their feeling clear by not turning up.
But when you combine an often predictable and tedious style of football with widespread apathy, empty seats are an inevitable result.
7. Transfer market flops
One of Arsenal’s major problems has been their lack of effectiveness in the transfer market.
Wenger’s reluctance to spend and trust in the players he has means those that do arrive need to be successes.
But the likes of Yaya Sanogo, Mathieu Debuchy, Gabriel, Mohamed Elneny and Lucas Pérez have failed to strengthen the Arsenal squad.
The jury is out on Granit Xhaka and Shkodran Mustafi while this summer's buys Alexandre Lacazette and Sead Kolasinac have made steady but unspectacular starts to their Arsenal careers.
The decision not to sign any outfield players in 2015 was a disastrous decision by Wenger when it was obvious investment was needed.
In terms of outgoings, Arsenal haven't been able to offload players for their right price meaning less money in the transfer kitty to spend.
Arsenal have invested heavily in football data analytics to help in the decision process for players and they are yet to reap the rewards which has led to their downfall.
8. Champions League qualification failure
With Arsenal's decline, clubs like Spurs and Liverpool have overtaken them and meant they face an uphill battle to finish in the top four.
After years of qualifying for the Champions League, Arsenal failed to so last season and will need a mammoth effort in the second half of this campaign to return to Europe's premier competition.
Without the Champions League, Arsenal will struggle to attract the calibre of players needed to win major honours. Yet in truth, Arsenal have not looked close to winning the Champions League since 2006 and seven consecutive exits in the last 16 is a dismal record.
Not qualifying for a second successive year would be a huge failure by Wenger and Arsenal.
9. Fresh voice needed
Above all else, a fresh outlook and perspective is perhaps the most important reason why Wenger should leave.
To stay at one club for over 20 years is a remarkable record but all things must eventually come to an end.
Wenger has had ample opportunity to mix things up but has demonstrated a stubbornness which has held back the club.
Arsenal players have made mistakes for years knowing they would be protected by the Frenchman and thus not taking responsibility for their actions.
A different voice could make all the difference in getting that extra 10 per cent out of the players.
A new manager would bring in a new style, philosophy and hopefully a change in mentality to maximise the most from players.
A change in perception is also needed. For too long Arsenal have been easy to play against, labelled soft, accused of buying the same type of player.
A fresh approach would force people to start thinking about Arsenal differently.
If it doesn't work, so be it. Chelsea are evidence that hiring and firing managers does not lead to a total collapse.
Off the field, Wenger's grip on all areas of the club is slowly being removed with the arrival of a new chief scout and director of football operations.
Only Sir Alex Ferguson can boast about the type of control which Wenger has exerted at Arsenal.
It has gone stale at Arsenal and only Wenger's departure will freshen things up.
10. Diminishing legacy
Despite everything, one thing Wenger deserves above all else is respect.
Fan disappointment is completely understandable but at times it has spilled over into unnecessary vitriol.
There's no doubt Wenger's legacy has been diminished by Arsenal's failings over the past few years and he will be displeased by that.
But he loves the club dearly, you see written all over his face whether Arsenal win or lose.
Which is why for the good of the club, he should step aside to let Arsenal move forward.
Almost everything is in place for Arsenal to push on with a renewed sense of optimism, belief and attitude.
In time, a statue will be built to honour the memories he has given, the sacrifices he's made and loyalty showed.
And that is the least he deserves because it's difficult to put into words the impact he's had.
Re: THE WENGER THREAD
The team has changed yet the playing philosophy remains the same and this is why we will never compete under Wenger again. The football we play went out of date 10years ago and our obvious weaknesses without the ball is there for all to see. A top coach would immediately change this. It may not necessarily result in success but we'd arrest the decline. However I think the next manager is going to have an absolute nightmare building a top squad and we don't have £300m to piss up the wall like City.
Anyway Merry Christmas. Just think tonight some giant Christmas tree might come crashing down in the Totteridge area narrowly missing a certain French accountant but leaving him fearful and incapable of carrying on with his other job as a football coach.
Anyway Merry Christmas. Just think tonight some giant Christmas tree might come crashing down in the Totteridge area narrowly missing a certain French accountant but leaving him fearful and incapable of carrying on with his other job as a football coach.
