Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

[DB10GOONER]

Three more years on the cusp

'Champions of cusping, you'll never sing that!'

[wilson2.0]

New deal to 2027

Ok Wilson, time to go out on a limb. By the end of the the new contract he’ll have been at the helm for 7 1/2 seasons. Currently, despite about 800k spent and full backing from the owners for his “process”, he’s won one trophy, in his first half season way back in 2020.

What trophy haul are we entitled to expect in the next three seasons to consider Arteta a success?

Arteta will walk in 2027 if we haven't won the PL or CL as he will worry about his career being classed as a 'nearly man'. A misconception is Arteta is just happy to finish in the top 4 to keep the Kroenke's happy and pick up his cheque - this is false. Arteta is very ambitious and wants to win honours.

So I wouldn't worry about sacking him, as he is more likely to walk if we continue to follow a close 2nd.

Lets also remember we were not a trophy winning machine propr to Arteta. We went through decades of malaise with Wenger's passive approach and outdated tactics. Split ownership which caused a lack of investment in the team. This chronic underinvestment was horrible, we sold player and replaced them with discount versions. Ironically Arteta was one of these discount players when he was brought in the year we sold Nasri and Fabregas.

What's Arteta's crime again? That he hasn't taken banter Arsenal to the peaks of football which we haven't been since 2004. 15 years separated 2004 and 2019 when he got the job. What should we have won by know with Klopp and Pep was domestic rivals?

Ive always said, if Arteta left us, he would win the league of a top 5 league or the CL before we do.

Lots of straw men in that response.

If he wins nothing between now and May 2027, then “nearly man” would be flattering him. I’d say “failure”.

With respect, you don’t need to educate many on here about the dismal 10+ years of mismanagement by Wenger, but that can’t be used as a yardstick with which to judge Arteta. Personally, I’d have sacked Wenger at the end of 2007/08 and mates of mine thought I was mad. They didn’t think so 10 years later. So, I’m entitled to judge Arteta by the standards I expect from a manager of a top club, not by previous washed up failures. Emery inherited the worst of the shitty end of the stick and Arteta had been given plenty of time and money to erase the mess left by Wenger. The last two seasons, at least, has been Arteta’s side and his philosophy. No excuses.

No one is accusing Arteta of any “crime”, so don’t please don’t exaggerate the observations and concerns of other supporters. We are assessing, quite fairly in my opinion, the time and money he has been afforded and the time has come to see some tangible results.

Forget the nonsense about Pep and Klopp….take a look at what Klopp had achieved after his first 4-5 years at Liverpool and what he achieved after that, despite a worse inheritance than Arteta received. As I’ve said before, let’s not forget that Ten Haag (who I don’t rate) has won two trophies in two years with a pile of crap, despite Pep, Klopp and indeed Arteta being around. You’re manufacturing excuses where none exist and it’s attitudes like yours that kept Wenger at the helm for so long. No big club in any league would accept 5 years with one trophy won in the first half season and they certainly wouldn’t accept it after 7 1/2 years. We claim to be a big club, but seriously lack the ambition to act like one.

By the way, you dodged the question. What, in your opinion, does Arteta need to win by May 2027 for his tenure to be deemed a success?

Its not about Arteta its about Arsenals chances of winning the league. Hypothetical - if there was a manager who had won nothing 10 seasons in a row, and it was proven that the next year the chances of him were winning the league were 50% compared to a new manager whose chances were 30%, it would go into season 11 with the same manager.

So ill say it again, its not about Arteta. Its about Arsenal. If there comes a time I think our chances of winning the PL or CL are higher with a new and attainable manager, then will be all for it. But im totally unmoved by some of the suggestions of potential replacements.

Even Simeone who I formerly thought was needed. I dont think Diego gets us the 90 points a season needed. I reckon if we had Simeone there is a good chance we score less, concede more, and attain less points - all this lowers the probability of winning

[Retro Gunner]

New deal to 2027

Ok Wilson, time to go out on a limb. By the end of the the new contract he’ll have been at the helm for 7 1/2 seasons. Currently, despite about 800k spent and full backing from the owners for his “process”, he’s won one trophy, in his first half season way back in 2020.

