Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

[SteveO 35]

If he gets us into the top four, then even his harshest critics (me amongst them) would have to concede that the club should offer him a new deal. I can't believe anyone within the club's board or leadership group would really have expected City, Liverpool or Chavski to be overhauled this season, and so 4th is very much the top 'realistic' position on offer. We had a good crack at the League Cup, so if we finish 4th it will really only be the FA Cup that was a massive underachievement, and that defeat at Forest was still a painful one for me because we should have knocked them over.

If we do finish 4th then Rob and some of the others on here that said it would be a good thing to have no European football, would definitely have been proved correct. I had my doubts about that argument because I believe a top team needs to have regular games against top teams and also see the EL in particular as an excellent development tool for the younger players. The club has chosen to address that final point of course by cutting the squad down to the lowest level any of us can remember. One feels certain that Balogun would have had EL game time, and therefore we have to hope that Middlesbrough proves as invaluable experience as the EL Group stages did for the likes of Martinelli and Saka in previous years.

The next phase of course is what happens if this team does make the CL? Unlike the EL, there really is little wriggle room for playing youngsters as almost every game provides a proper competitive challenge. In that case, our current squad would be woefully under powered and you would think a minimum of 3-4 major additions would need to be brought in, rising even further should the expected departures of Laca and others take place

I have no confidence that he will ever bring Saliba into the fold, so that means the CB position will be threadbare. Having sold Chambers, we can't be serious about Cedric as a back up to Tommy? The defensive midfield axis is fucked already without CL football so a minimum of one, and probably more likely two will be needed there. If Laca and Eddie go, then we will have no CFs at all apart from Balogun who really will only be good for rotation next season.

It's really the reason why I don't miss CL football at all under this owner - we will never be equipped to cope with the rigours of it. EL yes, CL no.

If Arteta gets us into the CL, then for sure he should be given a new deal but whoever does the job will be ruthlessly exposed if this current squad go into a season of CL football - so if they back him with a deal, he also needs at least as much investment as the last window, arguably more

You honestly believe those points buddy ?? A lack of quality will explain the lack of wins against the victims and citeeh, but what reason/excuse do we have for dropping pts against the likes of burnley, brentford and everton (all fighting relegation) when we cant cite too many fixtures due to european games ?
I believe that we will get top 4 now - I believe that we have improved this season, but I also believe that this improvement wouldnt have been enough to secure top 4 in other seasons. I believe that there are other managers that we could get that would do much better with these players than pep's coneboy, whose in game management is for the most part absolutely woeful.
I know he is going to get a new deal, but what I dont get is that we are willing to reward him with a massive new contract - imo there will be serious clamour for his sacking by end of next season, but by then he will have forced saliba and a few others out, and will have given a new contract to the likes of xhaka and el ninny

As I said, its not really an argument I initially bought into but the facts will be there to see if we finish 4th. We all think this is a painfully thin squad and you just have to look at the lack of depth on the bench to see that now. Imagine if this group were subjected to regular Thursday night football at the moment?

[Ernie71]

If he gets us into the top four, then even his harshest critics (me amongst them) would have to concede that the club should offer him a new deal. I can't believe anyone within the club's board or leadership group would really have expected City, Liverpool or Chavski to be overhauled this season, and so 4th is very much the top 'realistic' position on offer. We had a good crack at the League Cup, so if we finish 4th it will really only be the FA Cup that was a massive underachievement, and that defeat at Forest was still a painful one for me because we should have knocked them over.

If we do finish 4th then Rob and some of the others on here that said it would be a good thing to have no European football, would definitely have been proved correct. I had my doubts about that argument because I believe a top team needs to have regular games against top teams and also see the EL in particular as an excellent development tool for the younger players. The club has chosen to address that final point of course by cutting the squad down to the lowest level any of us can remember. One feels certain that Balogun would have had EL game time, and therefore we have to hope that Middlesbrough proves as invaluable experience as the EL Group stages did for the likes of Martinelli and Saka in previous years.

