11 DAYS OF HOPE & STRESS

As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
Magic Hat
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Post by Magic Hat »

Magic Hat you are clearly just arguing for the sake of it now!
Forgive me but isn't a forum about debating different points of view as well as showing our support of Arsenal?
Your knowledge of football is limited quite clearly and all you are doing is turning comments and fact to make half cocked answers to try and use as replies!
In your opinion, do you think that of all people who disagree with you?
What the fuck do you know about Babel's price and development so far? Part of the Dutch youth set up are you? No thought not! Been folllowing him for some time now? No! Youth coach qualified to assess a player? No!
True, I have only watched him sometimes for Ajax and Holland U21's where I haven't been greatly impressed. I should have said in my opinion, he won't be a great player and that he wasn't worth the price he was sold for.
You then answer about the price tags! You answer the easy ones like Edu and Sol but do not answer the more controversial. It is widely accepted that we have let players go cheap. Dont try and argue the toss otherwise.
I missed the Reyes thing but this covered the others because we sell them while ageing rather then when they can be useful to us?. Managers know they are getting people with only a few years left in them so won't pay over a certain price, no matter how good the player. With Reyes, his wish to only in Spain and Real's refusal to get him greatly limited who we could sell him too and since most clubs who wanted him won't pay that much, we had to take what we could get.
Next more absolute pearls of wisdom! Stepanovs was a decent reserve defender! Pint of what Magic Hat is drinking please! Reverve players do not have signing press confrences like Stepanov's did and they are not given the number 3 squad number!
Given his small transfer fee, I'm willign to take a decent reserve defender for that. Now I'm not sure why Arsene would have gone such lengths and it does seem a misjudgement though it was months before he played.
The Beast was good in the second half of the season was he? What Beast was you watching? Was you on Bodmin Moor as the one we all saw was shite which is why months before the end of the season Arsene made it clear he was being shipped back with a thanks but no thanks tag round his neck!
I said talented, I never said he played well for us.
Pires? Pires getting injured was a coincidence! By your logic even if we signed Pires for a further season he would have still damged his knee playing on a different pitch in a different country? Joke!
It is possible, he is old and at the least we would have had to change our entire over 30 policy which I would rather we didn't do.
You even say then that Seaman was in decline but its ok cos we won a cup and came second! Is that how a goalkeeper is judged? No again!
and if a keeper is that bad, it would be impossible for us to get that far. It didn't overly harm our chances till we found a new keeper, Jens, at which point we let Seamen go.
On to the next beauty! Arsene thinks we have a squad which will emerge in the next few seasons hey? Well then why is he saying we can win it this year? Why did he mention super super class?
because Arsene thinks we can win things? In terms of talent, we can win things, had we taken half the chances we created last season we might well have done so and I highly doubt we are going to miss so many great chances this time around.
Oh yes the super spuer class thing! You suggest that Arsene says he is using the money elsewhere now as at the time he didnt know TH was going! He said before TH was going that he wanted to bring in super super class which means he had the money then to do that or at least wanted us to think that! Even if he had to use that super super class cash to replace TH there is still then the odd £23 million and slashed wage bill floating about from the combined TH/FL/AA transfers. So how does your arguement stack up?
that Arsene told the truth and that once Henry had decided to leave, the situation changed? I was challenging the claim that he had lied. With the loss of Henry, it may have been impossible to get those top top players or the need to make a few changes to the system was more urgent. Get a new right back to push Eboue forward to the wing so we can play 4-4-1-1 more often, add a natural finisher who can finish off our chances, that sort of thing.
Now the strikers! What about two games in and injured? The fact is at the start of the season one of our strikers was proven in the Premier leage and only one of them had scored in the Premier league! To suggest that is strong enough is folly and in fact complete bollocks!
and even with short term knocks to our attack, we could still play 4-4-1-1 or put Bendtendar or Walcott up front. It is strong enough over the course to the season to get goals, the suggestion that RVP, Silva, Ade won't get goals this season is for me, amazing.
Now you go on about unfair comparisons! Yes I am comparing first team players who featured heavily four years ago with players who are featuring heavily now! If the comparison is unfair that is only to do with the golf in class between the players!
So your comparing starters when everyone is fit to what, Eboue (two starts out of two) due to Hleb being up front, Bentender (three sub appearances), Flamini who only starts three games due to injuries and Song who has a grand total of two sub appearances this season.
Now please tell me what the fuck Djorou learns which is so valuable by being in a relegation battle? If the a relegation battle is the place to learn why did he send Bentdner to the same club when they was in a promotion chase last season?
Brummie (my apologies for not trying to full name, dyslexic and a real pain to try and spell) where expected to get promoted so there should be a lot of chances to be had for a striker to take. This season Brummie are expected to struggle so the busy players will be the defending ones, not the attack. 'm not saying they will get relegated in first few months but they will be facing a lot of strong teams where the defenders will have to be good to avoid them having a difficult task by Jan.
Utter utter made up Dream Team clap trap!
Why are you so obsessed with dream team?
I have given up the ghost with you Magic Hat as even though I am sure your a nice bloke you also come across as one of these people you hear in pubs talking like they are Ron Atkinson! Full of shite and football catchphrases! I fully expect to hear you say "lollipop at the back stick giving it the eyes" in your next reply!
As you wish, "lollipop at the back stick, giving it the eyes".
By all means challenge and disagree with what I say but have the decency to back it up with fact and reasonable arguement not the fantasy football you have swimming around in your head!
Your so kind oh great gus, the man who knows all to allow a humble pleb like myself to learn from your fountain of wisdom :roll:
you are not a fan of Ribery.Are you happy that we are playing a failed full back on the wing or Theo who is not ready. Ribery is an out and out winger who can do the job that Eboue and Walcott cant.Ribery has proved himself at European level and at the world cup.You know nothing about football as your comment that Stepanovs was a decent defender proves The man was SHIT. As for your comment about Pires even with one leg he would have played better than Hleb and Rosicky last season.
I really wans't impressed by him at the woild cup and would prefer Hleb on the wing with Sanga getting forward. I think Eboue could be a decent winger and all Theo needs is confidence that he had at start of last season when he gave Bolton, Germany U21's and Aston Villa trouble.

