How Arsenal have changed.

[RaM]

Badge is shit. Why did it need to be replaced. It's exactly the same design as Melbourne Victory's.... it wasn't even designed exclusively for Arsenal. There was nothing wrong with the old one.

Melbourne Victory. Never, ever, ever associate those bastards with Arsenal.

And yeah, I noticed as soon as the club founded. It founded after we had the crest. Just them trying to imitate...problem is, the badge is easy enough to imitate.

[clockendal]

Interesting points of view on here.

I could go on all day about the changes for better or worse (personally I'd swap my season ticket at the new ground to be back in the clockend any day of the week) but one thing I would be interested to hear is people's opinion on the following:

When players sign for Arsenal do they sign for Arsenal or Arsene Wenger ? It's great that he has a big influence on players etc but I think they are not getting "The Arsenal" put over to them enough. How many players have eulogised about walking through the Marble Halls for the first time ? Do you think they get that now ? Who in the dressing room will tell the new signings (albeit limited) and young players coming through about what it means to play for The Arsenal ? If you listen to any of the players now it's all about AW and what he does for them etc but do they give a shit about the fact that they are playing for us ? I think not..I think sometimes AW has lost sight of the fact that as much as this is his project it is our club and he needs to remeber this - as much as it pains me to say it I think old taggart knows that it is all about Man Utd more so than him and I don't think AW does.

Don't get me wrong he has given us the best footbal we've ever seen some wonderful teams and memories...but I worry for the future and attracting players to the club when AW does decide to jack it in..

apologies if a little garbled..trying to cope with the mother of all hangovers while at work...

[Swale_Gooner1985]

At the end of the day the club needed moving forward and thats exactly what Wenger has done, he has modernised it if you like?

The fact that people are complaining about the new stadium is madness in my opinion, there was no question we had to have a bigger stadium, we are one of Europes top clubs and attract massive support, it just made sense to allow more people to attend the games.

Dont get me wrong, i loved Highbury and have amazing memories of the place, but the new stadium is definately for the best, in terms of better views, better facilities, larger capacity etc...

The badge im not too worried about, i like the new one but also liked the old one so not really an issue, as for the kits, i really dont see why there is always this fuss each year about the kits? As long as our home kit is red and White (which is always is apart from the last season at highbury one) then i dont have a problem with the away shirt changing, i do prefer a yellow one, but im happy to have a blue one, or even white every now and then, as long as it doesnt have a spuds badge on it im not too worried!

Blaming Wenger for the type of fan that attends a football match is just plain silly so im not even going to go into that one.

On balance Wenger has done far more good for this club than he has bad, thats plain to see and is a non starter for any sort of argument

[GallasVoice]

People will wonder why iv'e started this thread, after Arsene Wengers(legend) 13 years at the club, i took myself right back to the beginning just to realise the negative affect he has made on The Arsenal...

Our crest changed from traditional to untraditional...

Our stadium changed from traditonal to untraditional....

Our players used to be gooners at heart (big tony, wrighty, keown ect) now NONE of them are in comparision....

A New generation of poxy quiet fans that weren't there at highbury.....

Stupid Red Kit without proper white sleeves!(AND A WHITE AWAY KIT WITH BLUE SHORTS OMG!!) thats like everton playing in all red! man utd playing in sky blue with white shorts!!!!

I love Arsenal but this is how i feel and it does upset me that wev'e changed our whole culture more than any other team in the last 10 years. I know theres such thing as moving on and making progress, but were a whole different team now. Arsene could have stopped all the above from happening and still be succesful in my opinion.

wow, this argument has so many holes in it its unbelievable.
1. the first point of your argument which ive highlighted, youre saying that our players used to be gooners at heart, but under wenger this isnt the case anymore? firstly, cesc? v.persie? even henry? certainly players who show just how much they love the club, all developed under wenger. secondly, its not wengers fault, its how the modern game is, dont try and pin the blame on wenger. there simply isnt the same loyalty that used to exist from a player to his club, the modern game with ridiculous wages has contributed to that. absolutely nothing to do with wenger that players are being greedy and acting in their best interests.

