Worst run "big" plge club

[OneBardGooner]

[augie]

United showing real ambition to be fair by announcing plans for a new stadium.

I personally think we are the worst run “big club “ because nobody in charge wants to win anything. It is all about a top 4 league finish - and now a top 8 CL group stage finish

Very hard to disagree with that - even going back decades we as a club lacked the ambition of a proper big club. Yes we could talk the talk, and yes we could stick our chests out and talk shite about bank of england club, but when it came down to it we bought cheap and paid cheap too, so winning of trophies was never a high enough priority for ownership. David Dein was the one who changed that mindset, and then in the GG and early Wenger era we allowed ourselves to believe that we were now a proper big club, but the reality is that our owners and board would be pissed at the loss of revenue if we were excluded from a euopean super league, more than the loss of prestige

Overall though I really dont care who is the worst run big club - what boils my piss is that at a time when so many "big clubs" are being badly run, we as a club are not taking advantage cos we lack the ambition and know how in key positions (manager and boardroom). Again it also boils my piss how some (including sid) can point to how badly these other clubs are being run whilst also praising the cone boy for the job he is doing, without even once wondering if he is doing well cos they are shit in recent years We have never even hit 90pts in a season under the cone boy, and the victims twice surpassed that when finishing 2nd If anything we as Gooners should be raging that we havent taken advantage of our rivals more than we have, but instead we look for soft excuses to deflect away from our own issues - Sunday was a prime example cos we focused on how far our wall was back and used it as a defence for a shameful draw against a shit manure team Yes the wall was put too far back, BUT raya's positioning was unacceptable, plus our performance was for the most part a disgrace and we need to own that

Reading this braindead shite makes me realise why I stopped posting on here!
We've finished a close 2nd twice, the Kronkes have put their hand in their pocket!
That said I don't think Arteta can take us to the next level, but did give us back respectability!
Augie I think I remember in one of your insane posts that you're involved at "grassroots level" with the FAI!
That would probably explain why you dont have a fucking baldies!

When you dont recognise the points I am making and automatically dismiss them, then it is you that looks braindead not me

1. When as many "big clubs" are being badly run at the same time (as your poll rightly suggests), then doesnt it make sense that it is an easier time for the cone boy to finish second than a few years ago when manure and the chavs were constantly contenders to win the premier league and champions league ? If you acknowledge that, then surely it dilutes the great achievements that the cone boy keeps getting praised for

2. The kroenkes have indeed backed the cone boy more than any manager in our history - I will argue that spending money isnt the ONLY defining factor when it comes to showing ambition. Manure for all their faults, recognised that ten haag was never going to make them a great team again and sacked him despite the fact that he won 2 cups in the last 2 seasons - our cone boy has won nothing since he dismantled the squad he inherited and started spending the £800m, and that should raise flags imo. Recognising when a manager has reached his level (as both of us agree that the cone boy has), and having the guts to make the tough decision to replace him, sends a signal to the players, to the fans, and to the wider football world, that this is a club that wants to win these trophies and being nearly men is not enough for us - that to me is showing ambition, but our board will be too afraid to make that decision and will instead be grateful to the cone boy and will stick with him and the message that sends our players is that we are not ruthless enough to be real winners at the top level

Btw I never suggested I worked for the fai at any stage - I have filled numerous roles within my local club and served as secretary of our local league for two and a half seasons

You served as a secretary of your local league team, for two and half seasons and yet you carry on as you are some kind of total expert and constantly bad mouth it seems anyone with Arsenal Football Club, manager, owner, players and fans.

You always seem to get more enjoyment out of Arsenal losing than winning.

Dick'ead I give my opinions on here the same as everyone else - doesnt make mine any more or any less qualified than anyone else's, and background and experience has zero to do with it. For the record yes I was only secretary of the league for two and a half years (left of my own choice), but I have also held numerous roles within my own club including secretary for over a decade - those positions dont make a person more pf an expert about the game of football and are more about the administration side of the game and has def taught me a lot about rules etc.
My "expert knowledge" (your words not mine) comes from over 50 years as a football supporter and attending games at different levels from schoolboy's, junior football, premier league and international - its been my obsession for more years than I care to remember, but I have to admit that my love for the game (and AFC) isnt as strong in recent years as money and greed takes bigger hold of the game, but I suspect I am far from alone in that

[Limerick Gooner]

So much of this comes down to a definition of "worst run" - and fans and business people often see a big difference between the two.