The next phase of course is what happens if this team does make the CL? Unlike the EL, there really is little wriggle room for playing youngsters as almost every game provides a proper competitive challenge. In that case, our current squad would be woefully under powered and you would think a minimum of 3-4 major additions would need to be brought in, rising even further should the expected departures of Laca and others take place

I have no confidence that he will ever bring Saliba into the fold, so that means the CB position will be threadbare. Having sold Chambers, we can't be serious about Cedric as a back up to Tommy? The defensive midfield axis is fucked already without CL football so a minimum of one, and probably more likely two will be needed there. If Laca and Eddie go, then we will have no CFs at all apart from Balogun who really will only be good for rotation next season.

It's really the reason why I don't miss CL football at all under this owner - we will never be equipped to cope with the rigours of it. EL yes, CL no.

If Arteta gets us into the CL, then for sure he should be given a new deal but whoever does the job will be ruthlessly exposed if this current squad go into a season of CL football - so if they back him with a deal, he also needs at least as much investment as the last window, arguably more

You honestly believe those points buddy ?? A lack of quality will explain the lack of wins against the victims and citeeh, but what reason/excuse do we have for dropping pts against the likes of burnley, brentford and everton (all fighting relegation) when we cant cite too many fixtures due to european games ?
I believe that we will get top 4 now - I believe that we have improved this season, but I also believe that this improvement wouldnt have been enough to secure top 4 in other seasons. I believe that there are other managers that we could get that would do much better with these players than pep's coneboy, whose in game management is for the most part absolutely woeful.
I know he is going to get a new deal, but what I dont get is that we are willing to reward him with a massive new contract - imo there will be serious clamour for his sacking by end of next season, but by then he will have forced saliba and a few others out, and will have given a new contract to the likes of xhaka and el ninny

As I said, its not really an argument I initially bought into but the facts will be there to see if we finish 4th. We all think this is a painfully thin squad and you just have to look at the lack of depth on the bench to see that now. Imagine if this group were subjected to regular Thursday night football at the moment?

Do i believe Arteta can take us further?No. City Liverpool and Chelsea are still in the CL and the FA cup and are miles ahead of us while since the beginning of January all we have been playing are league games.We are still short of a CM instead of Xhaka and we dont have a striker while Liverpool have Salah Mane Jota Firmino and Diaz FFS.

[Ernie71]

If he gets us into the top four, then even his harshest critics (me amongst them) would have to concede that the club should offer him a new deal. I can't believe anyone within the club's board or leadership group would really have expected City, Liverpool or Chavski to be overhauled this season, and so 4th is very much the top 'realistic' position on offer. We had a good crack at the League Cup, so if we finish 4th it will really only be the FA Cup that was a massive underachievement, and that defeat at Forest was still a painful one for me because we should have knocked them over.

If we do finish 4th then Rob and some of the others on here that said it would be a good thing to have no European football, would definitely have been proved correct. I had my doubts about that argument because I believe a top team needs to have regular games against top teams and also see the EL in particular as an excellent development tool for the younger players. The club has chosen to address that final point of course by cutting the squad down to the lowest level any of us can remember. One feels certain that Balogun would have had EL game time, and therefore we have to hope that Middlesbrough proves as invaluable experience as the EL Group stages did for the likes of Martinelli and Saka in previous years.

The next phase of course is what happens if this team does make the CL? Unlike the EL, there really is little wriggle room for playing youngsters as almost every game provides a proper competitive challenge. In that case, our current squad would be woefully under powered and you would think a minimum of 3-4 major additions would need to be brought in, rising even further should the expected departures of Laca and others take place

I have no confidence that he will ever bring Saliba into the fold, so that means the CB position will be threadbare. Having sold Chambers, we can't be serious about Cedric as a back up to Tommy? The defensive midfield axis is fucked already without CL football so a minimum of one, and probably more likely two will be needed there. If Laca and Eddie go, then we will have no CFs at all apart from Balogun who really will only be good for rotation next season.

It's really the reason why I don't miss CL football at all under this owner - we will never be equipped to cope with the rigours of it. EL yes, CL no.

