Cesc Subregas

marcengels · Post by **marcengels** » Mon Jun 21, 2010 11:26 pm

g88ner wrote:
euphoricone wrote:This is with iniesta injured. So much for ' one of the best midfielders in the world'.
Of course Cesc is one of the best midfielders in the world; you either don't watch Arsenal much or you're just upset because he might be leaving, so you're lashing out. I think you need to get a grip.

Quite right g88ner. Some people just need to take a deep breath, calm down and see things clearly.

northbankbren · Post by **northbankbren** » Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:54 am

MM99 wrote:
northbankbren wrote:
augie wrote:If cesc goes then we should remember the good times :
Good times

when were they?
GOOD MOMENTS YES BUT GOOD TIMES??????

His goal against Juventus? Good Goal, and was great at the time, A great moment in the history of Arsenal? not in the top 500 at least. 4 Fulham players have done it this season alone.

His goal against AC Milan?For me this was the last great TEAM performance, he was amazing it was an amazing goal...this is his crowning/greatest moment at Arsenal...but in the history of the club what did it lead to?

Breaking into the team and setting the record at the time for the youngest player?Brilliant acheivement and proves he has a natural talent to be picked at such an age.but its not a record.

Outstanding passes over the defence which contributed to half of Adebayor's goals in his best season?And what did it all lead to?.....great?

Constantly providing passes that cut through the opposition defence?
Yep, that because he's a of the mold always looking for a quick attack pass, and is brilliant at doing it.

Becoming Captain at such an age and not faltering under the pressure and instead showing immense desire and passion to win things with us?Yes to win things....but not at our club clearly!!!!! The fact is yes its a great honour to be given the captancy at such a young age, but one of out MAJOR problems over recent years is lack of leadership in the team. Cesc like Henry and Gallas was given the captaincy as a gesture, a please stay here/stick with me gesture by the manager, everyone knows this. He is not a captain. He does not have the experiance or attittude at the moment to be a captain, being the best player doesnt make you a captain. I never think he should have been given it and think Toure should have been given the armband ahead of both fabs and gallas at the time.

So please dont post rubbish. Rubbish me?

I would like a quote on the fabregas matter of me talking rubbish.

Too many people jump on any anti-fabs quote as though they were calling him shit.

Where have i ever said Fabs is a bad player....he's our best player. But if he leaves us now.....would he really be in the top 50 Arsenal players for their acheivments at our club?

...and He wants to leave....so where is the fighting spirit that we see from so many in our history....the first real genuine sign of trouble and he bails.....so GREAT

Look back at my post and I have mentioned this many times.....people talk about him like there is a massive list of games where he has been the shining light and turned a really important game around with a moment of natural ability....the list just isnt long as people go on about, and all the seasons faded into nothing. He's won and FA cup winners medal......and......my post arent rubbish...our "great" CAPTAIN wanting to go to the easy life in catalan is rubbish.

Post by **DB10GOONER** » Tue Jun 22, 2010 6:34 am

Good post, Bren. Cesc is a great player but in the long history of our club he has achieved very little. It's a shame that he came into the side just at the tail end of the greatest side we've ever had with THBW14, DB10, Paddy, Bob, Freddie etc. It's a hell of an act to follow! And playing surrounded by shite like Diaby, Denilson, Eboue, Vela, (post-injury) Eddie, Bendtner, Tweety etc hasn't helped him either.

If he leaves now before winning something big, then 20 years from now Cesc will be a footnote in the club's history - no more.

And that would be a shame because he IS one of the best midfielders in the world in his position. Anyone that says he isn't, simply either has not watched him or does not understand football at all.

Red107 · Post by **Red107** » Tue Jun 22, 2010 7:53 am

I'm appreciating Cesc's new rugged look.

DanielD · Post by **DanielD** » Tue Jun 22, 2010 8:02 am

His goal against Juventus? Good Goal, and was great at the time, A great moment in the history of Arsenal? not in the top 500 at least. 4 Fulham players have done it this season alone.

His goal against AC Milan?For me this was the last great TEAM performance, he was amazing it was an amazing goal...this is his crowning/greatest moment at Arsenal...but in the history of the club what did it lead to?

Are you talking about Thierry's performance at the San Siro in the same "passion"?

This season Juventus will not be in europe, can you really compare it to team we've played against?

marcengels · Post by **marcengels** » Tue Jun 22, 2010 8:08 am

DB10GOONER wrote:Good post, Bren. Cesc is a great player but in the long history of our club he has achieved very little. It's a shame that he came into the side just at the tail end of the greatest side we've ever had with THBW14, DB10, Paddy, Bob, Freddie etc. It's a hell of an act to follow! And playing surrounded by shite like Diaby, Denilson, Eboue, Vela, (post-injury) Eddie, Bendtner, Tweety etc hasn't helped him either.

If he leaves now before winning something big, then 20 years from now Cesc will be a footnote in the club's history - no more.

And that would be a shame because he IS one of the best midfielders in the world in his position. Anyone that says he isn't, simply either has not watched him or does not understand football at all.

While I respect what bren says

, I think that his thesis is based upon what Cesc has achieved - and is using team achievements to measure this. I think that this is therefore unreasonable to say the least and by any measure, his performances with some sub-standard shite alongside him, have been of great quality.

If you were to apply a handicap for what Cesc has had to play with compared to say Henry, then there "achievements" would be alot closer than simply appears through what medals they have - something which is dependant on the whole team.

