WENGER DEMANDS RESPECT FROM FANS

As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
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hadareud
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Post by hadareud »

what the hell is wrong with asking for respect? He said criticism is fine, as long as it's respectful.

Calling a 31 year old player a geriatric is not respectful, it's beyond stupid and you have to be an absolute twat to say that to the manager.

Did anyone actually bother to watch the press conference to see what Wenger actually said about it?

Of course not, it's far easier to whinge and moan and say that he's lost the plot.

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wave of mutilation
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Post by wave of mutilation »

augie wrote:I am one of those that fear that wenger has had his best days with us and is now on a downward slope. Apart from the fact that I believe that he has brought us as far as he can, I also fear that if he stays on too longer he will maybe damage the memories and respect which he should hold forever from the fans. Right now I have to say that I am losing a little more respect for him with every passing day and I do feel sad about it. It isnt that he is having a go at the fans that I have a problem with but it is because he is doing so from a position of weakness and he doesnt see that. If he, the players and the board were on top of their game and they had a go at the fans for lack of atmosphere and support or whatever then that would be fair enough but he is crucifying us tactically, there is fcuk all investment in bringing in quality players, the players are being way over paid and too many of them do not seem to give a flying fcuk :evil:

It seems that Arsenal Football Club is the only business in the world that you are not allowed to voice your displeasure for the muck that you are paying top dollar for :roll: It seems to me that wenger doesnt value the fans opinions as he clearly thinks that we know fcuk all. He should know that you dont have to have played the game at a high level to be knowledgeable about the game cos after all he wasnt much of a player when he was younger but it didnt affect his knowledge of the game did it ? I am not for one second saying that any one of us is more knowledgeable than wenger but what you saw at the shareholders meeting was representative of thousands of Gooners everywhere and we cant all be wrong all of the time can we arsene ? :roll:

I have to say that if the man doesnt change his stance towards the fans and stop trying to blackmail everyone for his unconditional support then I for one would tell him to piss off to madrid
excellent post augie

sums up how I feel exactly

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wave of mutilation
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Post by wave of mutilation »

hadareud wrote:
Calling a 31 year old player a geriatric is not respectful, it's beyond stupid and you have to be an absolute twat to say that to the manager.
perhaps it was a snide reference to Wenger's youth policy?

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Glitch33
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Post by Glitch33 »

Let's see what happens before the next season starts.

AW has said he will sign a couple of experienced players. There are rumours that he is happy to unload Ade.

Two good players - of the quality of AA and Ade going will do a hell of a lot to get the fans behind him again.

There are signs that he is listening and taking action. He is too proud to admit his errors and I don't think we'll know exactly what has gone on behind closed doors this season.

I'm sure the there have been major dressing room upsets that have affected performances. Not least Kolo and Willy, but others too I'm sure.

All it needs is for AW to strengthen the squad in the obvious places, play the players in the right position and make proper tactical changes rather than predetermined changes after 60 mins that he decided would happen a few days earlier!

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donaldo
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Post by donaldo »

hadareud wrote:
Calling a 31 year old player a geriatric is not respectful, it's beyond stupid and you have to be an absolute twat to say that to the manager.
Yes, it is not respectful.............. to a geriatric. An 80 year old man with a zimmer frame is a better defender than Silvestre

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Vince
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Post by Vince »

I think he deserves respect, for what he has done for this Club AND for what he's doing at the moment. Some fans dont trust him anymore, OK, but they still should respect him. The same fans will regret him when he'll retire and will say 'it was better before..' and will laugh about all the supposed bad times during Wenger's management.
As an Arsenal fan I never felt Wenger lacked of respect, I find it ridiculous that some people think like that. And for me, there's nothing surprising that a manager defend his players. What did you expect him to say?
I think there's a lot of passion in what a lot of fans say, they expected better things .. But I dont see what's wrong in what Wenger said recently. And to be honest, when I look at the other Clubs, I'm feeling really lucky to be an arsenal fan.

ps: sorry for my english :wink:

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g88ner
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Post by g88ner »

augie wrote: It seems that Arsenal Football Club is the only business in the world that you are not allowed to voice your displeasure for the muck that you are paying top dollar for :roll:
Muck? :oops: :roll:

With all respect Augie, I know we're hardly the invincibles anymore but it's hardly muck, is it?!