United are in a mess - the previous and current owners have as good as admitted as much and the much publicised cost cutting measures are an open sign of that. They have spunked hundreds of millions on utter shite, have a stadium that is falling to pieces and their pay offs to failed managers is at joke levels

The Chavs get a lot of stick with their casino strategy, and at the moment they are having a shit time of it but 2 European Cups and numerous league titles and other cups over the past 20 years mean their fans don't moan about it. Yep they chop and change managers and sometimes they get it spectacularly wrong but who cares? I've often said (and this is from someone who has been an FD and MD for many years), football isn't a proper business. Its not my money and I don't care. The Chavs will never recover their owners investments - the Russki didn't and this fella Boehly has no chance either. But here is where football is different - its a billionaire's plaything. They aren't looking at multiples of EBITDA, and ROI calcs - they'll sell it on to the next punter for $2-$5bn, who will be someone even more ludicrously wealthy e.g. Newcastle owners. Its why when we spent £100m+ on Rice, I'm like "yeah, bid deal, so what" - when your owner is worth $11bn its chump change.

We are just a boring boring club to be involved with. We don't have the Chavs casino strategy, but nor are we in dire straits like Man Ure. Our owner is worth a fortune, we won't be going bust, but we won't be winning anything major either

Football is all about timing. You can win titles in weak seasons (Leicester), FA Cups with easy draws and sides turning up drunk to the Final (United last season). You can also win European Cups in an era where you effectively just had to win the Final (Villa, Forest, Scousers). I think we’ve been unfortunate over the last couple of years but that’s football. This season we haven’t been good enough but equally have had a lot of bad luck. Some of our own making (injuries to attacking players) and some not (refs).

The thing that really annoys me though is that football has become one big hate watch. I reckon we get far more banter for finishing 2nd and not winning any of the cups than we do when we were getting tonked 6-0, 5-0, 4-0 by the “big 6”. United nicking trophies due to Euromillions odds runs of home draws is perceived as a major achievement vs Arsenal finishing 2 points behind a doped City. I just get really peed off with it as the recognition of what we have done is ignored (by a lot of posters on here too). This season we got it wrong and Arteta probably isn’t the guy but this side was a title winning side in most other seasons for the past two seasons. Our anger should be with City and the Premier League, not with Arteta.

Sorry, but you’re looking for excuses. Sure it’s possible to win titles in weak seasons, but we don’t seem to manage it. As for the Leicester example, it’s an absolute one off over the last 40+ years, so timing is far less important than having a good side. No one talked about timing when Liverpool, Utd and then City had their periods of dominance. If you’re running the club properly, then you don’t have to bank on “timing” giving you a freak break.

As for harking back to the old European Cup format, we didn’t win it then either. The top sides won it under the old format and under the new format.

Looking for these lame excuses is small club mentality. Of course we should be looking at Arteta, he’s the man who’s paid fortunes to get results. You’re using a losers mentality. Some people find excuses, some people find a way. Legohead is paid to find a way.

Let’s talk about the European Cup.

We won the League in 1971 and entered the European Cup in 1972. We got knocked out against a prime Ajax who won the thing. They won it three times in a row 1971, 1972 and 1973 so I’d say we were unlucky to win the League and get our shot in that particular period against a clearly dominant side. We then next won the League in 1989 but guess what we were banned from Europe. The Scousers had cleaned up in Europe over the previous period and then got everyone banned because of Heysel. When we won the League again in 1991 we got knocked out by Benfica. English Clubs had had no Europe due to the ban and so we had no practice, no pedigree in Europe. When we won the Cup Winners Cup in 1993 and got to the Final in 1994 we clearly had pedigree but the squad was poor and we weren’t even up to qualifying for the big pots. Unlucky. Timing my dear.

Absolute nonsense. How do you account for other sides winning it? How does anyone win the European Cup/CL if they're all waiting for the timing to be just right, or does that only apply to us? From decades of watching it, it seems to me that good teams have to beat other good teams to win it. You seem to be saying that we need the stars to align so that we don't have to face any decent sides (it's the CL ffs) and end up playing Brondby in the final.

I see your looking at our historical participation in the competition stops short of the Wenger period. We definitely had "practice" and "pedigree" for being in Europe during that time and qualifying for it was largely what kept the old fucker in a job. What was it, about 18 consecutive years of qualification? Yet in all that time, the stars didn't align and the "timing" was never quite right for us to win it. Bang goes your theory right there. From that entire period, the only occasion that I can recall an unusual, or surprise winner was Porto. That was the year the timing just wasn't right enough for us to beat Chelsea in the QF.