Yes, saying that the Man U game aside, a Latvia defender's other 16 appearances were not awful is a little controversial. Hleb was pretty good last season, 3rd in the Fink Tank and I enjoyed watching him play., needed to be able to shoot was my one complaint last season with him.

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Cockerill's chin
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Post by Cockerill's chin »

We have now finshed fourth for two years running. Last year we were over twenty points behind Manure and the summer 07 saw more talent leave us than arrive. This is in stark contrast to clubs above and below us.

Arsene has transformed not only Arsenal but the EPL. This does not mean we cannot question him.

Magic Hat, I don't want to get into a typing frenzy so I will pick out one point:

you put a positive spin on Djourou going to Birmingham. Are you mad?

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augie
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Post by augie »

To a large large degree I am with Gus on most points.

To start with I'd like to question magic hat on his comments re djouru's loan deal. He says that 4 months in a relegation battle will help djouru but what i want to know is how it will help our club in the meantime. We are now left with just 3 proper centre backs and one of them(senderos) is coming off a nightmare season so has it all to prove that he is good enough.

I now am firmly in the "we need a striker" camp. At the moment we have 1 proven goalscorer in the prem(rvp), 1 proven willing worker who hasnt shown consistantcy in the goalscoring dept(ade), 1 proven goalscorer in the crotatian league but unproven and unfamiliar to our league and lastly we have 2 "kids" in theo & bedtner who are totally unproven in this league or any other top level league - does this convince you that we have enough firepower cos it dont do it for me. Anelka at the price he is available has to be within our price range surely ?

Have to say magic hat that some of your assesments on our ex players is disrespectful and wide of the mark too. I'll admit that i was never a huge fan of pires like some are but credit where it is due he had a fab scoring record from midfield while serving our club and that is something none of our current midfielders is capable of. To knock pires and point to his injury as a valid point in releasing him is totally riduculous - fair enough he wouldnt sign a 1yr deal & we shouldnt change the rules for him but he still would have done the business for us for another year or two. The beast showed nothing close to any talent while with us last season unless you class a lack of ball control as a talent. You can blame real madrid for his lack of fittness but not for the worst ball control ever seen in the top flight of english football.

