Myth or Legend

[MutleyGooner]

Cesc Fabregas should go down as one of the greatest ever talents to have played for The Arsenal. He deserves to be up there alongside the likes of Bergkamp, Henry, Brady and Pires. He's genuinely world class, and once he gets his move to Barca, his reputation worldwide will grow and grow. He will not be forgotten so easily.

As for legend status.... no, but that's not because of his talent, contribution or effort.

For me, a legend has to have a certain amount of the right ingredients...

1. loyalty and longevity (Adams, Seaman, Bob Wilson (player and coach), Bergkamp, George, etc)
2. cult hero status (Bergkamp, Brady, George, Wright, Adams, etc.)
3. Ability (Bergkamp, Brady, Pires, Henry, Cesc, etc)
4. Memorable goals/moments (Wright, George, Thomas, Brady, Sunderland, etc)
5. Iconic teams ('79, '89, invincibles.... sadly, NOT the "Wenger Youth Project" era )
6. Trophies

For me, Cesc just doesn't tick enough boxes yet, and if he leaves he never will

Cheers for typing that post, saved me from saying it Cesc is without doubt a world class player, unfortunately we are not a world class club

[Number 5]

Cesc Fabregas should go down as one of the greatest ever talents to have played for The Arsenal. He deserves to be up there alongside the likes of Bergkamp, Henry, Brady and Pires. He's genuinely world class, and once he gets his move to Barca, his reputation worldwide will grow and grow. He will not be forgotten so easily.

As for legend status.... no, but that's not because of his talent, contribution or effort.

For me, a legend has to have a certain amount of the right ingredients...

1. loyalty and longevity (Adams, Seaman, Bob Wilson (player and coach), Bergkamp, George, etc)
2. cult hero status (Bergkamp, Brady, George, Wright, Adams, etc.)
3. Ability (Bergkamp, Brady, Pires, Henry, Cesc, etc)
4. Memorable goals/moments (Wright, George, Thomas, Brady, Sunderland, etc)
5. Iconic teams ('79, '89, invincibles.... sadly, NOT the "Wenger Youth Project" era )
6. Trophies

For me, Cesc just doesn't tick enough boxes yet, and if he leaves he never will

Cheers for typing that post, saved me from saying it Cesc is without doubt a world class player, unfortunately we are not a world class club

Wait what, just want to clear this up. You agree with G88ner that Fabregas is not a legend?

You can be a world class player in your time. It could be debated well an long into the future that many Arsenal legends were not world class.

But I have a couple of points to shit out.

1. Wright. Slammed in a transfer request cos he didn't get on with Rioch. Was it for real or to assert his prescence? Either way not legendary.

2. Adams, admitted in his book at the time Graham got sacked he was heavily contemplating a move up to Manchester to win all the trophies. Not legendary.

Arsenal fans should be looking at Fabregas as one of our own. One of the very best. If he moves now and achieves as much he should I'll be following his career very closely. You'd be a fool not to. He's been here and heavily involved in the first team since 16 yes?

He's 22/23 now? That on its own is 6/7 years. Equal enough to Wright, Thomas, Rocastle, Pires and on. And on.

Man's having a tough time.

Imagine when Wilshere needs to fuck off in like 2 or 3 years. Best get ready to linch that mother fucker.

Last point was a general observation, not aimed at G88ner or Mutters specifically.

Pow.

[Sutch]

Cesc has been here eight years, he broke into the first team when I started high school. Legend, he's won the same amount as Brady did with us, who also left because the board and manager showed no ambition. I still hold onto the hope that AW will actually do something proper this summer for once and it will convince Cesc to stay. Seeing him in a barca shirt would kill me.

EDIT - Imagine in say, twenty years time, Jeff Stelling will be presenting the NLD and he'll be like "Joining me today is Arsenal legend Cesc Fabregas" and he'll be there with the same clothing style he wore onto the pitch vs Hull after we put the *word censored* out.

[MEDINABOY]

number 5,you can't be taken seriously my friend,simply because in the last twenty years or so there has been many who could be held up for legendary status but few who actually achieve it .but any sensible AFC fan will tell you that tony adams would walk into any AFC side of any era and further more his loyalty is unimpeachable.DID HE LEAVE,NO.COULD HE HAVE LEFT,EASILY AT ANYTIME. your point is ill founded and full of holes.

[Ted B]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTBk5TsFCzk

[StuartL]

The best player we have had in the last 5 seasons, carrying this bunch of useless no-hopers with little help, season in season out, sees Hleb, Adebayor, among others jump ship.

Watches in disbelief as we sign mediocre journeymen and people wonder why he may be tempted to go back to his boyhood club - who just happen to be European champions and most likely to win it year in year out for the rest of this decade.

This young man has vision, and an ability to pass a football that most can only dream about - anyone who can score a goal v the tiny totts 6 seconds after they kick off is a legend, and to take a penalty despite having a broken leg adds to his status.

He took shitloads of abuse from scum like Phil Brown for doing nothing more than walking onto the pitch at the end of a game to congratulate his teammates and doesn't deserve the treatment some of his own "fans" are giving him.

He owes us nothing, he has given us plenty and not really had much given back in return.

[Eboue-Why?]