We have a young TALENTED team who gave you a trip to Wembley, a European adventure and a 4th place finish behind arguably (along with Barca) the best 3 teams in the world at the moment.
augie wrote: It seems to me that wenger doesnt value the fans opinions as he clearly thinks that we know fcuk all.
Oh come on... what manager worth his salt would listen to the fans???

It's HIS job to make a success of Arsenal. He's done a great job in the past, and in these trying times I think we need to back him and let him get on with it.

Our job is to support the team... not make it more difficult for Wenger by making Bendtner, Song, Denilson, Eboue, Ade, etc. feel unwanted.
augie wrote: I have to say that if the man doesnt change his stance towards the fans and stop trying to blackmail everyone for his unconditional support then I for one would tell him to piss off to madrid
I don't understand how you can be so flippant :x

There's no need to accuse Wenger of blackmail, and it's below the belt to suggest he piss off to Madrid; Does the fact that Wenger has been fully committed to Arsenal for 13 years mean nothing to you?

You say he demands unconditional support, but surely all he really wants is for the fans to take a small dose of reality... for the fans to STOP moaning at the players and show a little respect. Leave Silvestre alone. Stop booing the young players. Stop trying to force Adebayor out of the club. Stop groaning at every misplaced pass.

In fact, support the team. That's all. It's not an unreasonable request, is it? :?

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Post by Calo »

last 4 of years of drival earns no respect from me

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Post by mcdowell42 »

Glitch33 wrote:Anyone else think that Ade and AW have both lost the plot?

They can easily bring it back onside.

Ade needs remember what a hard working team player he was. Doing all the running alongside TH14 and great team ethic last season. Ade lost the plot half way through last season when he thought Golden Boot and I'm the new Henry. Downhill since then but surely easy to get back to where he was. Probably too late now but he could have redeened himself this season.

Likewise Arsene. Had the winning formula in his grasp then looks like he has let the ego take control and thinks he can do no wrong. Just get back to that winning formula - Strong defence, skillful players in their natural position, punish team on the break. Again it's pretty easy to get back to those winning principles - if he wants to.
adebayor onside when

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Basil is a Gooner
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Post by Basil is a Gooner »

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archiv ... -criticism

By Chris Harris

Arsène Wenger can take criticism – as long as it is constructive and delivered with respect.
The Arsenal manager has come under fire since his team crashed out of the Champions League and the FA Cup, not least when he faced a barrage of hostile questions at a Q&A with Club shareholders last week.
Wenger was hurt by the attacks on his players that night and, at his pre-match press conference, he explained why. In the Frenchman’s view, Arsenal’s shareholders have done well out of the Club’s success in recent years.
“I was disappointed because I believe especially the shareholders cannot complain,â€

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Post by Belfast Boy »

g88ner wrote:
augie wrote: It seems that Arsenal Football Club is the only business in the world that you are not allowed to voice your displeasure for the muck that you are paying top dollar for :roll:
Muck? :oops: :roll:

With all respect Augie, I know we're hardly the invincibles anymore but it's hardly muck, is it?!

We have a young TALENTED team who gave you a trip to Wembley, a European adventure and a 4th place finish behind arguably (along with Barca) the best 3 teams in the world at the moment.
augie wrote: It seems to me that wenger doesnt value the fans opinions as he clearly thinks that we know fcuk all.
Oh come on... what manager worth his salt would listen to the fans???

It's HIS job to make a success of Arsenal. He's done a great job in the past, and in these trying times I think we need to back him and let him get on with it.