Is it just me or is the whole "we have money to spend" & the comment about super super signings just bullshit thrown out by the club at a time that fans are renewing season tickets ? In any other business this would be classed as false advertisment in order to obtain money from hard pressed fans and should not be allowed. I dont like the whole arguement that in a few years time we are going to have a great team - i assume this is based on the likes of cesc, van persie etc agreeing to sacrifice those years from their short careers in order to wait for our dream team to mature ? This statement smakes of something from one of the old fifa games where nobody buys any players and you keep all your players. In truth we all know that in the next few years all of our rivals will be strengthening their squads constantly and we will be left well behind both playing wise and financially.

I doubt if there is an arsenal fan out there that doesnt want wenger to stay with us for a long time yet but the facts are that we are now at a crossroads and sticking his head and our heads in the sand and saying that everything is/will be ok doesnt quite cut if for me

Magic Hat
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Post by Magic Hat »

Cockerill's chin wrote:
you put a positive spin on Djourou going to Birmingham. Are you mad?
I think it will benefit the player, short term it is a risk but I would imagine the idea is we have enough versatility to cover if need be. Wouldn't mind a realse clause in the loan though
He says that 4 months in a relegation battle will help djouru but what i want to know is how it will help our club in the meantime
that isn't the point of the loan, the idea I have always understood loans to be is for long term benefit of player and hopefully club. As for Senderos, remember he was a part of the Swiss defence that did so well at the world cup, is a good header of the ball and would say last season was error prone rather then nightmare. Maybe though I'm just being kind.
1 proven goalscorer in the crotatian league
and international level. I honestly expect good things from Silva this season, that is why I'm not worried. Anelka is a good scorer, pacy and if it wasn't for his history, would be good add to most clubs. I would stick with what we have right now.

When did I say Pires was bad? I'm saying he was old, he will become more injury prone and his refusal to go for a one year contract but wanting a secure two year (not that I blame him) meant he was going to leave the club. I wish him well this season and if he had chosen to just sign one year contract, I would have been happy that we kept him.

The Beast had decent enough control, just no idea how to finish, he showed glimpses of what he could do but I agree he isn't suited for English football. Glad we discovered that on loan rather then another Reyes type loss.

We will lose Cesc at some point, we all know that and I worry how we will replace him but I think the finical prudence being shown will pay off when the EPL loses its status as most popular league as Italy did, it will go in circles. Will Man U, Chelsea and Liverpool always be able to lean on their owners?

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I Hate Hleb
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Post by I Hate Hleb »

I'M WITH THE PESSIMISTS (OR AS I PREFER, THE REALISTS) ON THIS ONE.

AS FOR BAPTISTA - I USED TO QUESTION WHETHER GILBERTO WAS REALLY BRAZILIAN WITH HIS POOR TOUCH AND PASSING ABILITY BUT BLIMEY, THIS GUY WOULD HAVE STRUGGLED TO GET INTO A DECENT HACKNEY MARSHES TEAM.

I HAVE NEVER, AND I MEAN NEVER, SEEN A SUPPOSED BRAZILIAN INTERNATIONAL FORWARD/MIDFIELDER WITH A POORER CONTROL OF A FOOTBALL.

INDEED, THE PHRASE 'FIRST TOUCH OF A RAPIST' WAS INVENTED SPECIFICALLY FOR HIM!!

MAGIC HAT, I DO ADMIRE YOUR FAITH AND CONFIDENCE BUT ON THIS OCCASION I THINK YOUR ARGUMENTS ARE RELYING TOO MUCH ON THE KEEPING FINGERS CROSSED PHILOSOPHY OF LIFE.

