As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
Gunnersaurus wrote:I say Theo aswell, if he wasn't English then nothing would be said.
Ain't that the truth - he's been far more erratic than Diaby and yet he seems to be the darling of the Concrete Bowl
Really? As my mate hadareud would say, the statistics don't seem to support that assertion and show that even with all his injuries and lack of complete 90 minutes played, Theo has been more productive than Diaby.
Gunnersaurus wrote:I say Theo aswell, if he wasn't English then nothing would be said.
Ain't that the truth - he's been far more erratic than Diaby and yet he seems to be the darling of the Concrete Bowl
Really? As my mate hadareud would say, the statistics don't seem to support that assertion and show that even with all his injuries and lack of complete 90 minutes played, Theo has been more productive than Diaby.
Diaby: Appearances 111 Goals 13 Assists 7
Walcott: Appearances 131 Goals 20 Assists 17
So as a player who plays solely in attacking positions he has scored 7 more goals in 20 more appearances than someone who often plays in a withdrawn midfield role. I think Hadareud's status as the king of stats might be safe for a while
So exactly how many times has Diaby played in the 'withdrawn role' then smart-arse? You implied that Theo was a waste of time and that Diaby has been more productive. I proved he hasn't been!!
I Hate Hleb wrote:So exactly how many times has Diaby played in the 'withdrawn role' then smart-arse? You implied that Theo was a waste of time and that Diaby has been more productive. I proved he hasn't been!!
Pretty much every appearance this season and most of the last two seasons stuck out wide. I think your own stats on Theo prove to me that he isn't anywhere near as effective as people give him credit for - thanks for that
augie wrote:Has to be said that steve o makes a good arguement for theo to win this "award" tho
Maybe, but Theo has already been more productive in the limited games he's actually managed to play in, than either Diaby or Eboue have in the copious ones they've been selected for!!
Copious...... were you watching that Sally Ann Bowman Psychic detective thing last night by any chance IHH..
As for the question.. i personally over rate Clichy.. because i still think of him as being as capable as he looked in the 2007/8 season.. yet for 18 months now he has been even on a good day no better than average and far too often a liability...i had hoped that last season was just a blip and he would get back to the 2007/8 Clichy.. but in almost every game he's played this season it's been painful watching how bad he has become..
As for who others over rate.... there are some on here that have a real soft spot for mediocrity and have a habit of elevating in the extreme anything our players that fit into that category do and Song is without a doubt their blue eyed boy...
Last edited by Bergkamp-Genius on Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
goonermc wrote:Vermaelan, lauded by most yet the Arsenal have made their worst defensive start to a season for 30 odd years.
no one can doubt that vermaelen is a good defender. the problem with our defence is not our players but how they are coached, most of the goals we concede are from set pieces and yet wenger does not see defending set pieces as a priority at training.
although he is certainly an excellent coach when it comes to the attacking side of the game wenger has always a blind spot when it comes to the defence. he was fortunate in inheriting the back 4 from george graham, they had been playing together for so long and were so well drilled that that they could be left to get on with organising themselves. when younger players came in they could take advantage of the experience of those of the legendary back 4 that were left at the club, and fit into that way of playing.
it is now 5 years since Keown left, we can't just expect the defence to coach itself anymore, a large majority of our goals conceded this season have been due to a general lack of organisation in the defence as opposed to individual blunders (although these do admittedly stick in the mind more).
last season every single game i watched our defence back off attackers coming into the penalty area, i genuinely wondered if at times if we were actually going to let them walk it over the goal line without making a fucking tackle. Reluctance to make a tackle is not an accusation you can level at Vermaelen, and the other players seem to be following his example. For that alone he is worth his transfer fee.
goonermc wrote:Vermaelan, lauded by most yet the Arsenal have made their worst defensive start to a season for 30 odd years.
no one can doubt that vermaelen is a good defender. the problem with our defence is not our players but how they are coached, most of the goals we concede are from set pieces and yet wenger does not see defending set pieces as a priority at training.
although he is certainly an excellent coach when it comes to the attacking side of the game wenger has always a blind spot when it comes to the defence. he was fortunate in inheriting the back 4 from george graham, they had been playing together for so long and were so well drilled that that they could be left to get on with organising themselves. when younger players came in they could take advantage of the experience of those of the legendary back 4 that were left at the club, and fit into that way of playing.
it is now 5 years since Keown left, we can't just expect the defence to coach itself anymore, a large majority of our goals conceded this season have been due to a general lack of organisation in the defence as opposed to individual blunders (although these do admittedly stick in the mind more).
last season every single game i watched our defence back off attackers coming into the penalty area, i genuinely wondered if at times if we were actually going to let them walk it over the goal line without making a fucking tackle. Reluctance to make a tackle is not an accusation you can level at Vermaelen, and the other players seem to be following his example. For that alone he is worth his transfer fee.
I agree UFG, it's not all Vermealan's fault that we can't defend set-pieces and defending should start with the forwards closing down, it's just at the moment we need to score 2 or 3 goals to win a match which isn't sustainable for any team. Gooners keep telling me what a great signing Vemaelan is but at the end of the day he's been signed as a defender first and foremost and we've made our worst start at the back for decades.