You’re a bit of a numpty aren’t you?

Our Champions League era attempts are a disgrace. What I am saying here is the likes of Forest and Villa coming to our place year after year and singing have you won the European Cup is a joke considering what they had to do to win it. Our prime George Graham squad were only allowed in to it once. The 1971 side played against peak Ajax. Literally any English side that entered it during the mid to late 70s won it. We only started to qualify year after year when it had every top side in Europe and I would stay the difficulty rating has at least doubled. We got robbed in Paris. Barring that we have been shit.

[Limerick Gooner]

To add. If the European Cup had existed before 1955 I reckon we would have several of them. We would have dominated the 30s most likely.

[EC1]

[quote=augie post_id=1277354 time=1741706924 user_id=




Very hard to disagree with that - even going back decades we as a club lacked the ambition of a proper big club. Yes we could talk the talk, and yes we could stick our chests out and talk shite about bank of england club, but when it came down to it we bought cheap and paid cheap too, so winning of trophies was never a high enough priority for ownership. David Dein was the one who changed that mindset, and then in the GG and early Wenger era we allowed ourselves to believe that we were now a proper big club, but the reality is that our owners and board would be pissed at the loss of revenue if we were excluded from a euopean super league, more than the loss of prestige

Overall though I really dont care who is the worst run big club - what boils my piss is that at a time when so many "big clubs" are being badly run, we as a club are not taking advantage cos we lack the ambition and know how in key positions (manager and boardroom). Again it also boils my piss how some (including sid) can point to how badly these other clubs are being run whilst also praising the cone boy for the job he is doing, without even once wondering if he is doing well cos they are shit in recent years We have never even hit 90pts in a season under the cone boy, and the victims twice surpassed that when finishing 2nd If anything we as Gooners should be raging that we havent taken advantage of our rivals more than we have, but instead we look for soft excuses to deflect away from our own issues - Sunday was a prime example cos we focused on how far our wall was back and used it as a defence for a shameful draw against a shit manure team Yes the wall was put too far back, BUT raya's positioning was unacceptable, plus our performance was for the most part a disgrace and we need to own that

Reading this braindead shite makes me realise why I stopped posting on here!
We've finished a close 2nd twice, the Kronkes have put their hand in their pocket!
That said I don't think Arteta can take us to the next level, but did give us back respectability!
Augie I think I remember in one of your insane posts that you're involved at "grassroots level" with the FAI!
That would probably explain why you dont have a fucking baldies!

When you dont recognise the points I am making and automatically dismiss them, then it is you that looks braindead not me

1. When as many "big clubs" are being badly run at the same time (as your poll rightly suggests), then doesnt it make sense that it is an easier time for the cone boy to finish second than a few years ago when manure and the chavs were constantly contenders to win the premier league and champions league ? If you acknowledge that, then surely it dilutes the great achievements that the cone boy keeps getting praised for

2. The kroenkes have indeed backed the cone boy more than any manager in our history - I will argue that spending money isnt the ONLY defining factor when it comes to showing ambition. Manure for all their faults, recognised that ten haag was never going to make them a great team again and sacked him despite the fact that he won 2 cups in the last 2 seasons - our cone boy has won nothing since he dismantled the squad he inherited and started spending the £800m, and that should raise flags imo. Recognising when a manager has reached his level (as both of us agree that the cone boy has), and having the guts to make the tough decision to replace him, sends a signal to the players, to the fans, and to the wider football world, that this is a club that wants to win these trophies and being nearly men is not enough for us - that to me is showing ambition, but our board will be too afraid to make that decision and will instead be grateful to the cone boy and will stick with him and the message that sends our players is that we are not ruthless enough to be real winners at the top level

Btw I never suggested I worked for the fai at any stage - I have filled numerous roles within my local club and served as secretary of our local league for two and a half seasons

You served as a secretary of your local league team, for two and half seasons and yet you carry on as you are some kind of total expert and constantly bad mouth it seems anyone with Arsenal Football Club, manager, owner, players and fans.

You always seem to get more enjoyment out of Arsenal losing than winning.

