Ricardo Alvarez has ‘signed for Arsenal?????

[Its Up 4 Grabs Now]

Its clear Robin would thrive better behind another man and having him as the main man doesnt work.

how does it not? the man scores over a goal per game! i disagree, i think RvP is perfect for any position as a striker, be it with a partner ahead of him, behind him (steady, kingjayson!) or even on his own. he will score goals anyhow.

our problems are on the wings and on the defence (including holding midfielder) imo.

Not disputing Robin's goal return but I don't think having him as target man benefits the team as a whole. Often he falls back into that hole, gets the ball and there's no one to run onto his pass. Despite his amazing record in the second half of season, our goals as a whole dried up. Despite his touch, his vision and heart, he plays naturally with his back to goal, slows down play and it's not effective in a counter attacking move with him in that position. I think arsenal were pondering and slower than ever this season just gone.

I agree, great scoring record but not an ideal centre forward for the reasons you explain.

He will score goals where ever he plays but we do miss out when he leads the line but is forever dropping deep.

I agree with most of what you & BT say, but personally I think it could work if the wide players in the (allegedly) "front 3" had the pace & the willingness to support him properly.

When Bergkamp used to drop deep & Henry pulled out left at the same time, Vieira would run beyond the strikers, Bobby would end up in the six yard box at the near post & Freddie would come in off the right & make a run between the lines into the box.

These days when Robin drops deep, Cesc doesn't run beyond him enough & the wide men (Nasri sometimes aside) play hide & seek on the touchline. Hence we end up with a flat front 4 going sideways. Our back 4 wouldn’t know what a straight line felt like if they bummed each other with rulers, but going forward where we should be creating angles we're as flat as the old GG offside trap. Our off the ball movement really is shocking, we're about as fluid these days as a Boxing Day shit.

If RVP drops deep (drawing a CB out with him) & lays the ball off to Cesc then Nasri/Walcott/Arshavin should be looking to make those diagonal runs in behind the defence for the through-ball. If we're attacking down the left Walcott should be busting a gut on the other side to get in the box etc. As much as I'd like to see 4-4-2 again, fixing those issues would possibly do as much to solve things as a change of formation or dropping RVP for another striker.

[Its Up 4 Grabs Now]

Jesus! Why write the kid off before he's even signed?!

You moan when he doesn't buy, then you moan when he does buy! Yes, he may not be what we need but have some bloody patience!

Harold Shipman? Is that you?

[marcengels]

Real fans have patience

Real fans are patients

[brazilianGOONER]

Its clear Robin would thrive better behind another man and having him as the main man doesnt work.

how does it not? the man scores over a goal per game! i disagree, i think RvP is perfect for any position as a striker, be it with a partner ahead of him, behind him (steady, kingjayson!) or even on his own. he will score goals anyhow.

our problems are on the wings and on the defence (including holding midfielder) imo.

Not disputing Robin's goal return but I don't think having him as target man benefits the team as a whole. Often he falls back into that hole, gets the ball and there's no one to run onto his pass. Despite his amazing record in the second half of season, our goals as a whole dried up. Despite his touch, his vision and heart, he plays naturally with his back to goal, slows down play and it's not effective in a counter attacking move with him in that position. I think arsenal were pondering and slower than ever this season just gone.

I agree, great scoring record but not an ideal centre forward for the reasons you explain.

He will score goals where ever he plays but we do miss out when he leads the line but is forever dropping deep.

I agree with most of what you & BT say, but personally I think it could work if the wide players in the (allegedly) "front 3" had the pace & the willingness to support him properly.

When Bergkamp used to drop deep & Henry pulled out left at the same time, Vieira would run beyond the strikers, Bobby would end up in the six yard box at the near post & Freddie would come in off the right & make a run between the lines into the box.

These days when Robin drops deep, Cesc doesn't run beyond him enough & the wide men (Nasri sometimes aside) play hide & seek on the touchline. Hence we end up with a flat front 4 going sideways. Our back 4 wouldn’t know what a straight line felt like if they bummed each other with rulers, but going forward where we should be creating angles we're as flat as the old GG offside trap. Our off the ball movement really is shocking, we're about as fluid these days as a Boxing Day shit.

