As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
I agree with a lot of what you said but if you don't like the motto you should take it out on the people that started using it the first time around. It looks like they'll just be using it this season and it's not a bad thing to use our first motto (or the leaves) for the 125th anniversary kit, whatever their motives are.
I quite like the jockey shirt, but not as an Arsenal shirt
I'm sure that many of us have lived through some dark days with the club when the most we had to look forward was a substitute appearence from Perry Groves. We had mediocre players and we won bugger all. But perversely, I wasn't as downhearted as I am now. I may have been naive but I still felt it was our club. Now I feel that as a fan I am inconsequential. Clubs are now the property of rich foreigners who are interested in money or their egos, but can't have any true feeling for a club they'd never heard of until a few years ago.
When I was 11 we moved out of London and I couldn't afford/wasn't allowed to go to games. I started going to watch Gillingham. Shit ground, crap team playing crap football but I'm convinced that the fans felt part of the club, not distanced from it.
I can't imagine starting a new FC Arsenal, but I'm not as convinced as some that it will all be OK in the end. As long as people pay Sky, Sky pay the clubs and rich ego-maniacs play FM 2011 with our clubs we will remain onlookers. I think we need to pray for Abramovic and/or the Arabs to get bored or for their circumstances to change and for Citeh or Chelski to go bust to put some reality back into the game.
God, I've depressed myslef now!
We're all mugs in that the extra money coming into the game from the Sky tv contract......which WE indirectly fund......and which should have made it cheaper to actually attend a match in person......has merely had the effect of making clubs more attractive as investments than as football clubs.....and funded higher player wages.....leading to increased ticket prices.....and distancing of the fans from their club and players!
The best thing that could happen to football would be a total collapse in it's popularity and globalisation - football armaggedon.....leading to overseas owners offloading their investments, share price crash, the odd club truly going bust, cheaper tv subscriptions, cheaper ticket prices....and clubs being returned to people who truly only want to own them for what they are rather than as part of a financial portfolio.
The funny thing is that I remember having this conversation with a spuds fans years ago, with me saying he was mad to have a season ticket and go to every away game because it just led to ever increasing prices. And what happens, we move to the Grove....I come to the top of the ST waiting list....and become just another football hamster on the f*cking wheel.....!
Last edited by MK Gould on Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
MK Gould wrote:We're all mugs in that the extra money coming into the game from the Sky tv contract......which WE indirectly fund......and which should have made it cheaper to actually attend a match in person......has merely had the effect of making clubs more attractive as investments than as football clubs.....and funded higher player wages.....leading to increased ticket prices.....and distancing of the fans from their club and players!
The best thing that could happen to football would be a total collapse in it's popularity and globalisation - football armaggedon.....leading to overseas owners offloading their investments, share price crash, the odd club truly going bust, cheaper tv subscriptions, cheaper ticket prices....and clubs being returned to people who truly only want to own them for are they are rather than as part of a financial portfolio.
I agree with the above but this will never happen so where do we go from here?
MK Gould wrote:We're all mugs in that the extra money coming into the game from the Sky tv contract......which WE indirectly fund......and which should have made it cheaper to actually attend a match in person......has merely had the effect of making clubs more attractive as investments than as football clubs.....and funded higher player wages.....leading to increased ticket prices.....and distancing of the fans from their club and players!
The best thing that could happen to football would be a total collapse in it's popularity and globalisation - football armaggedon.....leading to overseas owners offloading their investments, share price crash, the odd club truly going bust, cheaper tv subscriptions, cheaper ticket prices....and clubs being returned to people who truly only want to own them for are they are rather than as part of a financial portfolio.
I agree with the above but this will never happen so where do we go from here?
Sorry - added another comment by edit before you replied:
The funny thing is that I remember having this conversation with a spuds fans years ago, with me saying he was mad to have a season ticket and go to every away game because it just led to ever increasing prices. And what happens, we move to the Grove....I come to the top of the ST waiting list....and become just another football hamster on the f*cking wheel.....!
I don't think that Arsenal are much different to any other Premier League club, And just about every Championship club are just Premier League wannabees!
We just have to hang on in there and hope that the finanical meltdown comes sooner rather than later.....as it's difficult to see enough fans getting off the "wheel" to make much of an impact on the clubs in the meantime......
MK Gould wrote:We're all mugs in that the extra money coming into the game from the Sky tv contract......which WE indirectly fund......and which should have made it cheaper to actually attend a match in person......has merely had the effect of making clubs more attractive as investments than as football clubs.....and funded higher player wages.....leading to increased ticket prices.....and distancing of the fans from their club and players!
The best thing that could happen to football would be a total collapse in it's popularity and globalisation - football armaggedon.....leading to overseas owners offloading their investments, share price crash, the odd club truly going bust, cheaper tv subscriptions, cheaper ticket prices....and clubs being returned to people who truly only want to own them for are they are rather than as part of a financial portfolio.
I agree with the above but this will never happen so where do we go from here?
Sorry - added another comment by edit before you replied:
The funny thing is that I remember having this conversation with a spuds fans years ago, with me saying he was mad to have a season ticket and go to every away game because it just led to ever increasing prices. And what happens, we move to the Grove....I come to the top of the ST waiting list....and become just another football hamster on the f*cking wheel.....!
I don't think that Arsenal are much different to any other Premier League club, And just about every Championship club are just Premier League wannabees!
We just have to hang on in there and hope that the finanical meltdown comes sooner rather than later.....as it's difficult to see enough fans getting off the "wheel" to make much of an impact on the clubs in the meantime......