I THINK THE MAJORITY OF US FEEL THAT A CLUB OF ARSENAL'S STATURE SHOULD BE MORE THAN JUST HOPEFUL THAT EVERYTHING WILL FALL INTO PLACE - THAT'S FOR THE LIKES OF SPUDS, TOON, THE VILLIANS AND CITY, NOT THE ARSENAL!! THE THING IS, THE CLUB SAY THE MONEY IS THERE, SO WHY WON'T WENGER SPEND IT?

I GENUINELY HOPE, AS I'M SURE DO ALL OF THOSE THAT DISAGREE WITH YOU, THAT THINGS WORK OUT OKAY AND YOU ARE PROVEN RIGHT ABOUT THE PROSPECTS OF OUR CLUB. BUT THE TRUTH IS BY NOT STRENGTHENING, WE ARE PUTTING AT RISK - AND UNNECESSARILY SO - EVERYTHING WE HAVE WORKED SO HARD THUS FAR TO ACHIEVE.

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we_are_the_arsenal
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Post by we_are_the_arsenal »

Magic hat ur spot on, well done. handled yourself well. Made points without getting agressive. I'm on your side.

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Cockerill's chin
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Post by Cockerill's chin »

Might need to spin harder on the Djourou loan, though.

Looks like Gallas is out for 6 weeks.

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528, ... 69,00.html

Magic Hat
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Post by Magic Hat »

He was talking to a French magazine, I think what he meant is France won't see him till Oct but I'll wait to see what happens, could be wrong there.

I would like to point out that the Beast score a hatrick against Argentina and was coveted when at Seville (?) by top clubs so the potential is there for someone to unlock.

I'm just hoping we don't lose our front two strikers for a long period of time again, then 4th is all we can manage. I don't think we can win the title this season as Chelsea are too strong at the moment but we can make a challenge in my view which at least would perk us all up.

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All_Arsenal_1886
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Post by All_Arsenal_1886 »

What is this? have a go at magic hat day or something :lol:

I'm with you on this magic hat all points are valid ones :D

there's no harm in believing 8)

gus ceasar is a legend
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Post by gus ceasar is a legend »

No this is not have a go at Magic Hat day this is just a dose of realism that some people find very hard to swallow!

Im sorry if I seemed aggresive but it becomes rather frustrating when the answers that come bacl to you are of course an opinion but an opinion without basis!

I cannot see an answer that is built on sound fact! Opinion is great but to have an INFORMED opinion you must have fact to base that opinion on! An idea of how you would like it to be is not enough!

I could say..........Brazil is a beuatiful country! Ive never been there though so how can I argue with someone who comes back and says the tiny minority of it is nice the rest is shittyy and Ive travelled all over Brazil. His opinion is based on fact so it is an INFORMED opinion. If I was to turn round and say I still thinks its beautiful its an opinion but an UNINFORMED opinion.

And there is the difference.

There is nothing wrong with realism and if factual reason backs up the realism then that my friends is what is called the truth!

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DB10GOONER
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Post by DB10GOONER »

All_Arsenal_1886 wrote:
rebel gooner wrote:
All_Arsenal_1886 wrote:
Cockerill's chin wrote:Can anyone think of a good, realistic CB we should go for who is old enough to vote?

Also, a goalscoring left sided midfielder.

I'm sure they exist.
YES MATT TAYLOR FROM PORTSMOUTH IS A LEFT SIDED GOALSCORER AND CURTIS DAVIS IS A GOOD CENTER BACK FROM WEST BROM, BOTH AVALIBLE ASWELL :D
i think we understand that you really really like matt taylor :wink: question is why hasnt a big club com in for him :?: id like anelka back,, he,d get us goals
BECAUSE ALL BIG CLUBS ARE BLIND :wink: :lol:
I SEE PAPA BOUBA DIOP IS SET TO LEAVE FULHAM. WOULD HE BE A GOOD BUY FRO ARSENAL :?:
AND I DONT WANT ANELKA BACK NO WAY WHAT SO EVER, THE TEAM IS AS ONE AND IF HE CAME BACK HE WILL DEVIDE THE TEAM TRUST ME HE IS EVIL :evil: :lol:
AA1886 - Are you, in fact, Mr Matty Taylor? :wink:

And Jaysus Lads, I'm only catching up on this thread but that was a bit of an ould gang bang on poor old Magic Hat, huh? :shock: :?

