As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
MutleyGooner wrote:Yes silverware is always nice to win, but based on there only being 4 league winners & 2 domestic cups to play for each season and 92 league clubs, there will always be at least 86 teams who fail each season. We all want to see our team do well but traditionally fans will go along and support their team regardless of league position, just look at Leeds.
This is why I have a problem with you, you seem to think that we have a divine right to pick up silverware and that the board are purposely trying to prevent this from happening. That is a ridiculous thing to suggest but you are too blinkered to see otherwise.
I am sure that the board have their own views on which players they would like to see playing for Arsenal, fortunately they stick to balancing the books and leave Wenger to name his transfer targets and pick the team. Admittedly he doesn't always get it right but I think he is doing a better job than Kroenke or Usmanov would, just as I wouldn't want Wenger doing the company accounts.
Ah, I hadn't heard that old divine right chestnut in awhile. It's really garbage. I just believe that we worked our way to a position of historixcal usccess in recent years and to choose to give that up is tempting fate , and the possibility that we gave it up solely for the benefit of major shareholders in the club should anger every one of us.
You will note I am not calling for the manager to be sacked because he hasn't won anything recently - you and others seem to be doing that in fact. So in fact who believes we have this divine right then?
I would be happy to to see us show the same ambition we did from 1998-2005 and if we win something for it all the better. I just don't think not having a real chance to win more than the Carling Cup simply to make a larger profit which in turn makes major shareholders wealthier is what we should want for Arsenal. As I say I used to think the FA Cup was the big prize in English Football so I think your notion that I believe we have a divine right to anything is a bit rich.
I just feel we should give our very best to achieve as much as we can and no one should be happy if we don't. They don't pay us to support the Arsenal - we pay them.
Did you even know Arsenal existed prior to 1998? What year did Fox start showing premier league matches? You're not so much of a "Jonny come lately" more of a "Jonny not come at all".
As mentioned earlier, I hope you get to go to a match one day, then you may have a clearer perspective and understanding of being an Arsenal fan. Until then, may I suggest NFL
MutleyGooner wrote:Did you even know Arsenal existed prior to 1998? What year did Fox start showing premier league matches? You're not so much of a "Jonny come lately" more of a "Jonny not come at all".
As mentioned earlier, I hope you get to go to a match one day, then you may have a clearer perspective and understanding of being an Arsenal fan. Until then, may I suggest NFL
Are you high?
I first began watching Arsenal on U.S. Public Television two decsdes before Fox Soccer Channel back when pegging Liverpool or Forest back was a big achievement. You rememeber those teams - Brady, Sunderland,Rice, Stapleton Graham Rix, Pat Jennings, David O'Leary, Talbot, those were my first real Arsenal teams, though in fact I feel a greater affection for the 71 Double Winning side because had aI not know about them as a six-year-old I never would have known to support Arsenal when the began showing English First Division matches here. I recognized the name and the cannon and have followed them since - over 30 years - jesus that's kinda freaky to think about
I have been to about three dozen Arsenal matches in England mostly at Highbury and a few on the continent, and was in Paris for the Champions league Final though I couldn't get a ticket and had to watch across from the stadium, and was there for the 03 Cup Final win at the Millenium Stadium. My greatest regret in my life is not coming to Highbury sooner, my greatest satisfaction perhaps that I was lucky enough to have been able to say I did see us there, including the last North London Derby and next to last Arsenal match ever there.
Save your "I'm a better supporter than you" crap for some real plastics because that is just what it is crap. You try following Arsenel from a small town in here in America in the mid 80's - no cable TV no Internet, minimal at most press covereage - usually a list of results on Sunday and a League table was a good week.. I remember the joy of reading how Brian Talbot finally sent us on to Wembley over Liverpool in 1980 in the third replay - all of a single paragraph - as meaningful as any fiull-length match report now. But God I read that over and over. I have read whole chapters on it now and somehow the memory of reading that one paragraph means more still. I worked my ass off to follow Arsenal at a time when many people who weren't born with Arsenal in their DNA from day one would have walked away. You have some nerve questioning that.