What trophy haul are we entitled to expect in the next three seasons to consider Arteta a success?

Arteta will walk in 2027 if we haven't won the PL or CL as he will worry about his career being classed as a 'nearly man'. A misconception is Arteta is just happy to finish in the top 4 to keep the Kroenke's happy and pick up his cheque - this is false. Arteta is very ambitious and wants to win honours.

So I wouldn't worry about sacking him, as he is more likely to walk if we continue to follow a close 2nd.

Lets also remember we were not a trophy winning machine propr to Arteta. We went through decades of malaise with Wenger's passive approach and outdated tactics. Split ownership which caused a lack of investment in the team. This chronic underinvestment was horrible, we sold player and replaced them with discount versions. Ironically Arteta was one of these discount players when he was brought in the year we sold Nasri and Fabregas.

What's Arteta's crime again? That he hasn't taken banter Arsenal to the peaks of football which we haven't been since 2004. 15 years separated 2004 and 2019 when he got the job. What should we have won by know with Klopp and Pep was domestic rivals?

Ive always said, if Arteta left us, he would win the league of a top 5 league or the CL before we do.

Lots of straw men in that response.

If he wins nothing between now and May 2027, then “nearly man” would be flattering him. I’d say “failure”.

With respect, you don’t need to educate many on here about the dismal 10+ years of mismanagement by Wenger, but that can’t be used as a yardstick with which to judge Arteta. Personally, I’d have sacked Wenger at the end of 2007/08 and mates of mine thought I was mad. They didn’t think so 10 years later. So, I’m entitled to judge Arteta by the standards I expect from a manager of a top club, not by previous washed up failures. Emery inherited the worst of the shitty end of the stick and Arteta had been given plenty of time and money to erase the mess left by Wenger. The last two seasons, at least, has been Arteta’s side and his philosophy. No excuses.

No one is accusing Arteta of any “crime”, so don’t please don’t exaggerate the observations and concerns of other supporters. We are assessing, quite fairly in my opinion, the time and money he has been afforded and the time has come to see some tangible results.

Forget the nonsense about Pep and Klopp….take a look at what Klopp had achieved after his first 4-5 years at Liverpool and what he achieved after that, despite a worse inheritance than Arteta received. As I’ve said before, let’s not forget that Ten Haag (who I don’t rate) has won two trophies in two years with a pile of crap, despite Pep, Klopp and indeed Arteta being around. You’re manufacturing excuses where none exist and it’s attitudes like yours that kept Wenger at the helm for so long. No big club in any league would accept 5 years with one trophy won in the first half season and they certainly wouldn’t accept it after 7 1/2 years. We claim to be a big club, but seriously lack the ambition to act like one.

By the way, you dodged the question. What, in your opinion, does Arteta need to win by May 2027 for his tenure to be deemed a success?

Good response Retro. As usual with Cusp2.0 it's all bullshit and half truths and twisting of facts. I'd add to your response that the bit I've highlighted in red is horseshit. I'm no wenger defender by any means but Cusp2.0 ignores the fact that a badly failing past it Wenger still managed to win 3 FA Cups in the last 4 years of his failing final decade. That's two more than Arteta managed in fives years and without spending the over 700 million that Arteta has spent. And Wenger is rightly deemed a failure during those years, but supposedly Arteta has been a huge success?

And that is decade singular not decades plural by the way.

Cusp2.0 is trying to give the impression that Arteta has saved Arsenal from being a nothing club, the same way the Wenger AKB used to try that line on.

That’s an excellent point DB and puts another big hole in Wilson’s argument. I’ve no doubt that if Arteta had bagged a couple of domestic cups, even if it were two League Cups since that initial FA Cup win, then there’d be more leeway from those of us with doubts.

That doesn’t alter the fact that top two in the PL and at least a semi final in the CL needs to be the minimum from him now.

[Midz]

Mikel Arteta.

[OneBardGooner]

Official now on the dot come and socials - I still reckon this has come out before it was meant to.

Dunno Rodders me ole mucker.... It's announced a few days before theNLD (Away) with our team depleted of 2 - 3 of its first team players... If we get a result: a Win (or a Draw under the circumstances) it will be viewed as Good News, if we don't get anything then they can use the absence of those same players as an excuse.