If Arteta gets us into the CL, then for sure he should be given a new deal but whoever does the job will be ruthlessly exposed if this current squad go into a season of CL football - so if they back him with a deal, he also needs at least as much investment as the last window, arguably more

You honestly believe those points buddy ?? A lack of quality will explain the lack of wins against the victims and citeeh, but what reason/excuse do we have for dropping pts against the likes of burnley, brentford and everton (all fighting relegation) when we cant cite too many fixtures due to european games ?
I believe that we will get top 4 now - I believe that we have improved this season, but I also believe that this improvement wouldnt have been enough to secure top 4 in other seasons. I believe that there are other managers that we could get that would do much better with these players than pep's coneboy, whose in game management is for the most part absolutely woeful.
I know he is going to get a new deal, but what I dont get is that we are willing to reward him with a massive new contract - imo there will be serious clamour for his sacking by end of next season, but by then he will have forced saliba and a few others out, and will have given a new contract to the likes of xhaka and el ninny

As I said, its not really an argument I initially bought into but the facts will be there to see if we finish 4th. We all think this is a painfully thin squad and you just have to look at the lack of depth on the bench to see that now. Imagine if this group were subjected to regular Thursday night football at the moment?

Do i believe Arteta can take us further?No. City Liverpool and Chelsea are still in the CL and the FA cup and are miles ahead of us while since the beginning of January all we have been playing are league games.We are still short of a CM instead of Xhaka and we dont have a striker while Liverpool have Salah Mane Jota Firmino and Diaz FFS.

[Nos89]

If he gets us into the top four, then even his harshest critics (me amongst them) would have to concede that the club should offer him a new deal. I can't believe anyone within the club's board or leadership group would really have expected City, Liverpool or Chavski to be overhauled this season, and so 4th is very much the top 'realistic' position on offer. We had a good crack at the League Cup, so if we finish 4th it will really only be the FA Cup that was a massive underachievement, and that defeat at Forest was still a painful one for me because we should have knocked them over.

If we do finish 4th then Rob and some of the others on here that said it would be a good thing to have no European football, would definitely have been proved correct. I had my doubts about that argument because I believe a top team needs to have regular games against top teams and also see the EL in particular as an excellent development tool for the younger players. The club has chosen to address that final point of course by cutting the squad down to the lowest level any of us can remember. One feels certain that Balogun would have had EL game time, and therefore we have to hope that Middlesbrough proves as invaluable experience as the EL Group stages did for the likes of Martinelli and Saka in previous years.

The next phase of course is what happens if this team does make the CL? Unlike the EL, there really is little wriggle room for playing youngsters as almost every game provides a proper competitive challenge. In that case, our current squad would be woefully under powered and you would think a minimum of 3-4 major additions would need to be brought in, rising even further should the expected departures of Laca and others take place

I have no confidence that he will ever bring Saliba into the fold, so that means the CB position will be threadbare. Having sold Chambers, we can't be serious about Cedric as a back up to Tommy? The defensive midfield axis is fucked already without CL football so a minimum of one, and probably more likely two will be needed there. If Laca and Eddie go, then we will have no CFs at all apart from Balogun who really will only be good for rotation next season.

It's really the reason why I don't miss CL football at all under this owner - we will never be equipped to cope with the rigours of it. EL yes, CL no.

If Arteta gets us into the CL, then for sure he should be given a new deal but whoever does the job will be ruthlessly exposed if this current squad go into a season of CL football - so if they back him with a deal, he also needs at least as much investment as the last window, arguably more

You honestly believe those points buddy ?? A lack of quality will explain the lack of wins against the victims and citeeh, but what reason/excuse do we have for dropping pts against the likes of burnley, brentford and everton (all fighting relegation) when we cant cite too many fixtures due to european games ?
I believe that we will get top 4 now - I believe that we have improved this season, but I also believe that this improvement wouldnt have been enough to secure top 4 in other seasons. I believe that there are other managers that we could get that would do much better with these players than pep's coneboy, whose in game management is for the most part absolutely woeful.
I know he is going to get a new deal, but what I dont get is that we are willing to reward him with a massive new contract - imo there will be serious clamour for his sacking by end of next season, but by then he will have forced saliba and a few others out, and will have given a new contract to the likes of xhaka and el ninny

As I said, its not really an argument I initially bought into but the facts will be there to see if we finish 4th. We all think this is a painfully thin squad and you just have to look at the lack of depth on the bench to see that now. Imagine if this group were subjected to regular Thursday night football at the moment?