We all have different opinions. Some valid, some sh*te.

Have to say though that stepanovs was diabolical and the Beast does have the first touch of a rapist... a BLIND rapist. 8)

I can see both sides of this argument, so I'm somewhere in the middle, I guess. We have a good squad of young players BUT we need to strengthen with experienced quality too.

Wenger can have truely astonishing vision regarding finding players that are diamonds in the rough, but he seems to be blinded to how bad some players really are at times too... :?

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REB
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Post by REB »

i think theres for and against magic hats coments,,at the time i didnt mind jd goin 2 brum but now i feel it was wrong of aw becos we are very short at the back,, gilbert will never make it at arsenal and if he was any good then some one midtable would hav bought him,, i dont want us 2 hav be movin players out of there position like sagna goin 2 cb,, simple fact is we are short of quality in a few areas namely,, at the back, we need a winger, and we really should hav splashed out on a replacement for th14,, i hope silva can gets us goals but we needed another striker, NOW WHO IN THE CLUB IS A LIAR, phw keeps comin out wit statments sayin the club hav money 2 spend and hav never refused aw money for transfers,, as arsenal fans we hav all seen the lows as well as our recent highs in which we can thank aw for, but the fact is unless we buck up and buck up fast then we are goin nowhere fast,, we need more qualiyy players now not in a couple of seasons when our players hav grown up

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All_Arsenal_1886
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Post by All_Arsenal_1886 »

DB10GOONER wrote:
All_Arsenal_1886 wrote:
rebel gooner wrote:
All_Arsenal_1886 wrote:
Cockerill's chin wrote:Can anyone think of a good, realistic CB we should go for who is old enough to vote?

Also, a goalscoring left sided midfielder.

I'm sure they exist.
YES MATT TAYLOR FROM PORTSMOUTH IS A LEFT SIDED GOALSCORER AND CURTIS DAVIS IS A GOOD CENTER BACK FROM WEST BROM, BOTH AVALIBLE ASWELL :D
i think we understand that you really really like matt taylor :wink: question is why hasnt a big club com in for him :?: id like anelka back,, he,d get us goals
BECAUSE ALL BIG CLUBS ARE BLIND :wink: :lol:
I SEE PAPA BOUBA DIOP IS SET TO LEAVE FULHAM. WOULD HE BE A GOOD BUY FRO ARSENAL :?:
AND I DONT WANT ANELKA BACK NO WAY WHAT SO EVER, THE TEAM IS AS ONE AND IF HE CAME BACK HE WILL DEVIDE THE TEAM TRUST ME HE IS EVIL :evil: :lol:
AA1886 - Are you, in fact, Mr Matty Taylor? :wink:

And Jaysus Lads, I'm only catching up on this thread but that was a bit of an ould gang bang on poor old Magic Hat, huh? :shock: :?

We all have different opinions. Some valid, some sh*te.

Have to say though that stepanovs was diabolical and the Beast does have the first touch of a rapist... a BLIND rapist. 8)

I can see both sides of this argument, so I'm somewhere in the middle, I guess. We have a good squad of young players BUT we need to strengthen with experienced quality too.

Wenger can have truely astonishing vision regarding finding players that are diamonds in the rough, but he seems to be blinded to how bad some players really are at times too... :?
No gang bang on my part i was agreeing with Magic Hat :D
I understand everyone has diffrent views on the subject but instead of complaining about everything Arsenal do let get behind them :D (NOT IN A GAY WAY) :lol:

gus ceasar is a legend
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Post by gus ceasar is a legend »

There was no gang bang on my part either!

Im sorry if I came across abupt but Im afraid I take offence to the dissection of my comments and breaking down what I have to say into segments which are then answered with very little fact!

Magic Hat
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Post by Magic Hat »

My apologies Gus, though I think you give me too little credit, I can see why you were annoyed. Breaking things into segments is a habit of mine, I find it avoids me losing track

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