The Arsenal PR Machine is in Full Effect.

[wibble]

I wouldn't bestow any praise on Ten Bob at ManU. They have benefitted from something like 19 home cup draws out of 20 over the last few years and most have been against much poorer teams.
Let's be honest, Man U have prioritised the cups over the last few years as they know that they are so far off the pace for the title, and it's the same this season. But a lot of teams still shit their pants at the 'Theatre of Nightmares' and don't even put up a fight.

It's hard to judge the last few years because of City being so pimped, it's the same if you look at 2003/4 for 8 years, the Chavs won the league or finished 2nd every year after Abramovich came in and did the same thing City have done. It makes a massive difference to those clubs being run 'normally', so in my opinion it's wrong to criticise anyone for finishing behind a team that has a bench full of 50-100m players every week!

Arteta has now been backed fully in the transfer market and he's got rid of the dead wood. Anything lower then 2nd is a failure and we really ought to be in the semis/Final for some cups. I don't think he'll last to his last year if we don't win anything in the next season and a half/2 seasons. Because at that point (or sooner) Saliba, Saka and probably one or two others will be off to Madrid to win things.

Arteta has managed to make watching Arsenal enjoyable again (on the whole) and we are competitive, something most of us have moaned about NOT being for a long time. I wish he had bought a striker because there would be less to moan at but by not doing so he is now walking with a target on his back and he's there to be shot at. I'm glad he's signed a contract, there's no-one else available who I would rather see managing us but it's time to take the extra step and win things because this is a seriously good team we have.....it just needs a couple more signings to get us there maybe because the reality is, we are a couple of injuries away from being in trouble......particularly Ode and Saka......or Rice and Ode (Merino would have really lessened the blow but........)

I’d agree with this and happy he has signed a new contract. Needs a cup win and much better performances in Europe going forward

[Retro Gunner]

New deal to 2027

Ok Wilson, time to go out on a limb. By the end of the the new contract he’ll have been at the helm for 7 1/2 seasons. Currently, despite about 800k spent and full backing from the owners for his “process”, he’s won one trophy, in his first half season way back in 2020.

What trophy haul are we entitled to expect in the next three seasons to consider Arteta a success?

Arteta will walk in 2027 if we haven't won the PL or CL as he will worry about his career being classed as a 'nearly man'. A misconception is Arteta is just happy to finish in the top 4 to keep the Kroenke's happy and pick up his cheque - this is false. Arteta is very ambitious and wants to win honours.

So I wouldn't worry about sacking him, as he is more likely to walk if we continue to follow a close 2nd.

Lets also remember we were not a trophy winning machine propr to Arteta. We went through decades of malaise with Wenger's passive approach and outdated tactics. Split ownership which caused a lack of investment in the team. This chronic underinvestment was horrible, we sold player and replaced them with discount versions. Ironically Arteta was one of these discount players when he was brought in the year we sold Nasri and Fabregas.

What's Arteta's crime again? That he hasn't taken banter Arsenal to the peaks of football which we haven't been since 2004. 15 years separated 2004 and 2019 when he got the job. What should we have won by know with Klopp and Pep was domestic rivals?

Ive always said, if Arteta left us, he would win the league of a top 5 league or the CL before we do.

Lots of straw men in that response.

If he wins nothing between now and May 2027, then “nearly man” would be flattering him. I’d say “failure”.

With respect, you don’t need to educate many on here about the dismal 10+ years of mismanagement by Wenger, but that can’t be used as a yardstick with which to judge Arteta. Personally, I’d have sacked Wenger at the end of 2007/08 and mates of mine thought I was mad. They didn’t think so 10 years later. So, I’m entitled to judge Arteta by the standards I expect from a manager of a top club, not by previous washed up failures. Emery inherited the worst of the shitty end of the stick and Arteta had been given plenty of time and money to erase the mess left by Wenger. The last two seasons, at least, has been Arteta’s side and his philosophy. No excuses.

No one is accusing Arteta of any “crime”, so don’t please don’t exaggerate the observations and concerns of other supporters. We are assessing, quite fairly in my opinion, the time and money he has been afforded and the time has come to see some tangible results.

