Gaza's "aid" ships - Any question will be answered

[DanielD]

I didn't ask you to comment on the larger picture of the conflict, just on the Turkish ships saga. That's why I didn't comment on your other "notes" (Israel killing innocent women and children, bombing hospital, schools, etc, which I think is a lie).

You threw in some "bold" statement, I would like to see what you make of these statements after you saw the pictures from the scene.

[Cockerill's chin]

Although I understand I am a product of my culture, DB10, I am not dismissive of the British atrocities committed over history and more recently.

I view innocent lives as equal whatever their nationality or place in history. My views are guided more by a moral compass rather than my passport.

I don't mean the above as pompous as it reads. I feel that I don't have to justify the stance taken by the British over history because I would never have defended it. I have actively voiced my opposition to the waste of British/Iraq/Afghan lives in the current wars. That does not mean I am a pacifist. There should have been UN intervention in Africa over the last two decades. ****** Leone and the 3.6 million who have died in Congo since 1998 are stains on an international conscience.

Regarding the flotilla, not that it is relevant (but to dismiss any notion of fundamentalism), but there were several Briton charity workers on that ship; including one young lady from Oldham who has carried out charitable work across the globe, as well as here in the UK. If people on here want to believe that a group of humanitarian workers armed with clubs launched a massive attack on Israeli special ops armed with M4A1s and Trijicon ACOG then so be it.

This was international waters. Unless we include kitchen knives there were no weapons on board. I know Quartz has views as passionate as my own. I know his and Daniels' views are as valid as my own. Regarding locking the thread, there will be no insults.

[DanielD]

Regarding the flotilla, not that it is relevant (but to dismiss any notion of fundamentalism), but there were several Briton charity workers on that ship; including one young lady from Oldham who has carried out charitable work across the globe, as well as here in the UK. If people on here want to believe that a group of humanitarian workers armed with clubs launched a massive attack on Israeli special ops armed with M4A1s and Trijicon ACOG then so be it.

Look. I've not said everyone on these ships are liars that are all about the propaganda, but I'm sure that lady wasn't among the people who brutally attacked the Israeli soldiers, and therefore she wasn't hurt. You have to accept the fact that some people on these ships were there to provoke an diplomatic chaos to Israel, unfortunately, it worked for them.

[flash gunner]

Regarding the flotilla, not that it is relevant (but to dismiss any notion of fundamentalism), but there were several Briton charity workers on that ship; including one young lady from Oldham who has carried out charitable work across the globe, as well as here in the UK. If people on here want to believe that a group of humanitarian workers armed with clubs launched a massive attack on Israeli special ops armed with M4A1s and Trijicon ACOG then so be it.

Look. I've not said everyone on these ships are liars that are all about the propaganda, but I'm sure that lady wasn't among the people who brutally attacked the Israeli soldiers, and therefore she wasn't hurt. You have to accept the fact that some people on these ships were there to provoke an diplomatic chaos to Israel, unfortunately, it worked for them.

You could look at it too . . . If the Israeli soldiers hadnt boarded a ship sailing under a Turkish flag in international waters then this whole incident wouldnt have happened either

[marcengels]

A thread deserving of locking if ever was one.

Don't agree, mate.

It's in the basement and people who choose to post on this thread (or any other thread for that matter) are welcome to do so... if it's not your cup of tea, just ignore it. Simple

I know it's almost guaranteed to cause arguments as it's obviously a sensitive and passionate issue for some, but I'd like to see it remain unlocked - although, experience suggests that won't be the case once the minority start throwing unsults, which is a shame for those who are capable of debating sensibly

All true of course g88ner. Mr opinion is that these things leave a long-lasting bad taste in the mouth that inform other discussions and arguements. In addition, a rational discussion is not possible, as the base for one doesn't exist.

[goonersid]

Regarding the flotilla, not that it is relevant (but to dismiss any notion of fundamentalism), but there were several Briton charity workers on that ship; including one young lady from Oldham who has carried out charitable work across the globe, as well as here in the UK. If people on here want to believe that a group of humanitarian workers armed with clubs launched a massive attack on Israeli special ops armed with M4A1s and Trijicon ACOG then so be it.