And this is the reason why we have trimmed the squad back. No cup or European football to blend into our calendar, no need for a huge squad. Personally, I believe had we not gone out of the FA cup and reached the league cup final Aubameyang and Chambers would still be at the club.

[gooner265]

If he gets us into the top four, then even his harshest critics (me amongst them) would have to concede that the club should offer him a new deal. I can't believe anyone within the club's board or leadership group would really have expected City, Liverpool or Chavski to be overhauled this season, and so 4th is very much the top 'realistic' position on offer. We had a good crack at the League Cup, so if we finish 4th it will really only be the FA Cup that was a massive underachievement, and that defeat at Forest was still a painful one for me because we should have knocked them over.

If we do finish 4th then Rob and some of the others on here that said it would be a good thing to have no European football, would definitely have been proved correct. I had my doubts about that argument because I believe a top team needs to have regular games against top teams and also see the EL in particular as an excellent development tool for the younger players. The club has chosen to address that final point of course by cutting the squad down to the lowest level any of us can remember. One feels certain that Balogun would have had EL game time, and therefore we have to hope that Middlesbrough proves as invaluable experience as the EL Group stages did for the likes of Martinelli and Saka in previous years.

The next phase of course is what happens if this team does make the CL? Unlike the EL, there really is little wriggle room for playing youngsters as almost every game provides a proper competitive challenge. In that case, our current squad would be woefully under powered and you would think a minimum of 3-4 major additions would need to be brought in, rising even further should the expected departures of Laca and others take place

I have no confidence that he will ever bring Saliba into the fold, so that means the CB position will be threadbare. Having sold Chambers, we can't be serious about Cedric as a back up to Tommy? The defensive midfield axis is fucked already without CL football so a minimum of one, and probably more likely two will be needed there. If Laca and Eddie go, then we will have no CFs at all apart from Balogun who really will only be good for rotation next season.

It's really the reason why I don't miss CL football at all under this owner - we will never be equipped to cope with the rigours of it. EL yes, CL no.

If Arteta gets us into the CL, then for sure he should be given a new deal but whoever does the job will be ruthlessly exposed if this current squad go into a season of CL football - so if they back him with a deal, he also needs at least as much investment as the last window, arguably more

You honestly believe those points buddy ?? A lack of quality will explain the lack of wins against the victims and citeeh, but what reason/excuse do we have for dropping pts against the likes of burnley, brentford and everton (all fighting relegation) when we cant cite too many fixtures due to european games ?
I believe that we will get top 4 now - I believe that we have improved this season, but I also believe that this improvement wouldnt have been enough to secure top 4 in other seasons. I believe that there are other managers that we could get that would do much better with these players than pep's coneboy, whose in game management is for the most part absolutely woeful.
I know he is going to get a new deal, but what I dont get is that we are willing to reward him with a massive new contract - imo there will be serious clamour for his sacking by end of next season, but by then he will have forced saliba and a few others out, and will have given a new contract to the likes of xhaka and el ninny

Out of interest Augie , which other managers would be on your shortlist if you had the power to sack Arteta today ?

[Clummo99]

People still clinging to the anti-Arteta agenda and refusing to accept that we have improved immensely. This time last year we were certainties for relegation under him according to some.

Liverpool, Man City and the Chavs are so far ahead of everyone else that to finish 4th is to be top of the rest.

We're in the fight for 4th and I certainly would have taken that this time last year.

As I've said before, the summer window is huge and we must do our utmost to bring in the right players.

[SteveO 35]

There seem to be some pretty extreme views out there both ways to be fair.

Win a few games and everyone who hated Emery and Wenger will say its beyond any reasonable doubt that we've progressed, lose a few and anyone who was against Arteta's appointment will say there hasn't been any improvement

From where I stand there have been several pockets of time in Arteta's tenure where we've had our hopes raised - the FA Cup & Community Shield ones being obvious ones, but other stand out performances (winning at OT, Stamford Bridge, beating Liverpool etc). There have also been periods where we've plumbed new depths (15th in the league, breaking all the wrong records for home defeats, goals scored etc)......so the reality is that there has been a mixture of good and bad. As recently as January, anyone who was a voice 'against' could point to a terrible run of form and lack of goals, where as anyone 'for' is now saying on the back of Feburary that we've improved measurably

I think the reality is that we just won't know until the season is done. Whilst I completely agree that 4th at the start of the season would have been beyond my wildest hopes, it also was when Emery took over. When you get into a position where its within grasp however, the dial gets reset. There is absolutely no doubt that Man United and Spurs are an absolute shambles - both on their second managers this season and neither of them doing well either, to the point they will probably both be on a third manager in a year come the start of next season. I also maintain that our squad, the youth prospects and 160m spent should be enough to see us above West Ham every day of the week.