2. new generation of fans? again, how is this wengers fault? success brings along with it JCL's, what do you want wenger to do, make us shit, get relegated so we have more of the hardcore fans back? again, due to the modern game, this is happening all over the world, at clubs such as man u, liverpool, and chelsea, so how is this wengers fault?

3. the kit, again, is not down to wenger, look no further than nike. im sure there are thousands of man u fans out there absolutely disgusted at their kit, im guessing wengers to blame for that aswell?

Point no.3...are you saying wenger couldn't have affected the change in the arsenal kit? bollox course he could have.

[clockendal]

Dont get me wrong, i loved Highbury and have amazing memories of the place, but the new stadium is definately for the best, in terms of better views, better facilities, larger capacity etc...

Better Facilites...hmm, didn't take 20 minutes to get a pint at half time at Highbury...it's like a car park down there

[digger]

The fact that people are complaining about the new stadium is madness in my opinion, there was no question we had to have a bigger stadium, we are one of Europes top clubs and attract massive support, it just made sense to allow more people to attend the games.

I'm glad we moved to a larger stadium, that was obviously needed. But, the Liverpool stadium (if it ever gets built) was built in consultation with the fans. They will keep "the Kop", each end of the ground will have its own identity. How difficult would it have been to have even kept the names North, Clock, East, West? We don't need orange, blue etc.

AFAIK, the only time the fans were included in "their" stadium was in the naming of the two bridges.

[GallasVoice]

People will wonder why iv'e started this thread, after Arsene Wengers(legend) 13 years at the club, i took myself right back to the beginning just to realise the negative affect he has made on The Arsenal...

Our crest changed from traditional to untraditional...

Our stadium changed from traditonal to untraditional....

Our players used to be gooners at heart (big tony, wrighty, keown ect) now NONE of them are in comparision....

A New generation of poxy quiet fans that weren't there at highbury.....

Stupid Red Kit without proper white sleeves!(AND A WHITE AWAY KIT WITH BLUE SHORTS OMG!!) thats like everton playing in all red! man utd playing in sky blue with white shorts!!!!

I love Arsenal but this is how i feel and it does upset me that wev'e changed our whole culture more than any other team in the last 10 years. I know theres such thing as moving on and making progress, but were a whole different team now. Arsene could have stopped all the above from happening and still be succesful in my opinion.

wow, this argument has so many holes in it its unbelievable.
1. the first point of your argument which ive highlighted, youre saying that our players used to be gooners at heart, but under wenger this isnt the case anymore? firstly, cesc? v.persie? even henry? certainly players who show just how much they love the club, all developed under wenger. secondly, its not wengers fault, its how the modern game is, dont try and pin the blame on wenger. there simply isnt the same loyalty that used to exist from a player to his club, the modern game with ridiculous wages has contributed to that. absolutely nothing to do with wenger that players are being greedy and acting in their best interests.

2. new generation of fans? again, how is this wengers fault? success brings along with it JCL's, what do you want wenger to do, make us shit, get relegated so we have more of the hardcore fans back? again, due to the modern game, this is happening all over the world, at clubs such as man u, liverpool, and chelsea, so how is this wengers fault?

3. the kit, again, is not down to wenger, look no further than nike. im sure there are thousands of man u fans out there absolutely disgusted at their kit, im guessing wengers to blame for that aswell?

Point no.2..wev'e got a new generation of fans because of the ridiculous pricing of everything around the emirates, so yes wenger could have stopped this to.

[Swale_Gooner1985]

Dont get me wrong, i loved Highbury and have amazing memories of the place, but the new stadium is definately for the best, in terms of better views, better facilities, larger capacity etc...

Better Facilites...hmm, didn't take 20 minutes to get a pint at half time at Highbury...it's like a car park down there

Not sure where those two are linked to be quite honest? You could try leaving 5 minutes before half time with all the other 'massive' Arsenal fans who happen to rank getting a burger and a beer higher than watching Arsenal in their priority list on a saturday afternoon?!