MutleyGooner wrote:Did you even know Arsenal existed prior to 1998? What year did Fox start showing premier league matches? You're not so much of a "Jonny come lately" more of a "Jonny not come at all".
As mentioned earlier, I hope you get to go to a match one day, then you may have a clearer perspective and understanding of being an Arsenal fan. Until then, may I suggest NFL
Are you high?
I first began watching Arsenal on U.S. Public Television two decsdes before Fox Soccer Channel back when pegging Liverpool or Forest back was a big achievement. You rememeber those teams - Brady, Sunderland,Rice, Stapleton Graham Rix, Pat Jennings, David O'Leary, Talbot, those were my first real Arsenal teams, though in fact I feel a greater affection for the 71 Double Winning side because had aI not know about them as a six-year-old I never would have known to support Arsenal when the began showing English First Division matches here. I recognized the name and the cannon and have followed them since - over 30 years - jesus that's kinda freaky to think about
I have been to about three dozen Arsenal matches in England mostly at Highbury and a few on the continent, and was in Paris for the Champions league Final though I couldn't get a ticket and had to watch across from the stadium, and was there for the 03 Cup Final win at the Millenium Stadium. My greatest regret in my life is not coming to Highbury sooner, my greatest satisfaction perhaps that I was lucky enough to have been able to say I did see us there, including the last North London Derby and next to last Arsenal match ever there.
Save your "I'm a better supporter than you" crap for some real plastics because that is just what it is crap. You try following Arsenel from a small town in here in America in the mid 80's - no cable TV no Internet, minimal at most press covereage - usually a list of results on Sunday and a League table was a good week.. I remember the joy of reading how Brian Talbot finally sent us on to Wembley over Liverpool in 1980 in the third replay - all of a single paragraph - as meaningful as any fiull-length match report now. But God I read that over and over. I have read whole chapters on it now and somehow the memory of reading that one paragraph means more still. I worked my ass off to follow Arsenal at a time when many people who weren't born with Arsenal in their DNA from day one would have walked away. You have some nerve questioning that.
If it's so difficult for you why don't you follow some soccer team?
MutleyGooner wrote:Did you even know Arsenal existed prior to 1998? What year did Fox start showing premier league matches? You're not so much of a "Jonny come lately" more of a "Jonny not come at all".
As mentioned earlier, I hope you get to go to a match one day, then you may have a clearer perspective and understanding of being an Arsenal fan. Until then, may I suggest NFL
Are you high?
I first began watching Arsenal on U.S. Public Television two decsdes before Fox Soccer Channel back when pegging Liverpool or Forest back was a big achievement. You rememeber those teams - Brady, Sunderland,Rice, Stapleton Graham Rix, Pat Jennings, David O'Leary, Talbot, those were my first real Arsenal teams, though in fact I feel a greater affection for the 71 Double Winning side because had aI not know about them as a six-year-old I never would have known to support Arsenal when the began showing English First Division matches here. I recognized the name and the cannon and have followed them since - over 30 years - jesus that's kinda freaky to think about
I have been to about three dozen Arsenal matches in England mostly at Highbury and a few on the continent, and was in Paris for the Champions league Final though I couldn't get a ticket and had to watch across from the stadium, and was there for the 03 Cup Final win at the Millenium Stadium. My greatest regret in my life is not coming to Highbury sooner, my greatest satisfaction perhaps that I was lucky enough to have been able to say I did see us there, including the last North London Derby and next to last Arsenal match ever there.
Save your "I'm a better supporter than you" crap for some real plastics because that is just what it is crap. You try following Arsenel from a small town in here in America in the mid 80's - no cable TV no Internet, minimal at most press covereage - usually a list of results on Sunday and a League table was a good week.. I remember the joy of reading how Brian Talbot finally sent us on to Wembley over Liverpool in 1980 in the third replay - all of a single paragraph - as meaningful as any fiull-length match report now. But God I read that over and over. I have read whole chapters on it now and somehow the memory of reading that one paragraph means more still. I worked my ass off to follow Arsenal at a time when many people who weren't born with Arsenal in their DNA from day one would have walked away. You have some nerve questioning that.