Finish 4th and can we say there has been progress? Of course we can

Finish 5th and for my money we are no further on from where we were 3 years ago......and I'd argue that we'd achieved the same position as back then having invested 4x more in the transfer window and without the distractions of cup/European football that many argued would be a great thing for us.

I sincerely hope its the former and if that means everyone gets off (as is the want these days) on dragging up previous posts, then I'll live with it. Better to have an opinion than sit on a fence, otherwise forums like this would be dead. Its also ok to hold your hands up and say you've got something wrong (albeit some find it harder than others).

We will see fellas, we will see....

[Redarmy]

People still clinging to the anti-Arteta agenda and refusing to accept that we have improved immensely. This time last year we were certainties for relegation under him according to some.

Liverpool, Man City and the Chavs are so far ahead of everyone else that to finish 4th is to be top of the rest.

We're in the fight for 4th and I certainly would have taken that this time last year.

As I've said before, the summer window is huge and we must do our utmost to bring in the right players.

Absolutely, and hopefully with the 4th place can only help to attract some of the right players

[LeftfootlegendGooner]

There seem to be some pretty extreme views out there both ways to be fair.

Win a few games and everyone who hated Emery and Wenger will say its beyond any reasonable doubt that we've progressed, lose a few and anyone who was against Arteta's appointment will say there hasn't been any improvement

From where I stand there have been several pockets of time in Arteta's tenure where we've had our hopes raised - the FA Cup & Community Shield ones being obvious ones, but other stand out performances (winning at OT, Stamford Bridge, beating Liverpool etc). There have also been periods where we've plumbed new depths (15th in the league, breaking all the wrong records for home defeats, goals scored etc)......so the reality is that there has been a mixture of good and bad. As recently as January, anyone who was a voice 'against' could point to a terrible run of form and lack of goals, where as anyone 'for' is now saying on the back of Feburary that we've improved measurably

I think the reality is that we just won't know until the season is done. Whilst I completely agree that 4th at the start of the season would have been beyond my wildest hopes, it also was when Emery took over. When you get into a position where its within grasp however, the dial gets reset. There is absolutely no doubt that Man United and Spurs are an absolute shambles - both on their second managers this season and neither of them doing well either, to the point they will probably both be on a third manager in a year come the start of next season. I also maintain that our squad, the youth prospects and 160m spent should be enough to see us above West Ham every day of the week.

Finish 4th and can we say there has been progress? Of course we can

Finish 5th and for my money we are no further on from where we were 3 years ago......and I'd argue that we'd achieved the same position as back then having invested 4x more in the transfer window and without the distractions of cup/European football that many argued would be a great thing for us.

I sincerely hope its the former and if that means everyone gets off (as is the want these days) on dragging up previous posts, then I'll live with it. Better to have an opinion than sit on a fence, otherwise forums like this would be dead. Its also ok to hold your hands up and say you've got something wrong (albeit some find it harder than others).

We will see fellas, we will see....

I agree, 4th is very achievable now and I also agree that manu, the spuds, spammers are very inconsistent so 4th is the easiest it's been for 3 years when we somehow missed out but you're right in that it's when it's expected, players and managers get found out if they have the bottle.

That's where we have come up short so many times because players and managers didn't have what it takes when the pressure was on, my only concern would be a lack of goal scorers, had we had a quality striker I think we would be favourites.

Hopefully our youngsters won't feel the pressure like some of the old guard as there is nothing like the confidence of youth, if ESR, Saka and Martinelli can keep scoring along with lacca remembering that he is a striker.

[SteveO 35]

There seem to be some pretty extreme views out there both ways to be fair.

