Today feels like the beginning of the end.

[QuartzGooner]

The change from progress to descent was summer of 2008, it was when the very capable MKIII Wenger side based on the midfield of Hleb, Flamini, Cesc and Rosicky fell apart.

Two of them left, were not adequately replaced, and we had this gaping hole in defensive midfield.
Throw into the mix Adebayor's switch from a 30 goal a season hard worker to a could-not-care-less shirker, plus a reliance on average keepers, and Wenger has had to rebuild his MKIV side.

But with youth prospects very much hit and miss, and a paucity of effective defending, for us to go forward it needs an honest clearout of below par players, mixed with three really solid purchases.

[highburyJD]

He has turned a team of invincibles packed full of world class players in every position

the team Wenger inherited was hardly packed full of world class players!

we had one
our back 4/5 was a world class unit and Wrighty was an awesome striker but world class players...
just Bergkamp

we have just had two poor cup performances and we are lucky enough to still be in with a shout in both competitions
you would think we were out of both domestic cups the way every goes on

some here may think Leeds and Ipswich will now knock us out
fine maybe they will
but I'm sure lots are angry because they thought we would win
if what we all expected to happen did, football would be dull

If I had to put money on one team in the carling cup it would be us (we are massive favourites at 1.6 btw)
in the FA cup manUre are 5s, Chelski and Citeh who are through are 7s and we are 4th favourites at 8

I think most posters here rate domestic silverware above CL qualification and progress from the groups and feel angry that the first has been sacrificed for the 2nd. Wengers role has a financial element that arguably gives him a diff perspective on this. The point is WE ARE STILL IN BOTH DOMESTIC CUPS. Lets not give up yet.
We could sell all our best players to Barcelona next week and with some luck win those cups with our youth team (not a plan I'm advocating).

I could see were this thread was coming from if the league cup semi was one leg (it should be IMO) we would be out
If that walcott pen hadn't been awarded at the Ems (was borderline) we would be out of FAcup
but we're not
it's still possible for us to win both cups without having to play another single team who will be in the Prem next year

If we win two domestic cups and qualify for the CL is that an acceptable season? We could still do that without even playing amazingly well ffs lets have some perspective

Even those that think Wenger should be fired must realise
a- firing managers mid season is stupid
b- who the fek would you get instead
c- doing so could cost us Cesc and Nasri

I can understand beginning to lose faith in the manager, I still think he's the best man for the job and that his failings are outweighed by his strengths - but IMO anyone who believes an immediate dismissal is warranted must be nuts

[SteveO 35]

The change from progress to descent was summer of 2008, it was when the very capable MKIII Wenger side based on the midfield of Hleb, Flamini, Cesc and Rosicky fell apart.

Two of them left, were not adequately replaced, and we had this gaping hole in defensive midfield.Throw into the mix Adebayor's switch from a 30 goal a season hard worker to a could-not-care-less shirker, plus a reliance on average keepers, and Wenger has had to rebuild his MKIV side.

But with youth prospects very much hit and miss, and a paucity of effective defending, for us to go forward it needs an honest clearout of below par players, mixed with three really solid purchases.

Yes, I would also say that allowing the top class Diarra to fall out of favour and Gilberto to leave at the same time would add to that problem. He let 3 central midfielders go at once. Diarra should still be here and was the one that got away......infinitely more talented than Flamini and yet allowed to rot as he did at Chelsea. Heaven forbid that the guy then had the audacity to speak out and move on...

And for all the same reasons this side will never make it. Within the next year and a half Nasri and Cesc will be gone and we'll be left to wonder if Ramsey and Wilshere ever step up a level

[nino_rojo]

Interesting. You dont want us to achieve something, so that we can achieve something?

No, I'm not gonna have a rant because there is no point.

An achievement on a par with winning the emirates cup

Was good enough for Man Utd last season.

And yes, mob mentality. I said I wont rant, and I wont. But here is a question...

So, we get rid of Wenger. Then what? Who do we get in that will bring us more success, and keep us from liquidation, with the money we have at our disposal?

[Henry Norris 1913]

1991, can u honestly abide the image of Denilson, Bender, Eboue, Vela jumping up and down with the carling cup singing championees

with Wenger in the background talking about the beginnings of something special

arsenal need a change to achieve something , see george graham and bertie mee, but wenger will never leave us of his own accord and he won't get sacked so we might as well make something of it.......

[flash gunner]

Interesting. You dont want us to achieve something, so that we can achieve something?

No, I'm not gonna have a rant because there is no point.

An achievement on a par with winning the emirates cup

Was good enough for Man Utd last season.

And yes, mob mentality. I said I wont rant, and I wont. But here is a question...

So, we get rid of Wenger. Then what? Who do we get in that will bring us more success, and keep us from liquidation, with the money we have at our disposal?