Yeah it's the wrong question really. He will never be a myth but 'legend' is a very strong label and if we consider all of the previously mentioned legends in this thread then perhaps he can't be placed in the same category.

But, can you imagine Fabregas playing pretty triangles with Dennis, Pires and Thierry? Had they been here for the last 4 years then I think by itself it would have elevated Cesc into the Legend category because we would have won silverware.

A truly world class player who was always destined to go back home, we all know that, but had Wenger managed the team like he said he would in terms of competing with the best, then I suspect Cesc may have stayed here another 2/3 years before ending his career back home.

[frankbutcher]

Cesc is a World class player, but not a legend.

[Bring Back Pires]

Many will obviously disagree, but I always thought that Fabregas was highly overrated.

Firstly, I didn't want him in the team. He was brought in to replace Vieira, but it wasn't a natural fit. Vieira was a powerful defensive midfielder, Fabregas was a creative attacking midfielder. Vieira was never properly replaced, and I couldn't treat the 17-year old Fabregas as his replacement.

That said, he played well alongside Henry, Bergkamp, Pires and co. in the final season at Highbury. Then, they all left, and the team was built around him - earlier than he was ready for, in my view.

Again, I consider him to be a very good player - but not world class. In the past couple of seasons, his passing has been woeful, and his passion can go missing when you need it most. He's not much of a captain.

He's not an Arsenal legend. He won nothing, and spent most of his time trying to negotiate a move out of the club.

Next.

[Rosie_titters]

i just keep finding it more and more fucking annoying how all our players seem to leave the club and it leaves a nasty taste in the mouth

i remember the day when a player would leave and you would say thanks for the memories mate, and would wish them well. but in recent years we have had

Cashley, Hleb, Flamini, Greedybayor and now it seems Cesc and Nasri - it would be very difficult to appluad Cesc or Nasri if they came back playing for another team

[Gunnersaurus]

The best player we have had in the last 5 seasons, carrying this bunch of useless no-hopers with little help, season in season out, sees Hleb, Adebayor, among others jump ship.

Watches in disbelief as we sign mediocre journeymen and people wonder why he may be tempted to go back to his boyhood club - who just happen to be European champions and most likely to win it year in year out for the rest of this decade.

This young man has vision, and an ability to pass a football that most can only dream about - anyone who can score a goal v the tiny totts 6 seconds after they kick off is a legend, and to take a penalty despite having a broken leg adds to his status.

He took shitloads of abuse from scum like Phil Brown for doing nothing more than walking onto the pitch at the end of a game to congratulate his teammates and doesn't deserve the treatment some of his own "fans" are giving him.

He owes us nothing, he has given us plenty and not really had much given back in return.

Apart from 90-110k a week.

[MK Gould]

I think we only ever had him on loan. Like we developed him and now he's going back. Only difference is that Barca should pay dear......

Wasn't around long enough and hasn't yet reached his peak, so not a legend.....

[Number 5]

number 5,you can't be taken seriously my friend,simply because in the last twenty years or so there has been many who could be held up for legendary status but few who actually achieve it .but any sensible AFC fan will tell you that tony adams would walk into any AFC side of any era and further more his loyalty is unimpeachable.DID HE LEAVE,NO.COULD HE HAVE LEFT,EASILY AT ANYTIME. your point is ill founded and full of holes.

Shit did it sound like I was saying that Tony Adams is not an Arsenal legend?

My bad, I'll clear that up.

More trying to say that even as an Arsenal legend he still had his moments which were not legendary. Put that scenario in the year 2011 with all the agents, middle men and could you imagine the fall out from a situation like that? It would be epic.

Adams also admitted in his book that he just used to sign the contract Arsenal put in front of him in the early years, he didn't even negotiate. I'd say Arsenal fucked him over for a good while until he realised his true value and started to demand it.

Imagine Cesc 4 years ago and Wenger says that he'll be building a team around him. He looks at Wenger as the guy who brought in Pires, Henry Vieira etc and thinks shit yeah I'll have some of that.

Here we are today and Fabregas has not so much had a team built around him but he's slowly being walled in. So he needs to get out before that final brick is laid and cuts him off forever.

Fucked over by Arsenal and as a man whose connection will always be to Barcelona he's realised his value, realised he don't belong in the mediocrity the we have become.

[QuartzGooner]

Agree with G88ner's good post.

Cesc does have a little something of the cult hero about him.

Threw pizza at Ferguson.
Spit spat with Phil Brown.
Penalty scored with a broken leg.

I would equate him with Brady:

Both best players in not so great teams.
Both only won one trophy with us.
Left in search of better football and realistic chance of silverware.

[MEDINABOY]

occasionally there comes a time when for the wellbeing of the club as a whole you have to bin a good player there can be many reasons for this and this is a prime example.fabregas is holding the development of the team back.imo if he were to go the silly money would strenghen (if the dozy prick spends it)areas in the team that need it,clear what appears to be a stagnant dressing room of a "superstar",make room for a fitter man to run the show and give us more options with ramsey and wilshire.and on top of all that it'll be an end to the soap opera shit that has destabilised the club for the last 3-4 years.and finally not that wenger will take the oportunity he could show that no player is bigger than AFC.