Win a few games and everyone who hated Emery and Wenger will say its beyond any reasonable doubt that we've progressed, lose a few and anyone who was against Arteta's appointment will say there hasn't been any improvement

From where I stand there have been several pockets of time in Arteta's tenure where we've had our hopes raised - the FA Cup & Community Shield ones being obvious ones, but other stand out performances (winning at OT, Stamford Bridge, beating Liverpool etc). There have also been periods where we've plumbed new depths (15th in the league, breaking all the wrong records for home defeats, goals scored etc)......so the reality is that there has been a mixture of good and bad. As recently as January, anyone who was a voice 'against' could point to a terrible run of form and lack of goals, where as anyone 'for' is now saying on the back of Feburary that we've improved measurably

I think the reality is that we just won't know until the season is done. Whilst I completely agree that 4th at the start of the season would have been beyond my wildest hopes, it also was when Emery took over. When you get into a position where its within grasp however, the dial gets reset. There is absolutely no doubt that Man United and Spurs are an absolute shambles - both on their second managers this season and neither of them doing well either, to the point they will probably both be on a third manager in a year come the start of next season. I also maintain that our squad, the youth prospects and 160m spent should be enough to see us above West Ham every day of the week.

Finish 4th and can we say there has been progress? Of course we can

Finish 5th and for my money we are no further on from where we were 3 years ago......and I'd argue that we'd achieved the same position as back then having invested 4x more in the transfer window and without the distractions of cup/European football that many argued would be a great thing for us.

I sincerely hope its the former and if that means everyone gets off (as is the want these days) on dragging up previous posts, then I'll live with it. Better to have an opinion than sit on a fence, otherwise forums like this would be dead. Its also ok to hold your hands up and say you've got something wrong (albeit some find it harder than others).

We will see fellas, we will see....

I agree, 4th is very achievable now and I also agree that manu, the spuds, spammers are very inconsistent so 4th is the easiest it's been for 3 years when we somehow missed out but you're right in that it's when it's expected, players and managers get found out if they have the bottle.

That's where we have come up short so many times because players and managers didn't have what it takes when the pressure was on, my only concern would be a lack of goal scorers, had we had a quality striker I think we would be favourites.

Hopefully our youngsters won't feel the pressure like some of the old guard as there is nothing like the confidence of youth, if ESR, Saka and Martinelli can keep scoring along with lacca remembering that he is a striker.

And that's why I argued whoever went after Wenger had an almost impossible job. That 'losing' culture built up over a decade. Start the season well, collapse as soon as the title was mentioned, then have a late rally to finish 4th and celebrate wildly. Spurs are seeing it now - they've had Conte and Mourinho who have won everything in the game, but until the board back a mass clear out of all the bottlejobs, they'll always come up short (let's hope they always remain shit eh!)

I'll never forget the joy of the last minute winner at home to Leicester in the season they won the league before a total capitulation that saw us out of the race a few weeks later......whilst Leicester of all people kicked on. That was the season we could and should have won the league, when all of the other top clubs had changed their managers and were rebuilding. We stuck with the fucking old has been and celebrated eventually finishing above Spurs on the last day. A loser, second best culture when the title should have been the ambition. Mustafi, Ozil, Bellerin, Giroud and numerous other c.unts that disappeared when the heat got turned up.

Its taken 15 months of Dick, and just over 2 years of Arteta to finally try and rid all those fucking losers out of the club and take the last bit of "second will do won't it" out of the club and vastly over rewarding mediocrity. Lets hope the hungry new breed generation coupled with some new signings like Ramsdale, Tommy, White and others still to join will rid us of that bottlejob/loser mentality once and for all

[GoonerMuzz]

SteveO I agree with both your last posts with one exception, for me even IF we finish 5th we ARE further on than under Emery. Emery inherited all of Wengers shite and barely offloaded any, now I'm not saying that was of his doing at all, Club politics and the people at the top prevented Emery getting the players he needed/wanted.

Arteta on the other hand has managed to get rid of the vast majority either sold, cancelled contracts or what are effectively permanent loans in the offing. So the overall squad and balance sheet is in a better position than it was under Emery. We are, with the exception of the enigma that is the immovable Clive, better off if a bit threadbare.