Our job is to support the team... not make it more difficult for Wenger by making Bendtner, Song, Denilson, Eboue, Ade, etc. feel unwanted.
augie wrote: I have to say that if the man doesnt change his stance towards the fans and stop trying to blackmail everyone for his unconditional support then I for one would tell him to piss off to madrid
I don't understand how you can be so flippant :x

There's no need to accuse Wenger of blackmail, and it's below the belt to suggest he piss off to Madrid; Does the fact that Wenger has been fully committed to Arsenal for 13 years mean nothing to you?

You say he demands unconditional support, but surely all he really wants is for the fans to take a small dose of reality... for the fans to STOP moaning at the players and show a little respect. Leave Silvestre alone. Stop booing the young players. Stop trying to force Adebayor out of the club. Stop groaning at every misplaced pass.

In fact, support the team. That's all. It's not an unreasonable request, is it? :?
Brilliant post g88ner and it you summed up my feelings cos I would also like to know who are all these players we are watching who about it's obvious they don't give a fuck :?

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Percy Dalton
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Post by Percy Dalton »

Why is Wenger being so sloof and pompous?

We all respect the man but his attitude towards the fans this season has been disgusting. If everything was rosy and we was disrespecting him then he would have every right to bitch at us!

However, all is not well and shareholders and suppporters have the right to question his judgement, more so in an era when the man has continues to make ridiculous and mis-leading statements.

In any other business a manager who said judge me on my results in May and then moved the target back TWO YEARS would be deemed incompetent and removed.

As someone said before, Arsene has shown us little respect this season and in fact on several occasions has publicly criticised the people that week in, week out chant his name.

It shows poorly on Wenger that the first time he has had his wisdom challenged he throws a hissy fit and blames all around him.

If he would only admit that he has made the serious errors that all can see then I would respect him totally.

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augie
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Post by augie »

G88ner let me clarify my stance -

when I referred to watching muck it may have been a bit generalised but we have had countless muck performances this season (fulham away certainly springs to mind) and it would be naive to think otherwise. For the biggest part of the season we have seen dire performances from song and denilson in particular and that is coming from a man that would be a denilson fan :oops: What can we say about diaby ? His performances v chavs in cup semi and v the mancs in champs league semi were nothing short of woeful and to call them muck would be offensive to muck :oops:

I never said wenger should listen to the fans and do as they wish but what I did say, and I stand by this, is that he is totally disrespectful to the fans if he feels that they have no right to voice their displeasure at what they see. This has all come off the back of criticism he took from shareholders at that meeting and he has got the hump at the people who have actually invested their own money in the club/company itself asking questions about performance of their business :shock: Even if you forget about these people being fans for a minute, they are shareholders and maybe have more rights to ask questions than us ordinary fans on the basis that the future of their investments is dependent on how well or badly the club is run and right now it is only the threat of a takeover that his driven the price of their shares up cos it certainly has nothing to do with the players performances.

I agree with you 100% re your comments about silvestre and personally I wouldnt have made those type of comments. It isnt that I think that he is good enough cos I dont but again it is wenger that brought him to the club and I do not blame the player cos he is no longer up to the task. As a rule I do not boo the players (even those like song who I do not like :evil: ) but I will say that I do make an exception for greedybayor - as a financial contributer to the club I believe that I am entitled to see the employees/players put in maximum effort while representing me and the club and this greedy *word censored* clearly does not. Again I would say that the fact that he has at no stage this season made much effort to turn this around suggests poor man management cos surely it is up to wenger and the coaches to kick his arse back into line ? Does wenger think he is above blame for allowing this shit to continue while continually picking the *word censored* ? I certainly dont