Where did liquidation come from? Arsenal will not go into liquidation due to spending some money

and the CC was good enough for united last season condering they were coming off the back of 2 or 3 consecutive championships and a European cup the season before that

[selsdon]

Liquidation?

[highburyJD]

1991, can u honestly abide the image of Denilson, Bender, Eboue, Vela jumping up and down with the carling cup singing championeeswith Wenger in the background talking about the beginnings of something special

What a sickening stomach churning thought.

how about morrow, selley, hilllier, mcgoldrick and linighan?
get a grip ffs
sounds like you hate our team more than any Spuds fan

[SteveO 35]

Interesting. You dont want us to achieve something, so that we can achieve something?

No, I'm not gonna have a rant because there is no point.

An achievement on a par with winning the emirates cup

Was good enough for Man Utd last season.

And yes, mob mentality. I said I wont rant, and I wont. But here is a question...

So, we get rid of Wenger. Then what? Who do we get in that will bring us more success, and keep us from liquidation, with the money we have at our disposal?

Where did liquidation come from? Arsenal will not go into liquidation due to spending some money

and the CC was good enough for united last season condering they were coming off the back of 2 or 3 consecutive championships and a European cup the season before that

You can see how the brainwashing has kicked in with some people can't you. It's like...without Arsene there would be nothing. The World of Arsenal began in 1996 and will end when he one day steps down. Signing Cahill for £15m will end the world as we know it and send Arsenal plunging to the depths of despair and a knock at the door from the Administrator.

The club generates over £30m+ in operating profit FFS. There is money to spend but it is no-one's else job to spend it but his

[Dan_85]

If we lose the 2nd leg we'll be at WHL on the day we should have been at Wembley. The swampies will have a fucking field day...

[Henry Norris 1913]

1991, can u honestly abide the image of Denilson, Bender, Eboue, Vela jumping up and down with the carling cup singing championeeswith Wenger in the background talking about the beginnings of something special

What a sickening stomach churning thought.

how about morrow, selley, hilllier, mcgoldrick and linighan?
get a grip ffs
sounds like you hate our team more than any Spuds fan

I understand his point, however at the end of the day at least those players knew what it meant to play for arsenal

[selsdon]

1991, can u honestly abide the image of Denilson, Bender, Eboue, Vela jumping up and down with the carling cup singing championeeswith Wenger in the background talking about the beginnings of something special

What a sickening stomach churning thought.

how about morrow, selley, hilllier, mcgoldrick and linighan?
get a grip ffs
sounds like you hate our team more than any Spuds fan

GG never told us that lot were world-beaters, he never rewarded em with extended lucrative contracts but most importantly each and every one of them, despite their serious lack of talent, were proud to wear the Arsenal shirt and never put in anything less than 100%.

[rodders999]

He has turned a team of invincibles packed full of world class players in every position

the team Wenger inherited was hardly packed full of world class players!

I wasn't on about the team he inherited, i was on about the invincibles of 2004 to the current shambles.

[goonersid]

1991, can u honestly abide the image of Denilson, Bender, Eboue, Vela jumping up and down with the carling cup singing championeeswith Wenger in the background talking about the beginnings of something special

What a sickening stomach churning thought.

how about morrow, selley, hilllier, mcgoldrick and linighan?
get a grip ffs
sounds like you hate our team more than any Spuds fan

The thing is those players whilst maybe lacking ability, never lacked passion. Some you mention were part of the 91 league winning side, they also gave us an fa cup the same season as the lge cup, and not to mention a cup winners cup the following season.
And no I don't hate our team more than any spud fan, but I doubt that many spuds fans hate the likes of Denilson etc, on the contrary they will hope they wear the Arsenal shirt for years to come and play in many a North London derby.

[flash gunner]

Interesting. You dont want us to achieve something, so that we can achieve something?

No, I'm not gonna have a rant because there is no point.

An achievement on a par with winning the emirates cup

Was good enough for Man Utd last season.

And yes, mob mentality. I said I wont rant, and I wont. But here is a question...

So, we get rid of Wenger. Then what? Who do we get in that will bring us more success, and keep us from liquidation, with the money we have at our disposal?

Where did liquidation come from? Arsenal will not go into liquidation due to spending some money

and the CC was good enough for united last season condering they were coming off the back of 2 or 3 consecutive championships and a European cup the season before that

You can see how the brainwashing has kicked in with some people can't you. It's like...without Arsene there would be nothing. The World of Arsenal began in 1996 and will end when he one day steps down. Signing Cahill for £15m will end the world as we know it and send Arsenal plunging to the depths of despair and a knock at the door from the Administrator.

The club generates over £30m+ in operating profit FFS. There is money to spend but it is no-one's else job to spend it but his

Well said. The Wenger movement is like a religeous cult