Dick'ead I give my opinions on here the same as everyone else - doesnt make mine any more or any less qualified than anyone else's, and background and experience has zero to do with it. For the record yes I was only secretary of the league for two and a half years (left of my own choice), but I have also held numerous roles within my own club including secretary for over a decade - those positions dont make a person more pf an expert about the game of football and are more about the administration side of the game and has def taught me a lot about rules etc.
My "expert knowledge" (your words not mine) comes from over 50 years as a football supporter and attending games at different levels from schoolboy's, junior football, premier league and international - its been my obsession for more years than I care to remember, but I have to admit that my love for the game (and AFC) isnt as strong in recent years as money and greed takes bigger hold of the game, but I suspect I am far from alone in that
[/quote]

You love your name calling don’t you.

You fucking moan about everything, clown.

[Limerick Gooner]

Does the Secretary to the League answer the phone and open the post?

[Retro Gunner]

Football is all about timing. You can win titles in weak seasons (Leicester), FA Cups with easy draws and sides turning up drunk to the Final (United last season). You can also win European Cups in an era where you effectively just had to win the Final (Villa, Forest, Scousers). I think we’ve been unfortunate over the last couple of years but that’s football. This season we haven’t been good enough but equally have had a lot of bad luck. Some of our own making (injuries to attacking players) and some not (refs).

The thing that really annoys me though is that football has become one big hate watch. I reckon we get far more banter for finishing 2nd and not winning any of the cups than we do when we were getting tonked 6-0, 5-0, 4-0 by the “big 6”. United nicking trophies due to Euromillions odds runs of home draws is perceived as a major achievement vs Arsenal finishing 2 points behind a doped City. I just get really peed off with it as the recognition of what we have done is ignored (by a lot of posters on here too). This season we got it wrong and Arteta probably isn’t the guy but this side was a title winning side in most other seasons for the past two seasons. Our anger should be with City and the Premier League, not with Arteta.

Sorry, but you’re looking for excuses. Sure it’s possible to win titles in weak seasons, but we don’t seem to manage it. As for the Leicester example, it’s an absolute one off over the last 40+ years, so timing is far less important than having a good side. No one talked about timing when Liverpool, Utd and then City had their periods of dominance. If you’re running the club properly, then you don’t have to bank on “timing” giving you a freak break.

As for harking back to the old European Cup format, we didn’t win it then either. The top sides won it under the old format and under the new format.

Looking for these lame excuses is small club mentality. Of course we should be looking at Arteta, he’s the man who’s paid fortunes to get results. You’re using a losers mentality. Some people find excuses, some people find a way. Legohead is paid to find a way.

Let’s talk about the European Cup.

We won the League in 1971 and entered the European Cup in 1972. We got knocked out against a prime Ajax who won the thing. They won it three times in a row 1971, 1972 and 1973 so I’d say we were unlucky to win the League and get our shot in that particular period against a clearly dominant side. We then next won the League in 1989 but guess what we were banned from Europe. The Scousers had cleaned up in Europe over the previous period and then got everyone banned because of Heysel. When we won the League again in 1991 we got knocked out by Benfica. English Clubs had had no Europe due to the ban and so we had no practice, no pedigree in Europe. When we won the Cup Winners Cup in 1993 and got to the Final in 1994 we clearly had pedigree but the squad was poor and we weren’t even up to qualifying for the big pots. Unlucky. Timing my dear.

Absolute nonsense. How do you account for other sides winning it? How does anyone win the European Cup/CL if they're all waiting for the timing to be just right, or does that only apply to us? From decades of watching it, it seems to me that good teams have to beat other good teams to win it. You seem to be saying that we need the stars to align so that we don't have to face any decent sides (it's the CL ffs) and end up playing Brondby in the final.

I see your looking at our historical participation in the competition stops short of the Wenger period. We definitely had "practice" and "pedigree" for being in Europe during that time and qualifying for it was largely what kept the old fucker in a job. What was it, about 18 consecutive years of qualification? Yet in all that time, the stars didn't align and the "timing" was never quite right for us to win it. Bang goes your theory right there. From that entire period, the only occasion that I can recall an unusual, or surprise winner was Porto. That was the year the timing just wasn't right enough for us to beat Chelsea in the QF.

You’re a bit of a numpty aren’t you?

Our Champions League era attempts are a disgrace. What I am saying here is the likes of Forest and Villa coming to our place year after year and singing have you won the European Cup is a joke considering what they had to do to win it. Our prime George Graham squad were only allowed in to it once. The 1971 side played against peak Ajax. Literally any English side that entered it during the mid to late 70s won it. We only started to qualify year after year when it had every top side in Europe and I would stay the difficulty rating has at least doubled. We got robbed in Paris. Barring that we have been shit.