Forget the nonsense about Pep and Klopp….take a look at what Klopp had achieved after his first 4-5 years at Liverpool and what he achieved after that, despite a worse inheritance than Arteta received. As I’ve said before, let’s not forget that Ten Haag (who I don’t rate) has won two trophies in two years with a pile of crap, despite Pep, Klopp and indeed Arteta being around. You’re manufacturing excuses where none exist and it’s attitudes like yours that kept Wenger at the helm for so long. No big club in any league would accept 5 years with one trophy won in the first half season and they certainly wouldn’t accept it after 7 1/2 years. We claim to be a big club, but seriously lack the ambition to act like one.

By the way, you dodged the question. What, in your opinion, does Arteta need to win by May 2027 for his tenure to be deemed a success?

Its not about Arteta its about Arsenals chances of winning the league. Hypothetical - if there was a manager who had won nothing 10 seasons in a row, and it was proven that the next year the chances of him were winning the league were 50% compared to a new manager whose chances were 30%, it would go into season 11 with the same manager.

So ill say it again, its not about Arteta. Its about Arsenal. If there comes a time I think our chances of winning the PL or CL are higher with a new and attainable manager, then will be all for it. But im totally unmoved by some of the suggestions of potential replacements.

Even Simeone who I formerly thought was needed. I dont think Diego gets us the 90 points a season needed. I reckon if we had Simeone there is a good chance we score less, concede more, and attain less points - all this lowers the probability of winning

Well, as impossible as it is to apply a percentage chance of a manager winning the league in the manner you’ve suggested (Ranieri at Leicester anyone?), I’ll answer your question. If the manager of a club that claims to be a top club in the hunt for prizes had won fuck all in 10 years, despite being given generous financial support and had his “process” patiently tolerated, then I’d have him out in a flash. Your application of percentages (what’s the formula?) is ridiculous and a change would be required regardless of a 30% or 80%. You condemned the last 10 years of Wenger but posit the very argument that kept him in place.

We heard it a million times in those last few years under the Old Fraud, “who else is available?”….well, there was Klopp for sure and possibly Pep, but we stuck with a sclerotic, dying set up. I’m not putting Arteta in that situation yet, but he needs to deliver tangible results quickly.

Back to your percentages, you clearly rate Arteta very highly and don’t think there’s a better alternative out there, but what percentage would you have applied to a complete novice bringing success back in 2019….20% at the most I expect. As for who’s out there, it will be interesting to see what you say if Slot’s Liverpool outperform us this season. New manager, ageing squad, not much spent and finished below us in the last two seasons. Hmmmm.

[Retro Gunner]

I wouldn't bestow any praise on Ten Bob at ManU. They have benefitted from something like 19 home cup draws out of 20 over the last few years and most have been against much poorer teams.
Let's be honest, Man U have prioritised the cups over the last few years as they know that they are so far off the pace for the title, and it's the same this season. But a lot of teams still shit their pants at the 'Theatre of Nightmares' and don't even put up a fight.

It's hard to judge the last few years because of City being so pimped, it's the same if you look at 2003/4 for 8 years, the Chavs won the league or finished 2nd every year after Abramovich came in and did the same thing City have done. It makes a massive difference to those clubs being run 'normally', so in my opinion it's wrong to criticise anyone for finishing behind a team that has a bench full of 50-100m players every week!

Arteta has now been backed fully in the transfer market and he's got rid of the dead wood. Anything lower then 2nd is a failure and we really ought to be in the semis/Final for some cups. I don't think he'll last to his last year if we don't win anything in the next season and a half/2 seasons. Because at that point (or sooner) Saliba, Saka and probably one or two others will be off to Madrid to win things.

Arteta has managed to make watching Arsenal enjoyable again (on the whole) and we are competitive, something most of us have moaned about NOT being for a long time. I wish he had bought a striker because there would be less to moan at but by not doing so he is now walking with a target on his back and he's there to be shot at. I'm glad he's signed a contract, there's no-one else available who I would rather see managing us but it's time to take the extra step and win things because this is a seriously good team we have.....it just needs a couple more signings to get us there maybe because the reality is, we are a couple of injuries away from being in trouble......particularly Ode and Saka......or Rice and Ode (Merino would have really lessened the blow but........)