Look. I've not said everyone on these ships are liars that are all about the propaganda, but I'm sure that lady wasn't among the people who brutally attacked the Israeli soldiers, and therefore she wasn't hurt. You have to accept the fact that some people on these ships were there to provoke an diplomatic chaos to Israel, unfortunately, it worked for them.

You could look at it too . . . If the Israeli soldiers hadnt boarded a ship sailing under a Turkish flag in international waters then this whole incident wouldnt have happened either

I think as with all Israeli attrocities, they will attempt to justify their actions, and direct the blame elsewhere.
As usual the US and Britain will fail to take any kind of action against them. And we all know why, don't we.

[RoscommonGooner]

This is the only post that I will make on this thread.

Fuck me.. WHY would they not go to the Ashdod port than and get the food to Gaza? WHY would they attack the soldiers boarding the ship?

It's not a bloody humanitarian mission, it's a cheap propaganda trick that worked, if you look at the comments in the world.

I'll bet my house Hamas are celebrating right now!

Have a bit of manners Daniel, people lost their lives on that boat and you have the cheek to call it a "cheap propaganda trick". On of the most disgusting posts ever on this forum!

[DanielD]

Regarding the flotilla, not that it is relevant (but to dismiss any notion of fundamentalism), but there were several Briton charity workers on that ship; including one young lady from Oldham who has carried out charitable work across the globe, as well as here in the UK. If people on here want to believe that a group of humanitarian workers armed with clubs launched a massive attack on Israeli special ops armed with M4A1s and Trijicon ACOG then so be it.

Look. I've not said everyone on these ships are liars that are all about the propaganda, but I'm sure that lady wasn't among the people who brutally attacked the Israeli soldiers, and therefore she wasn't hurt. You have to accept the fact that some people on these ships were there to provoke an diplomatic chaos to Israel, unfortunately, it worked for them.

You could look at it too . . . If the Israeli soldiers hadnt boarded a ship sailing under a Turkish flag in international waters then this whole incident wouldn't have happened either

If they would've boarded the ship in Gaza, it would've caused further damage because you would get the Hamas navy and people on shore flaming up a fire, which is already big enough.

I think as with all Israeli attrocities, they will attempt to justify their actions, and direct the blame elsewhere.
As usual the US and Britain will fail to take any kind of action against them. And we all know why, don't we.

Cheap claims with no backing. Do you really know what happened, after throwing such claims in the air? Can you tell me what Israel has done so wrong yesterday?

[flash gunner]

Regarding the flotilla, not that it is relevant (but to dismiss any notion of fundamentalism), but there were several Briton charity workers on that ship; including one young lady from Oldham who has carried out charitable work across the globe, as well as here in the UK. If people on here want to believe that a group of humanitarian workers armed with clubs launched a massive attack on Israeli special ops armed with M4A1s and Trijicon ACOG then so be it.

Look. I've not said everyone on these ships are liars that are all about the propaganda, but I'm sure that lady wasn't among the people who brutally attacked the Israeli soldiers, and therefore she wasn't hurt. You have to accept the fact that some people on these ships were there to provoke an diplomatic chaos to Israel, unfortunately, it worked for them.

You could look at it too . . . If the Israeli soldiers hadnt boarded a ship sailing under a Turkish flag in international waters then this whole incident wouldn't have happened either

If they would've boarded the ship in Gaza, it would've caused further damage because you would get the Hamas navy and people on shore flaming up a fire, which is already big enough.

I think as with all Israeli attrocities, they will attempt to justify their actions, and direct the blame elsewhere.
As usual the US and Britain will fail to take any kind of action against them. And we all know why, don't we.

Cheap claims with no backing. Do you really know what happened, after throwing such claims in the air? Can you tell me what Israel has done so wrong yesterday?

This last statement proves its impossible to have a debate on this subject if you really cant see anything wrong with what happened then its pointless carrying on

[goonersid]

Regarding the flotilla, not that it is relevant (but to dismiss any notion of fundamentalism), but there were several Briton charity workers on that ship; including one young lady from Oldham who has carried out charitable work across the globe, as well as here in the UK. If people on here want to believe that a group of humanitarian workers armed with clubs launched a massive attack on Israeli special ops armed with M4A1s and Trijicon ACOG then so be it.