[mrgnu1958]

well if ya ever saw me 10 years ago ya wouldnt think it was the same person.
Ill dig out a photo soon for ya..But ill have to scan it 1st.

[clockendal]

What facilities are you on about then ? Having a piss ?

Of course watching the Arsenal is the priority, and in the clockend you could watch the game till the half time whistle and go down and have a pint (or two) with your mates and go over the 1st half again...that's why I don't often bother now as like you pointed out the only way you'll get a beer is going down 5 minutes early

[BT]

Interesting points of view on here.

I could go on all day about the changes for better or worse (personally I'd swap my season ticket at the new ground to be back in the clockend any day of the week) but one thing I would be interested to hear is people's opinion on the following:

When players sign for Arsenal do they sign for Arsenal or Arsene Wenger ? It's great that he has a big influence on players etc but I think they are not getting "The Arsenal" put over to them enough. How many players have eulogised about walking through the Marble Halls for the first time ? Do you think they get that now ? Who in the dressing room will tell the new signings (albeit limited) and young players coming through about what it means to play for The Arsenal ? If you listen to any of the players now it's all about AW and what he does for them etc but do they give a shit about the fact that they are playing for us ? I think not..I think sometimes AW has lost sight of the fact that as much as this is his project it is our club and he needs to remeber this - as much as it pains me to say it I think old taggart knows that it is all about Man Utd more so than him and I don't think AW does.

Don't get me wrong he has given us the best footbal we've ever seen some wonderful teams and memories...but I worry for the future and attracting players to the club when AW does decide to jack it in..

apologies if a little garbled..trying to cope with the mother of all hangovers while at work...

All very good points which I think ring true.

But you could also argue that the likes of Pat Rice, Steve Bould, Liam Brady, Charlie George, Bob Wilson and Martin Keown are still clearly part of the Arsenal scene, if not still employees. They could educate the new players on what it means to be Arsenal men.

I wonder how much is Arsene and how much is symptomatic of football these days. Players arrive in blacked out cars underground with their earphones one, they have PR people and agents surrounding them, and the media renforcing their inflated ideas of themselves. And the players GallasVoice references are English players, already aware of the Arsenal tradition.

That said, Ashley Cole saw the marble halls, was part of a team that included Keown and Parlour and still turned out a *word censored*. Gerrard and Terry and one-men clubs but we know they're susceptible to having their heads turned. Its just the money and fame that comes with the premier era.

The badge I believe was to do with stopping the fake imitations but I agree its shit. But the badge has changes about 5 times in our history so there isnt a definitive one. That said, every time they put the two badges up of the clubs playing on MOTD, i despair.

The kits...no excuses for that. It all comes down to marketing and money.

Personally, I think the biggest joke of all is calling the stadium The E******s. .

[g88ner]

Just a few points, GallasVoice...

"i took myself right back to the beginning just to realise the negative affect he has made on The Arsenal..."

Right, ok... so by "the negative affect he has made on The Arsenal" you mean Wenger?! this should be interesting...

"Our crest changed from traditional to untraditional..."

Why's that Wenger's fault? aren't the board the custodians of the club, and responsible for little things like that??

"Our stadium changed from traditonal to untraditional...."

Again, surely the "custodians" are responsible for making sure the stadium design is inline with tradition?? - yes, Wenger had his say on the players facilities, and maybe on how to get more light to the grass, but changing our stadium from "traditonal to untraditional" really isn't Wenger's job!

"Our players used to be gooners at heart (big tony, wrighty, keown ect) now NONE of them are in comparision...."

True, our English heart has somewhat disappeared.

However, as a small consolation, Wenger has brought us some of the greatest players in our history, like Henry, Fabregas, Vieira, Arshavin, Pires, etc. and the most successful period in our history, too.

You can't always have it all... especially on a limited budget.

"A New generation of poxy quiet fans that weren't there at highbury....."

Ah, yes.... Highbury. What a caldron of noise that was. Remind me... why was it known as "Highbury the Library again"?