Good post TeeCee and a very balanced appraisal of where we are. All I’d say on the undeniable pimped City point is that most on here would accept constantly running them close in the league and also going out to them in the cups, but if we don’t meet them in the cups or the CL, then our performances in those competitions needs to be semi finals/finals and some wins.

I thought when Abramovich arrived at Chelsea and sadly changed football forever, that they’d win the league every season for the foreseeable future. Roll up Alex Ferguson, who unlike Wenger, didn’t look for excuses and went toe to toe with them, winning leagues and cups. Similarly Klopp at Liverpool up against Pep. Won the CL, the league and domestic cups, without crying about unfairness.

It’s right when you say that Arteta now has a target on his back with the failure to buy a striker. It’s one hell of a roll of the dice to believe that Havertz and Jesus are sufficient up front…it’s actually lunacy in my opinion. I’d say that we have a good team, but not “seriously good”. I’m happy with the defence and the wide players, but we’re woefully short in the engine room and up front. It was unlucky with the Merino injury, but I’ve no idea how good he is and as it stands all we have that’s anything like a quality player in centre mid is Rice, although for me he’s very good but far from world class.
Up front is a disaster and I’ve said before that failing to add a striker will be the rock that Arteta founders on.

Sadly true what you say about Saka and especially Saliba. If we don’t win anything this season then it wouldn’t surprise me to see Saliba gone next summer.

[augie]

New deal to 2027

Ok Wilson, time to go out on a limb. By the end of the the new contract he’ll have been at the helm for 7 1/2 seasons. Currently, despite about 800k spent and full backing from the owners for his “process”, he’s won one trophy, in his first half season way back in 2020.

What trophy haul are we entitled to expect in the next three seasons to consider Arteta a success?

Arteta will walk in 2027 if we haven't won the PL or CL as he will worry about his career being classed as a 'nearly man'. A misconception is Arteta is just happy to finish in the top 4 to keep the Kroenke's happy and pick up his cheque - this is false. Arteta is very ambitious and wants to win honours.

So I wouldn't worry about sacking him, as he is more likely to walk if we continue to follow a close 2nd.

Lets also remember we were not a trophy winning machine propr to Arteta. We went through decades of malaise with Wenger's passive approach and outdated tactics. Split ownership which caused a lack of investment in the team. This chronic underinvestment was horrible, we sold player and replaced them with discount versions. Ironically Arteta was one of these discount players when he was brought in the year we sold Nasri and Fabregas.

What's Arteta's crime again? That he hasn't taken banter Arsenal to the peaks of football which we haven't been since 2004. 15 years separated 2004 and 2019 when he got the job. What should we have won by know with Klopp and Pep was domestic rivals?

Ive always said, if Arteta left us, he would win the league of a top 5 league or the CL before we do.

Two quick points -

1. wenger was horrendous at tactics - so is the cone boy. His in game management is every bit as bad as the french fraud was, and it is beyond shocking that he has spent almost 800m but still focuses on using a core 15-16 outfield players, which in turn leads to burnout and poor performances

2. His record in domestic cups is a disgrace and totally unacceptable - shit teams like leicester and a seriously declining manu have won cups since he has. In recent seasons we have been knocked out of cups by brighton, forest and the shammers ffs, so while you can put up a defence for not finishing ahead of citeeh cos of their wealth, nothing can defend his disgraceful domestic cup record, and his record in europe is far from positive too

[Nick Nack]

New deal to 2027

Ok Wilson, time to go out on a limb. By the end of the the new contract he’ll have been at the helm for 7 1/2 seasons. Currently, despite about 800k spent and full backing from the owners for his “process”, he’s won one trophy, in his first half season way back in 2020.

What trophy haul are we entitled to expect in the next three seasons to consider Arteta a success?

Arteta will walk in 2027 if we haven't won the PL or CL as he will worry about his career being classed as a 'nearly man'. A misconception is Arteta is just happy to finish in the top 4 to keep the Kroenke's happy and pick up his cheque - this is false. Arteta is very ambitious and wants to win honours.

So I wouldn't worry about sacking him, as he is more likely to walk if we continue to follow a close 2nd.