Look. I've not said everyone on these ships are liars that are all about the propaganda, but I'm sure that lady wasn't among the people who brutally attacked the Israeli soldiers, and therefore she wasn't hurt. You have to accept the fact that some people on these ships were there to provoke an diplomatic chaos to Israel, unfortunately, it worked for them.

You could look at it too . . . If the Israeli soldiers hadnt boarded a ship sailing under a Turkish flag in international waters then this whole incident wouldn't have happened either

If they would've boarded the ship in Gaza, it would've caused further damage because you would get the Hamas navy and people on shore flaming up a fire, which is already big enough.

I think as with all Israeli attrocities, they will attempt to justify their actions, and direct the blame elsewhere.
As usual the US and Britain will fail to take any kind of action against them. And we all know why, don't we.

Cheap claims with no backing. Do you really know what happened, after throwing such claims in the air? Can you tell me what Israel has done so wrong yesterday?

You're right Daniel, no harm done. And Semitic money and influence, both here and in the states will try to make sure everyone knows it.
Once again Israel has shown a blatant disregard for international law and human rights. This time however it has involved people from Western Europe, thus your own need to justify or defend the indefensible. It doesn't wash, and I think this latest action will show Israel for the terrorist machine it really is.

[DanielD]

Regarding the flotilla, not that it is relevant (but to dismiss any notion of fundamentalism), but there were several Briton charity workers on that ship; including one young lady from Oldham who has carried out charitable work across the globe, as well as here in the UK. If people on here want to believe that a group of humanitarian workers armed with clubs launched a massive attack on Israeli special ops armed with M4A1s and Trijicon ACOG then so be it.

Look. I've not said everyone on these ships are liars that are all about the propaganda, but I'm sure that lady wasn't among the people who brutally attacked the Israeli soldiers, and therefore she wasn't hurt. You have to accept the fact that some people on these ships were there to provoke an diplomatic chaos to Israel, unfortunately, it worked for them.

You could look at it too . . . If the Israeli soldiers hadnt boarded a ship sailing under a Turkish flag in international waters then this whole incident wouldn't have happened either

If they would've boarded the ship in Gaza, it would've caused further damage because you would get the Hamas navy and people on shore flaming up a fire, which is already big enough.

I think as with all Israeli attrocities, they will attempt to justify their actions, and direct the blame elsewhere.
As usual the US and Britain will fail to take any kind of action against them. And we all know why, don't we.

Cheap claims with no backing. Do you really know what happened, after throwing such claims in the air? Can you tell me what Israel has done so wrong yesterday?

You're right Daniel, no harm done. And Semitic money and influence, both here and in the states will try to make sure everyone knows it.
Once again Israel has shown a blatant disregard for international law and human rights. This time however it has involved people from Western Europe, thus your own need to justify or defend the indefensible. It doesn't wash, and I think this latest action will show Israel for the terrorist machine it really is.

I didn't say no harm's done. I only said we did what we have to do.

How did we break the international law (are you an international lawyer?), and how did we "disregard" human rights in this instance (let's keep it to the praticular case of the "aid" ships)? I would love if you go into more specific details.

[flash gunner]

Look. I've not said everyone on these ships are liars that are all about the propaganda, but I'm sure that lady wasn't among the people who brutally attacked the Israeli soldiers, and therefore she wasn't hurt. You have to accept the fact that some people on these ships were there to provoke an diplomatic chaos to Israel, unfortunately, it worked for them.

You could look at it too . . . If the Israeli soldiers hadnt boarded a ship sailing under a Turkish flag in international waters then this whole incident wouldn't have happened either

If they would've boarded the ship in Gaza, it would've caused further damage because you would get the Hamas navy and people on shore flaming up a fire, which is already big enough.

I think as with all Israeli attrocities, they will attempt to justify their actions, and direct the blame elsewhere.
As usual the US and Britain will fail to take any kind of action against them. And we all know why, don't we.

Cheap claims with no backing. Do you really know what happened, after throwing such claims in the air? Can you tell me what Israel has done so wrong yesterday?

You're right Daniel, no harm done. And Semitic money and influence, both here and in the states will try to make sure everyone knows it.
Once again Israel has shown a blatant disregard for international law and human rights. This time however it has involved people from Western Europe, thus your own need to justify or defend the indefensible. It doesn't wash, and I think this latest action will show Israel for the terrorist machine it really is.

I didn't say no harm's done. I only said we did what we have to do.

