Safe standing bid launched in Parliament

LDB · Post by **LDB** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:19 am

Signed

Dan_85 · Post by **Dan_85** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 11:11 am

Signed! We do love a good petition on the OG Forum...

bunch · Post by **bunch** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:52 pm

Our terraces were the safest that I experienced in the old days. And we never had the fences, well done to the Board for resisting that back in the 70s and 80s when every other big club put them up. Cost us FA Cup semi-final venue status as well as I recall. Maybe Liverpool v Forest in 1989 would have been staged at Highbury instead (although Hillsborough made more sense from a location point of view).

If safe terracing came in I could see our money obsessed board going for it. Sling out 5000 seats behind the goal in the North Bank and make standing tickets a third cheaper than those seats are now (from Â£35ish to Â£24 ish). Or actually reduce the price by 10% make more money and say the small reduction for standing is due to increase stewarding required.

Post by **HashKads** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:53 pm

Premier League against bid to bring back football standing areas

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard- ... g-areas.do

Post by **flash gunner** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:55 pm

IT

WONT

HAPPEN

Post by **HashKads** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:58 pm

flash gunner wrote:IT

WONT

HAPPEN

I agree with you Flash, even if the government allowed it, it would be up to the clubs and there is no way the clubs would allow this.

Post by **flash gunner** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:10 pm

kingjayson1 wrote:
flash gunner wrote:IT

WONT

HAPPEN
I agree with you Flash, even if the government allowed it, it would be up to the clubs and there is no way the clubs would allow this.

Its too soon, Hillsborough is still fresh in people memories. Maybe in 50 years time things will be thought about rationally and safe standing is exactly that - safe. The scousers fucked it up for all of us

Dan_85 · Post by **Dan_85** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:10 pm

There are some true fucking morons running both this country & The Premier League.

"Our view is that the benefits of all-seater stadia far outweigh the return of standing areas", Premier League chief spokesman Dan Johnson said.

"They have led to more women and more children attending the games and no matter how safe standing can be made, seating is always safer. We will not be encouraging the Government to change the law."

Seating is always safer? Perhaps, providing that everyone does in fact remain sat in their seat, which we know isn't the case. Thousands & thousands stand in front of their seat at every game & this is inherently more dangerous than standing in spaces specifically designed for the purpose. We've all had people come tumbling over the back of seats when celebrating goals & take a look at Basil's pic of that seat which got snapped in half during celebrations at the Barca game. How is that safer than safe standing?

More women & children attending? True, is that a good or bad thing? That's probably a debate for another thread. However i'm certain children (and a lot of women too, no sexism though!) would enjoy the game more if their view wasn't obstructed due to persistent standing. Those who want to stand could do so in safe standing areas, those who want to sit could do so in the remaining seated areas.

The "crowd control" argument is bollocks too. How is it any harder to control than it is in an all seater stadium? You have the same number of people standing in designated spaces, just as you do now. The only difference is they're standing as opposed to sitting. How does the act of sitting on a chair make a person inherently easier to control? Why is this issue not raised at concerts, where people can stand or sit as they choose. Not only this but concert-goers can drink alcohol, potentially making them more volatile.

The only reason they're against it is that it would give the fans more of a voice & also they would be pressured into reducing ticket costs in standing areas equalling less income. Money talks, bullshit walks.

Pilly · Post by **Pilly** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 4:13 pm

flash gunner wrote:
kingjayson1 wrote:
flash gunner wrote:IT

WONT

HAPPEN
I agree with you Flash, even if the government allowed it, it would be up to the clubs and there is no way the clubs would allow this.
Its too soon, Hillsborough is still fresh in people memories. Maybe in 50 years time things will be thought about rationally and safe standing is exactly that - safe. The scousers fucked it up for all of us

Liverpool fans ruined English football.

Their actions at Heysel got English teams banned from Europe between 85-90. This not only set English football back decades in terms of progression and the development of technical ability but also directly affected Arsenal FC as we were unable to play in the European Cup after our 89 triumph at Anfield.

Chips and Chocolate · Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:08 pm

http://www.safestandingroadshow.co.uk/

SteveO 35 · Post by **SteveO 35** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:18 pm

Pilly wrote:
flash gunner wrote:
kingjayson1 wrote:
flash gunner wrote:IT

WONT

HAPPEN
I agree with you Flash, even if the government allowed it, it would be up to the clubs and there is no way the clubs would allow this.
Its too soon, Hillsborough is still fresh in people memories. Maybe in 50 years time things will be thought about rationally and safe standing is exactly that - safe. The scousers fucked it up for all of us
Liverpool fans ruined English football.

Their actions at Heysel got English teams banned from Europe between 85-90. This not only set English football back decades in terms of progression and the development of technical ability but also directly affected Arsenal FC as we were unable to play in the European Cup after our 89 triumph at Anfield.

Hooray ! Someone else has seen through the myth of "the greatest fans in the world" as well. In addition to setting English football back a decade (a point conveniently sketched off by their ever loving media); throw in the endless trouble they've caused since then, the blame culture they inflict upon every local police force whose town they terrorise, their spiteful hounding of Hodgson after about four weeks, booing their own team off when they were still top of the league a couple of seasons back, and getting only 16,000 of your own fans at a home Carling Cup game this season.......and there you have it. The Greatest Fans in the World !

Chips and Chocolate · Post by **Chips and Chocolate** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 9:27 am

I've got a feeling we might get what we want... keep the faith!!!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011 ... ur-grounds

Post by **flash gunner** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 9:29 am

SteveO 35 wrote:
Pilly wrote:
flash gunner wrote:
kingjayson1 wrote:
flash gunner wrote:IT

WONT

HAPPEN
I agree with you Flash, even if the government allowed it, it would be up to the clubs and there is no way the clubs would allow this.
Its too soon, Hillsborough is still fresh in people memories. Maybe in 50 years time things will be thought about rationally and safe standing is exactly that - safe. The scousers fucked it up for all of us
Liverpool fans ruined English football.