Lets also remember we were not a trophy winning machine propr to Arteta. We went through decades of malaise with Wenger's passive approach and outdated tactics. Split ownership which caused a lack of investment in the team. This chronic underinvestment was horrible, we sold player and replaced them with discount versions. Ironically Arteta was one of these discount players when he was brought in the year we sold Nasri and Fabregas.

What's Arteta's crime again? That he hasn't taken banter Arsenal to the peaks of football which we haven't been since 2004. 15 years separated 2004 and 2019 when he got the job. What should we have won by know with Klopp and Pep was domestic rivals?

Ive always said, if Arteta left us, he would win the league of a top 5 league or the CL before we do.

Two quick points -

1. wenger was horrendous at tactics - so is the cone boy. His in game management is every bit as bad as the french fraud was, and it is beyond shocking that he has spent almost 800m but still focuses on using a core 15-16 outfield players, which in turn leads to burnout and poor performances

2. His record in domestic cups is a disgrace and totally unacceptable - shit teams like leicester and a seriously declining manu have won cups since he has. In recent seasons we have been knocked out of cups by brighton, forest and the shammers ffs, so while you can put up a defence for not finishing ahead of citeeh cos of their wealth, nothing can defend his disgraceful domestic cup record, and his record in europe is far from positive too

Diet Pep has inherited other characteristics of the old fraud. And not the good ones.

I think Diet Pep is a vindictive bastard, just like his master. One word out of turn or challenge him and he has proven that with players being bombed out of the club.

He was also a player during Wengers worst years when he became a nasty, narcissistic c.unt who knew better than everybody. Diet Pep, is starting to show that same trait - every man and his dog says we need a central striker, but Tets knows best ....

[DB10GOONER]

New deal to 2027

Ok Wilson, time to go out on a limb. By the end of the the new contract he’ll have been at the helm for 7 1/2 seasons. Currently, despite about 800k spent and full backing from the owners for his “process”, he’s won one trophy, in his first half season way back in 2020.

What trophy haul are we entitled to expect in the next three seasons to consider Arteta a success?

Arteta will walk in 2027 if we haven't won the PL or CL as he will worry about his career being classed as a 'nearly man'. A misconception is Arteta is just happy to finish in the top 4 to keep the Kroenke's happy and pick up his cheque - this is false. Arteta is very ambitious and wants to win honours.

So I wouldn't worry about sacking him, as he is more likely to walk if we continue to follow a close 2nd.

Lets also remember we were not a trophy winning machine propr to Arteta. We went through decades of malaise with Wenger's passive approach and outdated tactics. Split ownership which caused a lack of investment in the team. This chronic underinvestment was horrible, we sold player and replaced them with discount versions. Ironically Arteta was one of these discount players when he was brought in the year we sold Nasri and Fabregas.

What's Arteta's crime again? That he hasn't taken banter Arsenal to the peaks of football which we haven't been since 2004. 15 years separated 2004 and 2019 when he got the job. What should we have won by know with Klopp and Pep was domestic rivals?

Ive always said, if Arteta left us, he would win the league of a top 5 league or the CL before we do.

Two quick points -

1. wenger was horrendous at tactics - so is the cone boy. His in game management is every bit as bad as the french fraud was, and it is beyond shocking that he has spent almost 800m but still focuses on using a core 15-16 outfield players, which in turn leads to burnout and poor performances

2. His record in domestic cups is a disgrace and totally unacceptable - shit teams like leicester and a seriously declining manu have won cups since he has. In recent seasons we have been knocked out of cups by brighton, forest and the shammers ffs, so while you can put up a defence for not finishing ahead of citeeh cos of their wealth, nothing can defend his disgraceful domestic cup record, and his record in europe is far from positive too

Diet Pep has inherited other characteristics of the old fraud. And not the good ones.

I think Diet Pep is a vindictive bastard, just like his master. One word out of turn or challenge him and he has proven that with players being bombed out of the club.

He was also a player during Wengers worst years when he became a nasty, narcissistic c.unt who knew better than everybody. Diet Pep, is starting to show that same trait - every man and his dog says we need a central striker, but Tets knows best ....

