As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
Robsy wrote:As for our Russian friend, why does he want to invest in the UK? Anyone who thinks it for his love of OUR club is wrong. He wants to get his money out of Russia and cleaned up before Putin comes gunning. He wants to do a Roman and create a high profile image so the Russian Authorities think twice before doing anything. Believe this...HE WILL WANT A FAT RETURN FOR HIS MONEY.
Some excellent points there Robsy.
However, our Russian Friend's guilt is unproven at the moment. But Putin is going to clean up alot of these new Obligarchs that supported Yeltsin and were "rewarded" with huge industries. That is a fact. Roman's mate Mikhail Borisovich Khodorkovsky (once the wealthiest man in Russia and 16th wealthiest in the world!) was the first to be investigated; he got 9 years prison on fraud charges and ended up in a labour camp (allegedly) mining uranium . He was relatively unknown in western media.
He was almost ruined financially too; the poor b*stard has only about $500 million left... bless.
So if our lad is dodgy, then I agree, it looks like he has seen the writing on the wall and is trying to do a "Roman" as you say and trying to create a high western profile to protect himself.
As I say, this is unproven at the moment, but it wouldn't surprise me...
Debating is fine if the debate is based on opinions which are backed by knowledge and fact!
Copy and pasting comments as proof when there is nothing to suggest that the pasted comments are true in the first instance only clouds the issue!
Im sorry if I seem tetchy about this but if having my posts dissected and commented against in the way they are is frankly very annoying! Added to that the way my comments are responded to as if from a level of higher and greater or insider knowledge is wrong in as much as none of us here know the true facts! I myself alwAYs say I BELIEVE but others on here say WE BELIEVE in a way that implies they are a board member or something!
All I ask for is that if you have an opinion you use your own knowledge, intelligence and facts to back that opinion up and not copy and paste any old statement which we are asked to believe is gospel!
Rant over,dummy being sucked again and toys well and truely secured in the pram!
Whether you trust or distrust The Board, Russians or DD, one thing that cannot be good for the future of the club is DEBT. DD talks about the need for significant investment but where does that come from? Not free hand outs that's for sure. It would be borrowed money against the club. How would you like to have the most expensive side in Europe if it meant tickets prices were increased to such a level that you couldn't afford to go and watch your beloved Arsenal?? Utd fans are starting to discover what that's like.
Ok yes we do need to be in a position to compete financially with the top clubs in Europe. But do we need further borrowed money to do that? I don't trust the ramblings of Edleman or The Board when they tell us how much money Arsene has available, but would they really lie about how healthy a position we are in when they know they have to publicly publish the accounts in less than a month? With every passing year at The Grove we become financially stronger. You don't move to a new ground and become rich overnight, you have to wait for return to come back in. That time is now upon us, or at worst round the corner (literally so if you include the money from the Highbury flats.)
Everything looks very rosey at Utd and Liverpool as their takeovers are elatively recent. The sudden splashing out on players looks great, but lets not kid ourselves that it isn't creating a troublesome legacy that they have to address in the not too distant future. The current Board - Love them, hate them or despise them - don't take dividends out of the club as far as I know. Do you really think the Russian Co. will take nothing out?? Love the club as DD might, he won't be able to stop them taking their slice of the pie. At the end of the day they are Businessmen, not football romantics.
I'd love to see DD back at the club with a big say in the running of the club - but not sole control. But I don't want that if it means burdening us with £M's of extra debt. Short term it might look great, but long term it can't be good.
Also, if in 6 months DD and his new friends launch a takeover bid, the current Board are hardly likely to roll over and concede defeat. A hostile takeover would be very unsettling for the club and is likely to put a block on any transfer activity whilst going on.
Now if anyone wants to donate millions of 'free' money then I'm happy with that!
Trevheff wrote:Whether you trust or distrust The Board, Russians or DD, one thing that cannot be good for the future of the club is DEBT. DD talks about the need for significant investment but where does that come from? Not free hand outs that's for sure. It would be borrowed money against the club. How would you like to have the most expensive side in Europe if it meant tickets prices were increased to such a level that you couldn't afford to go and watch your beloved Arsenal?? Utd fans are starting to discover what that's like.