Their actions at Heysel got English teams banned from Europe between 85-90. This not only set English football back decades in terms of progression and the development of technical ability but also directly affected Arsenal FC as we were unable to play in the European Cup after our 89 triumph at Anfield.
Hooray ! Someone else has seen through the myth of "the greatest fans in the world" as well. In addition to setting English football back a decade (a point conveniently sketched off by their ever loving media); throw in the endless trouble they've caused since then, the blame culture they inflict upon every local police force whose town they terrorise, their spiteful hounding of Hodgson after about four weeks, booing their own team off when they were still top of the league a couple of seasons back, and getting only 16,000 of your own fans at a home Carling Cup game this season.......and there you have it. The Greatest Fans in the World !

spot on SteveO

SWLGooner · Post by **SWLGooner** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:11 pm

GunnerRyan wrote:finally got a letter from my mp today:

Thank you for contacting me, regarding Safe Standing in football stadia. Lord Justice Taylor recommended twenty years ago that standing be abolished at matches in the top two leagues. This was in light of a series of incidents at football games, of which the Hillsborough disaster, where nearly 100 died and many more were injured, was the most dreadful.

I hope you will agree that most football grounds, for a number of reasons, are safer and more comfortable than they were 15 or 20 years ago. Whilst I understand why many supporters miss the tradition, the feel and the atmosphere that some grounds had before, statistics are less likely to be injured at all-seater grounds than at those that retain standing accommodation. I also understand that those who manage, license or certify stadia generally hold the view that the introduction of all-seated stadia has helped to improve crowd management and the crowd behaviour.

Seating also offers higher standards of comfort and provides spectators with their own defensible spaces, which can only contribute to encouraging families and increasing the diversity of those attending football matches in recent years. The Football Licensing Authority (FLA) considered the 'Kombi' system, which is used in Germany, on the government's behalf in 2001. It concluded that while it was well engineered, the current design of English grounds would not allow for the installation of this system without substantial investment by clubs, including, in some cases, the complete rebuilding of stands.

The minister for Sport, Hugh Robertson, has expressed doubt that a compelling case has been made to change the policy on standing areas. But he and I shall continue to follow with interest any developments or further representations that are made on this subject

If you would like to discuss this or any other matter, please do not hesitate to contact me at any time.

with every good with.
Yours sincerely
Andrew Rosindell M.P

least i got a lengthy reply..

I got a very very similar letter.. Hmmm.

Dan_85 · Post by **Dan_85** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 3:31 pm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... races.html

A truly terrible, sensationalist piece from Kenny Dalglish in today's Mail. Sadly it's gonna be a hard fight to get safe standing introduced while you've got voices such as these bleating on about Hillsborough & swaying both media & political opinion. Sadly Kenny seems to mention in the article that we want a return to terracing, which is completely incorrect. Still, "terracing" is the better term to use to argue your point eh Kenny? It evokes images of Hillsborough, violence & football disasters which couldn't be further from what safe standing is all about. But then who cares about facts & truth in an argument that could affect hundreds of thousands...

He completely fails to mention the fact that the majority of the Kop stand for the duration of the game. Standing in areas designed for seating is inherently more dangerous if something does go wrong than in safe standing areas with a crush rail in front of every row or two.

I've heard it argued that people are denied the right to make a choice between sitting and standing but if you asked people what the safer option would be, they would say sitting.

With the current all-seater set up in grounds perhaps seating is safer Kenny, but thousands upon thousands every week do not sit in their seats, but stand in front of it instead. This is a fact & I fail to understand why Dalglish or any anti-standing hacks fail to address this point. If people are gonna stand would it not be better to install areas specifically designed with the safety of supporters in mind?

The other point I've heard mentioned is that all-seater stadiums are bad for atmosphere. Even if that were true, would it not be right to sacrifice a little bit of atmosphere for safety? I don't think the argument about atmosphere is correct anyway. You can't deny that there have been some absolutely fantastic nights at Anfield since the stadium went all-seater.Yes, the famous Saint Etienne European Cup game in 1977 when you could squeeze 26,000 into the old Kop was played in a marvellous atmosphere. But it was also extremely good against Olympiakos in 2004 when Steven Gerrard rattled one in to take Liverpool through against the odds.
People talk with some reverence about the 2005 semi-final against Chelsea when the noise and passion were incredible and sucked Luis Garcia's shot over the line. Remember, that was in an all-seater stadium.

I can guarantee Kenny that on each of those nights mentioned at least 75% of the stadium were probably standing.

Maybe some other grounds don't have that old-fashioned atmosphere any more but if the reward is that mothers and fathers can take their children there in safety, that's surely not a bad thing

It's fucking moronic to even suggest that the introduction of safe standing would make stadiums less safe than they currently are.

I know fans still stand in countries like Germany. But you can't compare their situation with ours. If Germany had endured a tragedy like Hillsborough, of innocent supporters dying because they went to a football match, they would have banned standing and they would not now be talking of reversing that decision.

You can't compare their situation to ours? Correct. That's because in Germany football is much more centred around the fans rather than greed & income as is the case over here. They haven't suffered a disaster like Hillsborough because their set up at matches is, and always has been, safer than the wide open terracing we had in the 80s & also because they're much better behaved and don't have to deal with thousands of scousers trying to bunk in without tickets.

Sorry for the long post but it's a subject i'm passionate about & it infuriates me that ill-informed people both in the media & parliament with preconceived ideas, who can't rationally weigh up arguments, are essentially deciding how we should enjoy our game.