I cant see that happening anytime soon so the only way to get back to a football that feels 'real' again is the formation of an AFC Arsenal type club i think
MK Gould wrote:We're all mugs in that the extra money coming into the game from the Sky tv contract......which WE indirectly fund......and which should have made it cheaper to actually attend a match in person......has merely had the effect of making clubs more attractive as investments than as football clubs.....and funded higher player wages.....leading to increased ticket prices.....and distancing of the fans from their club and players!
The best thing that could happen to football would be a total collapse in it's popularity and globalisation - football armaggedon.....leading to overseas owners offloading their investments, share price crash, the odd club truly going bust, cheaper tv subscriptions, cheaper ticket prices....and clubs being returned to people who truly only want to own them for are they are rather than as part of a financial portfolio.
I agree with the above but this will never happen so where do we go from here?
Sorry - added another comment by edit before you replied:
The funny thing is that I remember having this conversation with a spuds fans years ago, with me saying he was mad to have a season ticket and go to every away game because it just led to ever increasing prices. And what happens, we move to the Grove....I come to the top of the ST waiting list....and become just another football hamster on the f*cking wheel.....!
I don't think that Arsenal are much different to any other Premier League club, And just about every Championship club are just Premier League wannabees!
We just have to hang on in there and hope that the finanical meltdown comes sooner rather than later.....as it's difficult to see enough fans getting off the "wheel" to make much of an impact on the clubs in the meantime......
I cant see that happening anytime soon so the only way to get back to a football that feels 'real' again is the formation of an AFC Arsenal type club i think
But imagine the scenario where AFC Arsenal is such a huge success that it powers through the non-league pyramid, through the football league and so needs further investment to move up to the next level.......and, becomes much like Arsenal FC!
MK Gould wrote:But imagine the scenario where AFC Arsenal is such a huge success that it powers through the non-league pyramid, through the football league and so needs further investment to move up to the next level.......and, becomes much like Arsenal FC!
Yeah i imagine it could go the same way, definately could but if it is owned by fans all with equal ownership/voting rights you would feel more in charge of things rather than a bunch of tosspots who dont care about the fans at all
MK Gould wrote:But imagine the scenario where AFC Arsenal is such a huge success that it powers through the non-league pyramid, through the football league and so needs further investment to move up to the next level.......and, becomes much like Arsenal FC!
Yeah i imagine it could go the same way, definately could but if it is owned by fans all with equal ownership/voting rights you would feel more in charge of things rather than a bunch of tosspots who dont care about the fans at all
Arsenal has never exactly been a democratic owned by the fans sort of club. I'm not sure that Hill Wood cares any less about the fans than his dad and grandad before him. They all enjoyed the same privileges. He just got lucky that football became sexy on his watch......
We could never hope to achieve anything like control of a club like Arsenal via any share ownership scheme. The only hope is that it gives a little influence. Best hope is that it all goes TU and that there are enough of us around who remember what went wrong the first time round that we don't make the same mistakes again.
MK Gould wrote:But imagine the scenario where AFC Arsenal is such a huge success that it powers through the non-league pyramid, through the football league and so needs further investment to move up to the next level.......and, becomes much like Arsenal FC!
Yeah i imagine it could go the same way, definately could but if it is owned by fans all with equal ownership/voting rights you would feel more in charge of things rather than a bunch of tosspots who dont care about the fans at all
Arsenal has never exactly been a democratic owned by the fans sort of club. I'm not sure that Hill Wood cares any less about the fans than his dad and grandad before him. They all enjoyed the same privileges. He just got lucky that football became sexy on his watch......
We could never hope to achieve anything like control of a club like Arsenal via any share ownership scheme. The only hope is that it gives a little influence. Best hope is that it all goes TU and that there are enough of us around who remember what went wrong the first time round that we don't make the same mistakes again.
Sorry mate i was refering to an AFC Arsenal type club where we could all have equal shares amongst the fans and if it rose through the leagues and the ownership stayed the same you would feel more in charge than the modern day Arsenal FC
flash gunner wrote:Sorry mate i was refering to an AFC Arsenal type club where we could all have equal shares amongst the fans and if it rose through the leagues and the ownership stayed the same you would feel more in charge than the modern day Arsenal FC
I know what you mean but I was just meaning that modern day Arsenal isn't too much different to olden day Arsenal in that it's never been owned by "us". Only difference being that the owners maybe did have the best interests of the club in mind whereas today that comes second to money.
My god.....It's just occured to me that the onlinegooner would effectively be the board of AFC Arsenal and that the POLL's that are run could be used to make real decisions..... And maybe we could have Herd and DB10 discussing the finer points of the club during Board meetings.....?
MK Gould wrote:My god.....It's just occured to me that the onlinegooner would effectively be the board of AFC Arsenal and that the POLL's that are run could be used to make real decisions..... And maybe we could have Herd and DB10 discussing the finer points of the club during Board meetings.....?
I've been wondering what happens if FC United rose though the leagues in 10 years and ended up in the Prem. I suspect they would just pay low wages and entertaining football ala Blackpool which s great but it doesnt solve the fact that away teams would charge big money and players getting greedy.
Irish Gooner wrote:I've been wondering what happens if FC United rose though the leagues in 10 years and ended up in the Prem. I suspect they would just pay low wages and entertaining football ala Blackpool which s great but it doesnt solve the fact that away teams would charge big money and players getting greedy.
Aren't AFC Wimbledon in that position now? They were charging £2 for kids, but you can bet your life they won't get those prices for away games in League 2. And if they start moving up through the divisions then how long before they need to raise their own prices to help pay market rate wages.....
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