Ok yes we do need to be in a position to compete financially with the top clubs in Europe. But do we need further borrowed money to do that? I don't trust the ramblings of Edleman or The Board when they tell us how much money Arsene has available, but would they really lie about how healthy a position we are in when they know they have to publicly publish the accounts in less than a month? With every passing year at The Grove we become financially stronger. You don't move to a new ground and become rich overnight, you have to wait for return to come back in. That time is now upon us, or at worst round the corner (literally so if you include the money from the Highbury flats.)
Everything looks very rosey at Utd and Liverpool as their takeovers are elatively recent. The sudden splashing out on players looks great, but lets not kid ourselves that it isn't creating a troublesome legacy that they have to address in the not too distant future. The current Board - Love them, hate them or despise them - don't take dividends out of the club as far as I know. Do you really think the Russian Co. will take nothing out?? Love the club as DD might, he won't be able to stop them taking their slice of the pie. At the end of the day they are Businessmen, not football romantics.
I'd love to see DD back at the club with a big say in the running of the club - but not sole control. But I don't want that if it means burdening us with £M's of extra debt. Short term it might look great, but long term it can't be good.
Also, if in 6 months DD and his new friends launch a takeover bid, the current Board are hardly likely to roll over and concede defeat. A hostile takeover would be very unsettling for the club and is likely to put a block on any transfer activity whilst going on.
Now if anyone wants to donate millions of 'free' money then I'm happy with that!
Forgive me Trevheff, I don't have time to dissect your entire post. But we are ALREADY paying the highest prices to watch football in Europe, and I would guess, the world. Man Utd's highest season ticket prices is £836, lower than my lowest price season ticket!
Your right Galasso, Man U tickets are cheaper than ours, at the moment.
Two points though:
1. The Radio 5 Live report quoted "stock market reports" to the effect that in the next 3 years there will be something like a 5-7% rise in the price of a Manwho season ticket and then a hefty 9% rise in the fourth year. That should cover some of the borrowing the Glazers made, but there is the little question of an additional amount of borrowing that they've 'offset'. Its the small total of over £100m. No one on the board have explained how that will be paid off in full in the final fifth year. Clear as mud...but a certainty that season ticket prices will rise year-on-year up north;
2. The cost of season tickets is relative to the cost of living in each part of the country. It's cheaper up north, but so is beer, houses, cars, nearly everything. I'd like to see a league of prices compared with cost of living/wages as that would be a fairer reflection than just the bottom line.
Have to say that some of the postings on this subject both on this forum and other blogs are laughable. A few months ago it was all "we dont want no yank" and now its "at least kroenke has a history of sports clubs". Its f*cking embarrassing watching and listening to some fans scurrying like doomsday is coming. You appear to have 2 choices my friends -
1. Support DD & his backers. Dein is the man that has revolutionised our great club long before he appointed wenger. He is the man that took a club that was so stale back in the 80's (under the hill-wood ownership i might add) that it stank and didnt look like it would ever be a big club again and made them one of the biggest clubs in europe. Granted he didnt do this alone but even wenger was his appointment and no doubt would be an allie and be delighted with his return. DD has said what most of us have said all summer long - we NEED investment. We are no longer competing with the other big clubs financially and we all know deep down that the current board are not in a position to allow us to compete so the only way to compete is to bring in outside investment a la DD.
2. We sit back & be proud that our great club continues its lone fight against foreign ownership as it refuses to sell. We continue to "boast"(lie) loudly to any fool that will listen to us about the outstanding financial position the club is in and the huge transfer kitty wenger has to play with. In the meantime we decide not to buy anybody and tell the world it is because of the great youngsters we have coming through even though everybody knows we aint got a pot to piss in. After yet another season or 2 of failing to make a serious challenge for trophies our star players(cesc,rvp etc) decide to f*ck off to a club that actually makes in effort to win trophies instead of just talking big and le boss who gets brassed off trying to keep up with the jones with 1 arm tied behind his back financially see's the departure of his stars as the last straw and departs for a proper big club.