Only one numpty in this discussion my friend and it ain’t me, but I’m sure anyone reading this will make their own mind up.

You argue like a schoolboy, concocting bizarre notions for failures. Citing “timing” as a reason for not winning trophies is a losers mentality, a completely small club mindset.

Maybe if we wanted to win the European Cup when Villa and Forest had their opportunities, a good start would have been to win the fucking league. As for knocking the scousers, that really is juvenile. Their record is unimpeachable and you don’t win it that many times by relying on timing and luck.

As for us facing Ajax in 1972, that kind of goes with the territory of playing in a competition against Europe’s top sides. The line about “only allowed into it once” under GG, is another slippery comment. We qualified only twice. The ‘91 side were head and shoulders above the ‘89 side but went out with a complete whimper to Benfica, who then went out in the next round. As for Paris, we weren’t “robbed”, we blew it. The stupid sending off and then failing to put away chances to kill the game at 1-0. That’s not being robbed.

I’ve no doubt we’ve had won the competition in the ‘30s had it existed, but then one of the sides you moan about, Villa, would probably have done the same in the 1890s ffs.

Stop looking for excuses mate. The big boys that win the CL don’t rely on “timing”, they understand they have to beat the best and get on with it.

I was going to say you’d be better off supporting the Geordies with your mentality, but we can’t even apply that now.

[augie]

Does the Secretary to the League answer the phone and open the post?

Even in Ireland we use emails now

[Limerick Gooner]

We were robbed in Paris as Eto’s goal was offside. Any proper Gooner knows this.

Don’t let your bitterness blind you to what actually happened in 2006.

[IW8Goalmachine]

We were robbed in Paris as Eto’s goal was offside. Any proper Gooner knows this.

Don’t let your bitterness blind you to what actually happened in 2006.

He was a mile on side

Lads FFS please just quote the last comment instead of creating a skyscraper. It's a fucking disaster on a phone.

[Limerick Gooner]

We were robbed in Paris as Eto’s goal was offside. Any proper Gooner knows this.

Don’t let your bitterness blind you to what actually happened in 2006.

He was a mile on side

Lads FFS please just quote the last comment instead of creating a skyscraper. It's a fucking disaster on a phone.

Mile onside? Is that Howard Webb there?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqxDwTxf8Lg

[IW8Goalmachine]

I'll hold my hands up there because I haven't watched it in years.

Yes he was off but only just. How the can they see that without VAR.

Unfortunately we weren't robbed by anyone but ourselves.

Henry and lehmann shat the togs.

Wenger fucked around with a solid defence starting cashley after it was known he was on the piss the week before with his Chelsea mates.

Wenger also took off pires. Fucking madness

[Retro Gunner]

We were robbed in Paris as Eto’s goal was offside. Any proper Gooner knows this.

Don’t let your bitterness blind you to what actually happened in 2006.

What “bitterness” you prat. You’re clearly the bitter one, finding all sorts of excuses and blaming refs, fixtures, “timing” and anything else you can think of for us coming up short. How about being a grown up about it rather than thinking like a 10 year old.

As for Eto being offside, have you ever noticed Eboue’s Olympic style dive for the free kick that Sol scored from? Nah, that requires an adult mind.

[Retro Gunner]

I'll hold my hands up there because I haven't watched it in years.

Yes he was off but only just. How the can they see that without VAR.


Unfortunately we weren't robbed by anyone but ourselves.

Henry and lehmann shat the togs.

Wenger fucked around with a solid defence starting cashley after it was known he was on the piss the week before with his Chelsea mates.

Wenger also took off pires. Fucking madness

I was in Paris that night and left the stadium with my head up because I was proud of the team and the effort of the 10 men. That said, you’re right IW8, Wenger made some poor decisions and we had enough opportunities to finish the game off.

To say we were “robbed” is symptomatic of latter day Arsenal supporters I’m afraid. Relying on officials rather than on yourself is a losers mentality. Sure, there are occasions when travesties occur, but the big teams generally win regardless of the ref. Cue some clown now telling me that the refs favour them.

I suppose it’s all about “timing” and the pressures of becoming a father.

[A11M11]

Cole was off to Chelsea and Henry to Barcelona . Taking Pires off and not using Bergkamp when we need something up front , Wenger blew it after Lehmann went off.
Still it was fun a t Paris Nord and the walk to the stadium.