Two very good posts augie and Nick Nack. And unfortunately I think you are both right. I believe that Arteta's ego, much like Wenger's did, will prevent him admitting when he gets it wrong and then doing what's required to make it right. Which is a real shame. We have the guts of a really good team, but it needs a couple of additions he either can't see or won't see. And how many times during certain periods did we see that with Wenger?

[the playing mantis]

New deal to 2027

Ok Wilson, time to go out on a limb. By the end of the the new contract he’ll have been at the helm for 7 1/2 seasons. Currently, despite about 800k spent and full backing from the owners for his “process”, he’s won one trophy, in his first half season way back in 2020.

What trophy haul are we entitled to expect in the next three seasons to consider Arteta a success?

Arteta will walk in 2027 if we haven't won the PL or CL as he will worry about his career being classed as a 'nearly man'. A misconception is Arteta is just happy to finish in the top 4 to keep the Kroenke's happy and pick up his cheque - this is false. Arteta is very ambitious and wants to win honours.

So I wouldn't worry about sacking him, as he is more likely to walk if we continue to follow a close 2nd.

Lets also remember we were not a trophy winning machine propr to Arteta. We went through decades of malaise with Wenger's passive approach and outdated tactics. Split ownership which caused a lack of investment in the team. This chronic underinvestment was horrible, we sold player and replaced them with discount versions. Ironically Arteta was one of these discount players when he was brought in the year we sold Nasri and Fabregas.

What's Arteta's crime again? That he hasn't taken banter Arsenal to the peaks of football which we haven't been since 2004. 15 years separated 2004 and 2019 when he got the job. What should we have won by know with Klopp and Pep was domestic rivals?

Ive always said, if Arteta left us, he would win the league of a top 5 league or the CL before we do.

Lots of straw men in that response.

If he wins nothing between now and May 2027, then “nearly man” would be flattering him. I’d say “failure”.

With respect, you don’t need to educate many on here about the dismal 10+ years of mismanagement by Wenger, but that can’t be used as a yardstick with which to judge Arteta. Personally, I’d have sacked Wenger at the end of 2007/08 and mates of mine thought I was mad. They didn’t think so 10 years later. So, I’m entitled to judge Arteta by the standards I expect from a manager of a top club, not by previous washed up failures. Emery inherited the worst of the shitty end of the stick and Arteta had been given plenty of time and money to erase the mess left by Wenger. The last two seasons, at least, has been Arteta’s side and his philosophy. No excuses.

No one is accusing Arteta of any “crime”, so don’t please don’t exaggerate the observations and concerns of other supporters. We are assessing, quite fairly in my opinion, the time and money he has been afforded and the time has come to see some tangible results.

Forget the nonsense about Pep and Klopp….take a look at what Klopp had achieved after his first 4-5 years at Liverpool and what he achieved after that, despite a worse inheritance than Arteta received. As I’ve said before, let’s not forget that Ten Haag (who I don’t rate) has won two trophies in two years with a pile of crap, despite Pep, Klopp and indeed Arteta being around. You’re manufacturing excuses where none exist and it’s attitudes like yours that kept Wenger at the helm for so long. No big club in any league would accept 5 years with one trophy won in the first half season and they certainly wouldn’t accept it after 7 1/2 years. We claim to be a big club, but seriously lack the ambition to act like one.

By the way, you dodged the question. What, in your opinion, does Arteta need to win by May 2027 for his tenure to be deemed a success?

Its not about Arteta its about Arsenals chances of winning the league. Hypothetical - if there was a manager who had won nothing 10 seasons in a row, and it was proven that the next year the chances of him were winning the league were 50% compared to a new manager whose chances were 30%, it would go into season 11 with the same manager.

So ill say it again, its not about Arteta. Its about Arsenal. If there comes a time I think our chances of winning the PL or CL are higher with a new and attainable manager, then will be all for it. But im totally unmoved by some of the suggestions of potential replacements.

Even Simeone who I formerly thought was needed. I dont think Diego gets us the 90 points a season needed. I reckon if we had Simeone there is a good chance we score less, concede more, and attain less points - all this lowers the probability of winning

Have you considered de zerbi?