It amazes me that some fans claim that we should actually sit tight for a few years under the guise that everything will then be ok. Does these clowns expect the other clubs to stand still in the meantime ? Do they also expect our best players to hang around while we get sorted out and all the while turn down offers from clubs that are progressing beyond us ? Do they also think that after 4 or 5 years(its already been 2 years) of selling our established top players, failing to replace them properly & with no investment or trophies that we will be able to make up the lost ground just like that ? Fact is there is no tomorrow in football anymore and we will be left behind if we cannot invest NOW. Like every Gooner worldwide I do not want to see the club mortgaged to the hilt like manure but I trust DD implicitly and do not feel he will go down that road. After all the man has done over the last 20 odd years he deserves that trust
Those of us against any takeover have a different version of your two points augie I have to admit that the suggestion, if I read this right, that there is no tomorrow in football anymore amazes me, yes the other clubs will move on but what happens when the bubble bursts? I don't honestly think the EPL is going to be a cash cow forever or that once football is not profitable that the debt will go and the investors stay. Ok, maybe that won't happen, maybe the boom will continue but I would rather settle for safety then to gamble and suffer for years trying to recover. Keep within our means for the next generation to have a club to watch
Augie I haven't had time to read everything of what everyone else has been sayin, but I don't care what nationality the owner(s) of our club is/are, but the one concern I do have is that it seems the one common denominator with most of the stances that are being taken in regard to the recent unrest surrounding the club and that includes yours, is that they are far too extreme!
The problem with the views that the board are a bunch of incompetent fools stuck in a timewarp, to DD being a saviour, is that in reality neither is true it just depends on how cynical you are prepared to be with respect to the motives of the power-brokers involved!
Robsy wrote:Your right Galasso, Man U tickets are cheaper than ours, at the moment.
Two points though:
1. The Radio 5 Live report quoted "stock market reports" to the effect that in the next 3 years there will be something like a 5-7% rise in the price of a Manwho season ticket and then a hefty 9% rise in the fourth year. That should cover some of the borrowing the Glazers made, but there is the little question of an additional amount of borrowing that they've 'offset'. Its the small total of over £100m. No one on the board have explained how that will be paid off in full in the final fifth year. Clear as mud...but a certainty that season ticket prices will rise year-on-year up north;
2. The cost of season tickets is relative to the cost of living in each part of the country. It's cheaper up north, but so is beer, houses, cars, nearly everything. I'd like to see a league of prices compared with cost of living/wages as that would be a fairer reflection than just the bottom line.
Don't forget...WE ALSO WATCH BETTER FOOTBALL!!
Yes, I would always take North London over that salford shithole with it's sub-human inhabitants ("wankers")!!
Of course you're correct on the points made, with which I agree. However, I was just noting that Trevheff said How would you like to have the most expensive side in Europe if it meant tickets prices were increased to such a level that you couldn't afford to go and watch your beloved Arsenal?
I though it worth noting that some people are already on the edge of not being able to afford going. And we have probably one of the least expensive top sides in Europe being watched by those paying the highest already. How much further up can it go? I will be interested to see how much we raise our prices by over the next 4 years.
Not sayin you're wrong Galasso but look at the price of the Spuds' tickets and that's for a shit team in a shit stadium in a shit area or what about the oft mentioned ManUre tickets their dearest season ticket may be the same as our cheapest one but it's far from being as clear cut as that!
The cost of living which includes running a stadium in the capital is one of the highest anywhere in the world and the average wage in London reflects this, and may go some way to explaining why it was the dearest season tickets for Ashburton which sold out first!
The Mancs do not have a nice new shiny stadium to show for their dramatically increasing ticket prices and even tho you could argue that their prices still have to go a long way to rival ours, you also have to consider that they have 20,000+ fans who sit in the outer reaches of the stratosphere watching something more like subutteo than an actual match whereas with a capacity of "only" 60,000 our match view could be argued to match the cost of the seats in that aspect!
Then of course as well as the discrepancy in the gate there's the simple fact that we don't have a merchandising turnover anywhere near theirs either but had probably more world class players and the second highest wage bill in the Prem!
. He was relatively unknown in western media. 