Fuck me, see you can do it, well done, a whole post without mentioning the board once and an interesting and insightful post to boot. There is hope for you yet
USMartin wrote: I just believe that we worked our way to a position of historixcal usccess in recent years and to choose to give that up is tempting fate , and the possibility that we gave it up solely for the benefit of major shareholders in the club should anger every one of us.
Prove it.
More likely the board built a new stadium so we could get more fans into games and make more money.
I can make a case but how about you prove that they haven't v - you can't.
You are just so wedded to the belief our Board is not like other Boards and have always been Arsenal men and women and supporters lioke us and have such faith in that belief that you cannot accept even the thought that that might not be true at this point.
You take their word as 100% fact even if it bears no resemblance to the facts because to you that is being a loyal supporter I suspect. I would suggest that you are a supporter of Arsenal first last and always and not the people who happen to run it - you know, no man is bigger than the club and all that, right?
I can make a very strong case but people like you want some undeniable indisputable proof even though you don't seem to give a rat's ass if there is undeniable or indisputable proof supporting what the Board says because you believe supporting the Board at all times is essential to being a good supporter.
Hell forget the case I can make - you have made a case for what I believe too pointing out over and over again how we just have to accpet the club will not be spending as much for several more years - I think once you even suggested iuntil 2031 - because of its business policies.
All I have to do is point that as they do this they aren't hesitating to cash in at obscene profits on their investments or family heritages and making 8-10K a share on their sale after investing no more than 2K a share.
Of course you'd just congratulate them and try to tell yourself that the lack of spending and the increase in their share price are purely coincidental and some happy accident for them, even as you worry about outsiders running the club. Well would you have to worry about if the millionaire insiders weren't so eager to make themselves even richer?
Better yet why don't you prove it is not the case and show me some proof other than the Board's quotes or some Gooner Blogger's analysis that proves 1) they have not taken actions such as the re-development of Highbury solely to increase the share price and 2) that they have not acted in any way such as altering the wage structure to limit what the manager can spend.
And please don't conflate the re-development and the new stadium as if the stadium could not be built without re-developing Highbury since it could. And please don't try to compare a five year project with a fifty year project. And Please don't try to say Premier League investigations uncover less accurate information from the witnesses they depose than bloggers who talk to no one do.
Just give me some proof that in fact there is no relationship between the changes in spending policy and the efforts to cash in at maximum profit by Board members underway that comes from someone credible outside the Board Room or Club.
And if you don't have any please explain why you are so uncomfortable with seeking the truth?
highburyJD wrote:cash in 'at maximum profit' is an exaggeration
ask york city fans
My point is they are pushing the share price as high as possible to maximize their profit on their initla investement - if they in fact actually invested anything in the shares they control.
The higher the profits are the higher the share price will go.
MutleyGooner wrote:Did you even know Arsenal existed prior to 1998? What year did Fox start showing premier league matches? You're not so much of a "Jonny come lately" more of a "Jonny not come at all".
As mentioned earlier, I hope you get to go to a match one day, then you may have a clearer perspective and understanding of being an Arsenal fan. Until then, may I suggest NFL
Are you high?