/\ /\ /\ Overall I still think TV5’s been a quality addition but as much as he’s brought some of the steel & determination we needed he does have a tendency to dive in a bit too often, almost as though he’s trying to do too much at times. And as much as I love the borderline nutter attitude of it what we are still desperately short of at the back is someone with a calming authority.
Too much of our defending has the air of last-ditch desperation, even when we’re not in a particularly bad position. We dive in when we should jockey, we make rash clearances that end up being sliced out for a corner or skied more upwards than outwards, etc. & as a result all that happens is it gives the opposition the belief they can get something & whips up their crowd, who in turn give their team even more belief & before you know it we’re under the cosh when one solid, composed piece of defending would have nipped the whole thing in the bud.
No reason why he cant add that to his game with a bit of minor refinement. But he maybe just needs someone to have a word & tell him he doesn’t have to be Action Jackson Superdefender every time. He just needs to calm down a bit. But not too much!
I Hate Hleb wrote:So exactly how many times has Diaby played in the 'withdrawn role' then smart-arse? You implied that Theo was a waste of time and that Diaby has been more productive. I proved he hasn't been!!
Pretty much every appearance this season and most of the last two seasons stuck out wide. I think your own stats on Theo prove to me that he isn't anywhere near as effective as people give him credit for - thanks for that
Really? So where have Song and Denilson been playing all this time then? No wonder we conceed so much!! And as for Theo playing in his proper position, hasn't one of the complaints made about him been that he isn't a winger? Indeed, even the manager claims as much. Theo has played on both flanks for the vast majority of his Arsenal appearences (including many as sub) and with all his faults - and it's clear he does have lots - has still been more productive than Diaby. Not opinion - fact!!
Let's get things straight - there's no disagreement with the fact that Theo still has a lot to prove to and has yet to live up to the hype. But the same is also true of Diaby. I was a big fan of his at first but have grown increasing frustrated with the way he too frequently plays below par - doing the wrong thing at the wrong time - and his inability to produce the talent he undoubtedly has on a more consistant basis.
Now it's clear that the major injury he suffered and Wenger's tendency to play him all over the place, hasn't helped him in his endeavours to show us the real Diaby. However, those two factors could just as easily apply to Walcott. It certainly doesn't excuse the Frenchman's propensity to hang on to the ball too long; miss-place his passes so often; his ability to jump and head the ball like a school-girl, and his lack of physical fight!!
Last edited by I Hate Hleb on Tue Oct 27, 2009 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I agree UFG, it's not all Vermealan's fault that we can't defend set-pieces and defending should start with the forwards closing down, it's just at the moment we need to score 2 or 3 goals to win a match which isn't sustainable for any team. Gooners keep telling me what a great signing Vemaelan is but at the end of the day he's been signed as a defender first and foremost and we've made our worst start at the back for decades.
correlation isn't the same thing as causation. in my opinion our start this season would have been worse if we hadn't signed him. that isn't to say he doesn't have some flaws, he gets forward too often for my liking, but he's clearly a good defender.
i don't think we have actually have any bad players in our first choice back 4, with the right coaching i think we could have a very tight defence. the sad thing is that wenger will fail to address the issue and that no matter who he signs we will always have a defence that is less than the sum of it's parts.
Last edited by U.F.G Anfield '89 on Tue Oct 27, 2009 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1 clichy
2 song
3 diaby
4 sagna
5 bendtner you could keep on going with the many players we have that are overhyped, maybe not bendtner he is never over hyped because eveyone sees he is shite except wenger, but i just put him in cuz i cant stand the dick
FOXYARSENAL wrote:1 clichy
2 song
3 diaby
4 sagna
5 bendtner you could keep on going with the many players we have that are overhyped, maybe not bendtner he is never over hyped because eveyone sees he is shite except wenger, but i just put him in cuz i cant stand the dick
I'd say the media overrate Clichy, Van Persie, Arshavin and Theo... not that they're bad players, mind.
Example...
I was watching a link to the West Ham game, and when Arshavin played a loose pass, the commentator said "you don't see that very often from Arshavin"... to which I responded, "yes you fucking do... all the time, in fact"
Arshavin is a damn fine player, but he probably loses the ball/plays sloppy passes more than any other player (aong with Diaby... oh, and Eboue )
g88ner wrote:I'd say the media overrate Clichy, Van Persie, Arshavin and Theo... not that they're bad players, mind.
Example...
I was watching a link to the West Ham game, and when Arshavin played a loose pass, the commentator said "you don't see that very often from Arshavin"... to which I responded, "yes you fucking do... all the time, in fact"
Arshavin is a damn fine player, but he probably loses the ball/plays sloppy passes more than any other player (aong with Diaby)
As my mate hadareud would say, the statistics don't seem to support that assertion and show that even with all his injuries and lack of complete 90 minutes played, Theo has been more productive than Diaby.
You implied that Theo was a waste of time and that Diaby has been more productive. I proved he hasn't been!! 