How did we break the international law (are you an international lawyer?), and how did we "disregard" human rights in this instance (let's keep it to the praticular case of the "aid" ships)? I would love if you go into more specific details.

By boarding a ship you had NO right to board by any chance? Let alone murdering people on board this ship

[goonersid]

Look. I've not said everyone on these ships are liars that are all about the propaganda, but I'm sure that lady wasn't among the people who brutally attacked the Israeli soldiers, and therefore she wasn't hurt. You have to accept the fact that some people on these ships were there to provoke an diplomatic chaos to Israel, unfortunately, it worked for them.

You could look at it too . . . If the Israeli soldiers hadnt boarded a ship sailing under a Turkish flag in international waters then this whole incident wouldn't have happened either

If they would've boarded the ship in Gaza, it would've caused further damage because you would get the Hamas navy and people on shore flaming up a fire, which is already big enough.

I think as with all Israeli attrocities, they will attempt to justify their actions, and direct the blame elsewhere.
As usual the US and Britain will fail to take any kind of action against them. And we all know why, don't we.

Cheap claims with no backing. Do you really know what happened, after throwing such claims in the air? Can you tell me what Israel has done so wrong yesterday?

You're right Daniel, no harm done. And Semitic money and influence, both here and in the states will try to make sure everyone knows it.
Once again Israel has shown a blatant disregard for international law and human rights. This time however it has involved people from Western Europe, thus your own need to justify or defend the indefensible. It doesn't wash, and I think this latest action will show Israel for the terrorist machine it really is.

I didn't say no harm's done. I only said we did what we have to do.

How did we break the international law (are you an international lawyer?), and how did we "disregard" human rights in this instance (let's keep it to the praticular case of the "aid" ships)? I would love if you go into more specific details.

Daniel, I think you should change the title of this thread, from "any questions will be answered" to "any other opinions will be dismissed"
And I think Flash has covered the "more specific details" requested. On that note I will leave you to argue your case with any one else who dares to doubt the credibility of your country.

[WengerKnows]

Firstly i also feel this thread should be locked up . Its obvious the conversation is heating up and the last thing we need is more forum wars ( lets leave it to realists vs rose tinters or clique vs outsiders ) .

Secondly if this topic is too remain open i dont think DanielD's request to stick to this particular incident is reasonable . The reasons behind the IDF wanting to search the vessel and the reasons for the people on the ship to deliver aid ( get media coverage about the blockade etc ) cannot be ignored . Those reasons are interlinked with the whole conflict and its impossible to discuss this incident in isolation .

[DB10GOONER]

Britain could be seen to have played Isreal's role as the invader and certain groups in Ireland the palestinian role as the self-viewed freedom fighters (groups that were viewed EXACTLY the same way by the British and Irish governments as the Palestinians are by Isreal).

just how can you compare the two we both grew up with the british army in the north but for the life of me i cant ever remember the british army bombing schools,shooting innocent woman and children, planes dropping bombs and not caring where or who they hurt, bombing republican parts of belfast ,derry etc and not remember ever a humanitarian blockade stopping medical supplies going across the border .

I take your point John, and I don't want to get too involved in this one for obvious reasons, but you must remember that the SAS organised, payed and armed death squads in NI for over ten years. They also trained and supplied the terrorists that bombed Dublin in 1974.

My point was that to most people outside the NI conflict there were just the terrorists and the British government. Two extremes of terror and civility. But if we were living on the Falls Road in the 1970s our view would be dictated by the graphic reality of the situation. A person's view of who is the "terrorist" is dictated subjectively not objectively if they live in that environment.

I'm not for a minute condoning what the Isreali commandos did nor am I condoning what the people on the ship did. I wasn't there and to be honest we will hear two very diferent versions of that story until the end of time.

My other point was that no side in ANY conflict has the moral high ground when it comes to attrocities. By it's very nature, war (of any type) leads to barbaric acts by some of the participants and on both sides.

I just find it irritates me (particularly) in Dublin when we get a load of spoilt middle class students (not all, but alot of them) outside the Isreali embassy and they haven't got a scooby about the facts of the situation, but still persist aggressively with their one sided, blinkered mantra.

And the fact they are all called wanky names like Ronan, Lorcan, Fin and Julie-Ann pisses me off too!! Southsider tossers!!