Do I think Cesc is up there yet with Henry, Bergkamp? No. But these arguments about his leadership, great games, influence, "bailing" really are clutching at a very slight straw - very weakly

DanielD · Post by **DanielD** » Tue Jun 22, 2010 8:38 am

Just so you know, Casillas girlfriend:

Post by **DB10GOONER** » Tue Jun 22, 2010 8:50 am

marcengels wrote:
DB10GOONER wrote:Good post, Bren. Cesc is a great player but in the long history of our club he has achieved very little. It's a shame that he came into the side just at the tail end of the greatest side we've ever had with THBW14, DB10, Paddy, Bob, Freddie etc. It's a hell of an act to follow! And playing surrounded by shite like Diaby, Denilson, Eboue, Vela, (post-injury) Eddie, Bendtner, Tweety etc hasn't helped him either.

If he leaves now before winning something big, then 20 years from now Cesc will be a footnote in the club's history - no more.

And that would be a shame because he IS one of the best midfielders in the world in his position. Anyone that says he isn't, simply either has not watched him or does not understand football at all.
While I respect what bren says , I think that his thesis is based upon what Cesc has achieved - and is using team achievements to measure this. I think that this is therefore unreasonable to say the least and by any measure, his performances with some sub-standard shite alongside him, have been of great quality.

If you were to apply a handicap for what Cesc has had to play with compared to say Henry, then there "achievements" would be alot closer than simply appears through what medals they have - something which is dependant on the whole team.

Do I think Cesc is up there yet with Henry, Bergkamp? No. But these arguments about his leadership, great games, influence, "bailing" really are clutching at a very slight straw - very weakly

hmmm... I should have qualified it by stating I was refering to Bren's point about Cesc's "achievements" when compared to the bigger picture of the club's history...

although I did qualify it by commenting on the players he has had to play with...

donaldo · Post by **donaldo** » Tue Jun 22, 2010 8:59 am

DB10GOONER wrote:
If he leaves now before winning something big, then 20 years from now Cesc will be a footnote in the club's history - no more.

Dont agree DB10.Liam Brady won the same as Cesc has.But is rightly looked on as one of the greatest players ever to play for the club 30 years after he left to win trophies.And Cesc will be looked on the same

augie · Post by **augie** » Tue Jun 22, 2010 9:06 am

donaldo wrote:
DB10GOONER wrote:
If he leaves now before winning something big, then 20 years from now Cesc will be a footnote in the club's history - no more.

Dont agree DB10.Liam Brady won the same as Cesc has.But is rightly looked on as one of the greatest players ever to play for the club 30 years after he left to win trophies.And Cesc will be looked on the same

Absolutely right mate

I cannot understand that cesc not winning much is classed as a knock against him considering the fact he has had to play alongside and in front of some of the biggest donkeys of wengers era

It is just as well that the great Dennis Bergkamp was not part of this side or he might be classed as no better than the 1 league title winner tim sherwood

Behave lads ffs

BT · Post by BT » Tue Jun 22, 2010 9:15 am

Surely, Bren, the whole point IS that he can't win anything with this team, not through lack of effort or skill, but because he is being stifled by the dross of talent and the tactics around him. And most of the time, he's the only one who seems to care about winning things as well.

marcengels · Post by **marcengels** » Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:00 am

DB10GOONER wrote:
hmmm... I should have qualified it by stating I was refering to Bren's point about Cesc's "achievements" when compared to the bigger picture of the club's history...

although I did qualify it by commenting on the players he has had to play with...

I was really only using your post as a "porthole" DB10, a conduit to get to bren's main points. Sorry for abusing you like that.

If you want to make anything more of it, I'll be outside turnstile.....

Post by **DB10GOONER** » Tue Jun 22, 2010 1:04 pm

marcengels wrote:
DB10GOONER wrote:
hmmm... I should have qualified it by stating I was refering to Bren's point about Cesc's "achievements" when compared to the bigger picture of the club's history...

although I did qualify it by commenting on the players he has had to play with...
I was really only using your post as a "porthole" DB10, a conduit to get to bren's main points. Sorry for abusing you like that.

If you want to make anything more of it, I'll be outside turnstile.....

I feel violated... as does my porthole...

Post by **flash gunner** » Tue Jun 22, 2010 1:15 pm

augie wrote:
donaldo wrote:
DB10GOONER wrote:
If he leaves now before winning something big, then 20 years from now Cesc will be a footnote in the club's history - no more.

Dont agree DB10.Liam Brady won the same as Cesc has.But is rightly looked on as one of the greatest players ever to play for the club 30 years after he left to win trophies.And Cesc will be looked on the same

Absolutely right mate I cannot understand that cesc not winning much is classed as a knock against him considering the fact he has had to play alongside and in front of some of the biggest donkeys of wengers era It is just as well that the great Dennis Bergkamp was not part of this side or he might be classed as no better than the 1 league title winner tim sherwood Behave lads ffs

spot on Augie and Donaldo

Post by **DB10GOONER** » Tue Jun 22, 2010 1:20 pm

donaldo wrote:
DB10GOONER wrote:
If he leaves now before winning something big, then 20 years from now Cesc will be a footnote in the club's history - no more.

Dont agree DB10.Liam Brady won the same as Cesc has.But is rightly looked on as one of the greatest players ever to play for the club 30 years after he left to win trophies.And Cesc will be looked on the same

Good point. But I think the difference with Brady was he was one of only a couple of truly world class talents in the English game at the time and thus he stood out as a Div one legend not just an Arsenal one. Cesc is playing at a time when the English top flight is littered with world class talent and most of them have had success.

Unfortunately, winning can be seen to be everything, particularly by the shallow media. If Cesc's leaves now he won't (obviously) be viewed with the same mystique as if he had won a couple of doubles or a CL.

As an example, Henry will be remembered as a great Arsenal player and legend but not as a great Arsenal captain because his tenure coincided with the downturn in our success.

I'm not saying Cesc will be forgotten, but he will be viewed as a great player that achieved little with us. Which is a shame.