I first began watching Arsenal on U.S. Public Television two decsdes before Fox Soccer Channel back when pegging Liverpool or Forest back was a big achievement. You rememeber those teams - Brady, Sunderland,Rice, Stapleton Graham Rix, Pat Jennings, David O'Leary, Talbot, those were my first real Arsenal teams, though in fact I feel a greater affection for the 71 Double Winning side because had aI not know about them as a six-year-old I never would have known to support Arsenal when the began showing English First Division matches here. I recognized the name and the cannon and have followed them since - over 30 years - jesus that's kinda freaky to think about
I have been to about three dozen Arsenal matches in England mostly at Highbury and a few on the continent, and was in Paris for the Champions league Final though I couldn't get a ticket and had to watch across from the stadium, and was there for the 03 Cup Final win at the Millenium Stadium. My greatest regret in my life is not coming to Highbury sooner, my greatest satisfaction perhaps that I was lucky enough to have been able to say I did see us there, including the last North London Derby and next to last Arsenal match ever there.
Save your "I'm a better supporter than you" crap for some real plastics because that is just what it is crap. You try following Arsenel from a small town in here in America in the mid 80's - no cable TV no Internet, minimal at most press covereage - usually a list of results on Sunday and a League table was a good week.. I remember the joy of reading how Brian Talbot finally sent us on to Wembley over Liverpool in 1980 in the third replay - all of a single paragraph - as meaningful as any fiull-length match report now. But God I read that over and over. I have read whole chapters on it now and somehow the memory of reading that one paragraph means more still. I worked my ass off to follow Arsenal at a time when many people who weren't born with Arsenal in their DNA from day one would have walked away. You have some nerve questioning that.
If Charlie George had known what his scorcher against Liverpool at Wembley in 71 was going to lead to 40 years later, he may have decided to pass rather than shoot.
MutleyGooner wrote:Did you even know Arsenal existed prior to 1998? What year did Fox start showing premier league matches? You're not so much of a "Jonny come lately" more of a "Jonny not come at all".
As mentioned earlier, I hope you get to go to a match one day, then you may have a clearer perspective and understanding of being an Arsenal fan. Until then, may I suggest NFL
Are you high?
I first began watching Arsenal on U.S. Public Television two decsdes before Fox Soccer Channel back when pegging Liverpool or Forest back was a big achievement. You rememeber those teams - Brady, Sunderland,Rice, Stapleton Graham Rix, Pat Jennings, David O'Leary, Talbot, those were my first real Arsenal teams, though in fact I feel a greater affection for the 71 Double Winning side because had aI not know about them as a six-year-old I never would have known to support Arsenal when the began showing English First Division matches here. I recognized the name and the cannon and have followed them since - over 30 years - jesus that's kinda freaky to think about
I have been to about three dozen Arsenal matches in England mostly at Highbury and a few on the continent, and was in Paris for the Champions league Final though I couldn't get a ticket and had to watch across from the stadium, and was there for the 03 Cup Final win at the Millenium Stadium. My greatest regret in my life is not coming to Highbury sooner, my greatest satisfaction perhaps that I was lucky enough to have been able to say I did see us there, including the last North London Derby and next to last Arsenal match ever there.
Save your "I'm a better supporter than you" crap for some real plastics because that is just what it is crap. You try following Arsenel from a small town in here in America in the mid 80's - no cable TV no Internet, minimal at most press covereage - usually a list of results on Sunday and a League table was a good week.. I remember the joy of reading how Brian Talbot finally sent us on to Wembley over Liverpool in 1980 in the third replay - all of a single paragraph - as meaningful as any fiull-length match report now. But God I read that over and over. I have read whole chapters on it now and somehow the memory of reading that one paragraph means more still. I worked my ass off to follow Arsenal at a time when many people who weren't born with Arsenal in their DNA from day one would have walked away. You have some nerve questioning that.
If Charlie George had known what his scorcher against Liverpool at Wembley in 71 was going to lead to 40 years later, he may have decided to pass rather than shoot.
If that is true maybe supporters like me had something to do with our winning that final then.
highburyJD wrote:cash in 'at maximum profit' is an exaggeration
ask york city fans
My point is they are pushing the share price as high as possible to maximize their profit on their initla investement - if they in fact actually invested anything in the shares they control.
The higher the profits are the higher the share price will go.
which is not 'maximum profit'
they have taken no money out of the club
I share some of your worries but hyperbole undermines them