Lastly I come to what has been the crux of the matter for me in the last few days and that is his veiled threats to the fans. Yes he has stayed with us for 13 years and yes I am grateful for that and the success he has given us during that time but that does not entitle him to a free pass on the continued fcuk ups by both himself and the board for the remainder of the time he has been at the club. Does the fact that on the two previous occasions madrid wanted him he met their club officials while under contract to us diminish that loyalty arguement even slightly ? I mean it aint any different to going for a cornetto in milan is it ? If he feels that the fans are wrong then come out and say the fans are wrong cos that is his right as it is the right of the fans to complain when they aint happy too. However do not try and play the madrid speculation off us in a bid to get fans back onside cos it shows a total lack of integrity and is something that the likes of the twitcher would do and is something that I would have thought is beneath the likes of wenger.

What wenger fails to realise, and this has not been pointed out yet, is that the criticism coming from the fans is far far less than would be the case if any other manager in the world was in charge. The perception that the man is a gentleman allied to previous successes we have had under his stewardship has allowed him and the players greater latitude for their shortcomings and while I dont feel that he should be grateful for the latitude I do believe that he should be aware of it. Respect is very much a two way street arsene and it would be no harm for you and the players to be more aware of that

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Post by Belfast Boy »

All I can say with any certainty Percy is that since the shareholders meeting AW has went out of the way 2 or 3 times to make clear that it was not the criticism that he found hard to take but the disrespect!

All of this unrests stems from of lack of silverware which Wenger understands, but honestly Steve put yourself in his position he's working on the tightest of budgets, as the manager he must hear the fans groaning at some of his players but what else is supposed to do - join in???

He is also now making it quite clear to the fans several times in the last couple of days that he doesn't have a huge chunk of money but I did notice he chose to use 100M so I do believe he has a sizeable amount, but as we all know he was experimenting and has already done a candid interview about 3 or 4 weeks ago where he admitted that he has made many mistakes!

There isn't a more honest or harder working manager in the game and there was probably one place he was not going to accept open disrespect perceived or not, and that was the shareholders meeting because altho the trophy cabinet is bare their wallets are bulging!
Last edited by Belfast Boy on Sat May 23, 2009 10:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Percy Dalton
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Post by Percy Dalton »

Why is it though Gary that a manager can criticise the fans but the flip of that is not allowed?

There is no doubt he is working on a restricted budget and I fully accept that but what has finance got to do with this?

I would be as critical of Wenger if he had spent huge sums of money poorly. I have very little interest in the finances of our club as us being mere mortals do not know the facts. All I judge on is what I see with my own eyes and hear with my own ears.

I have seen ridiuclous managerial decisions made. The day Eboue got booed was largely Wenger's fault. He choose to bring on an average right back as a substitute and play him left midfield while genuine midfielders went unused for example.

I have seen our manager on several occasions berate the people who chant his name and who ultimately pay his wages. The people who will stick by Arsenal through thick and thin, the heart and soul of the club. Why is Wenger allowed to openly criticise the fans and the fans not allowed to voice their displeasure?

I have heard Wenger make statements about certain players not being able to play in certain positions and then watch them play thatposition all season. I have heard Wenger say judge me in May and then when that judgement comes I hear him say no don't judge me now do it in two years. I have heard Wenger trot out the same "potential" speeches now for several seasons.

I do respect Arsene Wenger but I am also allowed to voice my concerns when I believe that I am being either mislead or short changed. There seems to be some misunderstanding on here that those who dare to question the manager do not respect him and are in fact forming some kind of vendetta against him This is not the case at all.

I think the majority of us would like Wenger to continue if we saw the Arsene Wenger of several seasons ago. Unfortunately he is becoming a victim of his own success but that is the world a football manager lives in at the highest level. He trumpets his own high standards yet spouts of at us when he fails to acheive the very standards he set himself.

Arsene Wenger may well be right to criticise us but he also has to accept that we can vent our frustrations too and openly question his judgement in the same way he does ours.

Respect is earned Gary and while Arsene has earned all our respect he cannot use this as a shield to deflect warranted criticism!

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