Anyway, fans are quiet from Old Trafford, to Anfield, to Arsenal. Hillsbrough played a huge part in that, as has the formation of the Premier League.

Also, this new breed of fans is a consequence of success... so the only way you can blame Wenger, is by arguing that by bringing us the most successful period in the clubs history, he has unearthed more fans and JCL's....

now, what are you suggesting he should have done? - won less trophies and played boring football so we wouldn't need a new stadium or attract new fans?

And again, if your gripe is with the corporates and stadium design... then perhaps you should be pointing your finger as the board and NOT the guy whose job is put a winning team on the pitch!

"Stupid Red Kit without proper white sleeves!(AND A WHITE AWAY KIT WITH BLUE SHORTS OMG!!) thats like everton playing in all red! man utd playing in sky blue with white shorts!!!!"

Wenger isn't (and should NEVER be!) responsible for deciding how white our sleevs are!!

Not his jbo, sorry.

"Arsene could have stopped all the above from happening and still be succesful in my opinion."

Riight... ok. So, not only should Wenger be responsible for bringing success on the pitch, but he should also be responsible for making sure our crest is traditional, our stadium is loud, and that our sleeves are white???!

[clockendal]

Interesting points of view on here.

I could go on all day about the changes for better or worse (personally I'd swap my season ticket at the new ground to be back in the clockend any day of the week) but one thing I would be interested to hear is people's opinion on the following:

When players sign for Arsenal do they sign for Arsenal or Arsene Wenger ? It's great that he has a big influence on players etc but I think they are not getting "The Arsenal" put over to them enough. How many players have eulogised about walking through the Marble Halls for the first time ? Do you think they get that now ? Who in the dressing room will tell the new signings (albeit limited) and young players coming through about what it means to play for The Arsenal ? If you listen to any of the players now it's all about AW and what he does for them etc but do they give a shit about the fact that they are playing for us ? I think not..I think sometimes AW has lost sight of the fact that as much as this is his project it is our club and he needs to remeber this - as much as it pains me to say it I think old taggart knows that it is all about Man Utd more so than him and I don't think AW does.

Don't get me wrong he has given us the best footbal we've ever seen some wonderful teams and memories...but I worry for the future and attracting players to the club when AW does decide to jack it in..

apologies if a little garbled..trying to cope with the mother of all hangovers while at work...

All very good points which I think ring true.

But you could also argue that the likes of Pat Rice, Steve Bould, Liam Brady, Charlie George, Bob Wilson and Martin Keown are still clearly part of the Arsenal scene, if not still employees. They could educate the new players on what it means to be Arsenal men.

I wonder how much is Arsene and how much is symptomatic of football these days. Players arrive in blacked out cars underground with their earphones one, they have PR people and agents surrounding them, and the media renforcing their inflated ideas of themselves. And the players GallasVoice references are English players, already aware of the Arsenal tradition.

That said, Ashley Cole saw the marble halls, was part of a team that included Keown and Parlour and still turned out a c**t. Gerrard and Terry and one-men clubs but we know they're susceptible to having their heads turned. Its just the money and fame that comes with the premier era.

The badge I believe was to do with stopping the fake imitations but I agree its shit. But the badge has changes about 5 times in our history so there isnt a definitive one. That said, every time they put the two badges up of the clubs playing on MOTD, i despair.

The kits...no excuses for that. It all comes down to marketing and money.

Personally, I think the biggest joke of all is calling the stadium The E******s. .

Fair enough, you're right in that it is the modern game so not totally AW's fault and perhaps more do to with the fact that's the way it is now.

And yes for sure it's good that we have those people in and around the club to keep the spirit there..

and as for Cashley ..he's all that is wrong with not just football but modern society...(wait that's getting deep...too hungover for that)

[hadareud]

excellent post g88ner.

Not enough bolding and captitals though

[Number 5]

Bringing it back to the badge/crest issue.

Didn't that change because there was no copyright on the old one, or it ran out or something?

I vaguely recall the Club shutting down some stallholder who was using the old badge on merchandise.

Wankers.