I'm am still far from convinced that Arteta can take us any further than 4th and I actually think where we are now is the point an experienced Manager should be brought in to take us forward however by all accounts I have read most of the young players seem to really trust Arteta and believe he is a good coach so personally im trying to temper how I feel with what the team might actually need and maybe it is Arteta that is required even if we cant see it or understand it

[DB10GOONER]

For me it's about expectations. If the club are charging top prices for ST and match tickets then the fans have a right to expect the club to compete at the top for trophies. If however the club are happy enough to call finishing 4th a success then OK that's fine but reduce the ticket prices accordingly. They can't have it both ways.

[SteveO 35]

SteveO I agree with both your last posts with one exception, for me even IF we finish 5th we ARE further on than under Emery. Emery inherited all of Wengers shite and barely offloaded any, now I'm not saying that was of his doing at all, Club politics and the people at the top prevented Emery getting the players he needed/wanted.

Arteta on the other hand has managed to get rid of the vast majority either sold, cancelled contracts or what are effectively permanent loans in the offing. So the overall squad and balance sheet is in a better position than it was under Emery. We are, with the exception of the enigma that is the immovable Clive, better off if a bit threadbare.

I'm am still far from convinced that Arteta can take us any further than 4th and I actually think where we are now is the point an experienced Manager should be brought in to take us forward however by all accounts I have read most of the young players seem to really trust Arteta and believe he is a good coach so personally im trying to temper how I feel with what the team might actually need and maybe it is Arteta that is required even if we cant see it or understand it

Whoever took over from Wenger needed a good 2 years plus mate. If you look at the players that retired or were sold under Emery the list is actually bigger than you'd imagine - Cazorla, Mertesacker, Wilshere, Perez, Joel Campbell, Cech, Ramsey, Welbeck, Ospina, Iwobi, Jenkinson, Koscielny, Montreal. That doesn't include clingers on that went on loan to be sold like Mkhitaryan.

Now I'm not suggesting Emery deserves credit for players retiring.....but what I'm saying is look at that fucking list he inherited, the wages that were drained by the club...and ask yourself if then spending 40m plus 20m of a down payment on Pepe over 3 windows was ever going to be enough to compete

Whether he ever would have got us top 4 we will never know. All I do know is that he inherited FAR WORSE than Arteta did - a Dad's army list of walking wounded, a decade of losing and a wage bill to shame every club apart from Chavski, United and City. Wenger's last season team had double the wage bill of Spurs. That fucking senile old prick that still gets his cock sucked by our window lickers and the popular press, would have destroyed this club if he'd been given the chance

If Arteta had taken the job directly after Wanker would he have fared better after 16 months? I doubt it. Dick was the start of the hope for me - c.unts like most of those above gone and Saka and Martinelli blooded and the start of something new. I truly believe Arteta inherited a better base, but fair play he added to it in the Summer and if he does so again and gets us 4th....like I say, credit will be due and he will deserve a new deal

The fact is that it has taken this long and probably the Summer - 3 whole years to even begin to rid us of the shadow that prick left behind

[OneBardGooner]

For me it's about expectations. If the club are charging top prices for ST and match tickets then the fans have a right to expect the club to compete at the top for trophies. If however the club are happy enough to call finishing 4th a success then OK that's fine but reduce the ticket prices accordingly. They can't have it both ways.

Oh! But They Can and they Will.

[SteveO 35]

For me it's about expectations. If the club are charging top prices for ST and match tickets then the fans have a right to expect the club to compete at the top for trophies. If however the club are happy enough to call finishing 4th a success then OK that's fine but reduce the ticket prices accordingly. They can't have it both ways.

Oh! But They Can and they Will.

And why shouldn't they? In any other business where demand outweighs supply, you put the prices up. In my own business and thousands around the world.....if your diary is full of bookings then charge more and see what happens (particularly at a time when 7% inflation is around). You pay your money, you take your choice and if 60,000 paying punters are willing to pay £62+, then jack it up to £70+ and see what happens. If people stop going you'll know you've gone too far......until then and until everyone fills the ground, the prices will continue to rise. Precisely why I go to the League Cup games, the odd category 'C' 3pm kick off on a Saturday and away games. Paying £90 for a Cat A that will undoubtedly be on the box and the date will move after I've bought the ticket - no thanks, the club can go f+++ itself. But if I was the owner and it still filled out the ground I'd charge £100