[rodders999]

Think we should have waited a few weeks to see if Sean Dyche became available

[DB10GOONER]

Think we should have waited a few weeks to see if Sean Dyche became available

SteveO just ejaculated at the very thought of the bald ginger cum gargler in our dugout. And yes dugout is a euphemism.

And yes, yes, Dyche will most def be available in a few weeks.

[DB10GOONER]

Ok Wilson, time to go out on a limb. By the end of the the new contract he’ll have been at the helm for 7 1/2 seasons. Currently, despite about 800k spent and full backing from the owners for his “process”, he’s won one trophy, in his first half season way back in 2020.

What trophy haul are we entitled to expect in the next three seasons to consider Arteta a success?

Arteta will walk in 2027 if we haven't won the PL or CL as he will worry about his career being classed as a 'nearly man'. A misconception is Arteta is just happy to finish in the top 4 to keep the Kroenke's happy and pick up his cheque - this is false. Arteta is very ambitious and wants to win honours.

So I wouldn't worry about sacking him, as he is more likely to walk if we continue to follow a close 2nd.

Lets also remember we were not a trophy winning machine propr to Arteta. We went through decades of malaise with Wenger's passive approach and outdated tactics. Split ownership which caused a lack of investment in the team. This chronic underinvestment was horrible, we sold player and replaced them with discount versions. Ironically Arteta was one of these discount players when he was brought in the year we sold Nasri and Fabregas.

What's Arteta's crime again? That he hasn't taken banter Arsenal to the peaks of football which we haven't been since 2004. 15 years separated 2004 and 2019 when he got the job. What should we have won by know with Klopp and Pep was domestic rivals?

Ive always said, if Arteta left us, he would win the league of a top 5 league or the CL before we do.

Lots of straw men in that response.

If he wins nothing between now and May 2027, then “nearly man” would be flattering him. I’d say “failure”.

With respect, you don’t need to educate many on here about the dismal 10+ years of mismanagement by Wenger, but that can’t be used as a yardstick with which to judge Arteta. Personally, I’d have sacked Wenger at the end of 2007/08 and mates of mine thought I was mad. They didn’t think so 10 years later. So, I’m entitled to judge Arteta by the standards I expect from a manager of a top club, not by previous washed up failures. Emery inherited the worst of the shitty end of the stick and Arteta had been given plenty of time and money to erase the mess left by Wenger. The last two seasons, at least, has been Arteta’s side and his philosophy. No excuses.

No one is accusing Arteta of any “crime”, so don’t please don’t exaggerate the observations and concerns of other supporters. We are assessing, quite fairly in my opinion, the time and money he has been afforded and the time has come to see some tangible results.

Forget the nonsense about Pep and Klopp….take a look at what Klopp had achieved after his first 4-5 years at Liverpool and what he achieved after that, despite a worse inheritance than Arteta received. As I’ve said before, let’s not forget that Ten Haag (who I don’t rate) has won two trophies in two years with a pile of crap, despite Pep, Klopp and indeed Arteta being around. You’re manufacturing excuses where none exist and it’s attitudes like yours that kept Wenger at the helm for so long. No big club in any league would accept 5 years with one trophy won in the first half season and they certainly wouldn’t accept it after 7 1/2 years. We claim to be a big club, but seriously lack the ambition to act like one.

By the way, you dodged the question. What, in your opinion, does Arteta need to win by May 2027 for his tenure to be deemed a success?

Its not about Arteta its about Arsenals chances of winning the league. Hypothetical - if there was a manager who had won nothing 10 seasons in a row, and it was proven that the next year the chances of him were winning the league were 50% compared to a new manager whose chances were 30%, it would go into season 11 with the same manager.

So ill say it again, its not about Arteta. Its about Arsenal. If there comes a time I think our chances of winning the PL or CL are higher with a new and attainable manager, then will be all for it. But im totally unmoved by some of the suggestions of potential replacements.

Even Simeone who I formerly thought was needed. I dont think Diego gets us the 90 points a season needed. I reckon if we had Simeone there is a good chance we score less, concede more, and attain less points - all this lowers the probability of winning

Have you considered de zerbi?

De Zerbi woah-oh-oh
He'll manage Arsenal
The Cusp is worth fuck all
De Zerbi woah-oh-oh


Sing it you cùnts!