If RVP drops deep (drawing a CB out with him) & lays the ball off to Cesc then Nasri/Walcott/Arshavin should be looking to make those diagonal runs in behind the defence for the through-ball. If we're attacking down the left Walcott should be busting a gut on the other side to get in the box etc. As much as I'd like to see 4-4-2 again, fixing those issues would possibly do as much to solve things as a change of formation or dropping RVP for another striker.

good post mate, can't disagree

[QuartzGooner]

Its clear Robin would thrive better behind another man and having him as the main man doesnt work.

Just to add a little to good posts by IU4GN and BrazilianGooner, I think Van Persie was a problem when he played the Bergkamp role.

He has excellent technical skill, but in a strange way it worked against us as a team.
He took too many touches, too many twists and turns on the ball.
This would slow down a move as he looked to place the right pass, to team mates who too seldom ran into the box.

As a player, one of his great assets is the ability to shoot quickly, with little or no backlift.
Now he is used as the main striker, he is banging in the goals.
As Myles Palmer calls him, "Robin BANG Persie".

[brazilianGOONER]

Its clear Robin would thrive better behind another man and having him as the main man doesnt work.

Just to add a little to good posts by IU4GN and BrazilianGooner, I think Van Persie was a problem when he played the Bergkamp role.

He has excellent technical skill, but in a strange way it worked against us as a team.
He took too many touches, too many twists and turns on the ball.
This would slow down a move as he looked to place the right pass, to team mates who too seldom ran into the box.

As a player, one of his great assets is the ability to shoot quickly, with little or no backlift.
Now he is used as the main striker, he is banging in the goals.
As Myles Palmer calls him, "Robin BANG Persie".

yep. and i think a switch to 2 strikers with a guy in the mould of kaka (who real madrid are allegedly trying to sell) or even arshavin in his top form behind van persie would prove to be lethal

ah, if we were an ambitious club

[Barriecuda]

Its clear Robin would thrive better behind another man and having him as the main man doesnt work.

Just to add a little to good posts by IU4GN and BrazilianGooner, I think Van Persie was a problem when he played the Bergkamp role.

He has excellent technical skill, but in a strange way it worked against us as a team.
He took too many touches, too many twists and turns on the ball.
This would slow down a move as he looked to place the right pass, to team mates who too seldom ran into the box.

As a player, one of his great assets is the ability to shoot quickly, with little or no backlift.
Now he is used as the main striker, he is banging in the goals.
As Myles Palmer calls him, "Robin BANG Persie".

yep. and i think a switch to 2 strikers with a guy in the mould of kaka (who real madrid are allegedly trying to sell) or even arshavin in his top form behind van persie would prove to be lethal

ah, if we were an ambitious club

As in a trequartista like Sneijder at Inter? I'd love to see that setup too, especially with the creativity of Nasri or Arshavin in that spot.

Kaka would be absolutely f'cking brilliant at Arsenal in any position.

[brazilianGOONER]

Its clear Robin would thrive better behind another man and having him as the main man doesnt work.

Just to add a little to good posts by IU4GN and BrazilianGooner, I think Van Persie was a problem when he played the Bergkamp role.

He has excellent technical skill, but in a strange way it worked against us as a team.
He took too many touches, too many twists and turns on the ball.
This would slow down a move as he looked to place the right pass, to team mates who too seldom ran into the box.

As a player, one of his great assets is the ability to shoot quickly, with little or no backlift.
Now he is used as the main striker, he is banging in the goals.
As Myles Palmer calls him, "Robin BANG Persie".

yep. and i think a switch to 2 strikers with a guy in the mould of kaka (who real madrid are allegedly trying to sell) or even arshavin in his top form behind van persie would prove to be lethal

ah, if we were an ambitious club

As in a trequartista like Sneijder at Inter? I'd love to see that setup too, especially with the creativity of Nasri or Arshavin in that spot.

Kaka would be absolutely f'cking brilliant at Arsenal in any position.

yep. actually i'd love us to spend some money on a time machine to bring the 97/98 bergkamp back to play behind RvP. now that would be sweet

but our tight fisted board and manager would never spend the fucking money

[QuartzGooner]

We do have some second strikers on our books...

Arshavin, Ramsey, Chamakh.

Cesc (if he stays) is as close to playing that role as our current formation allows.

And I think Wilshere could play the role in a bit of time, plus Gervinho if he signs.

Nasri possibly but I prefer him cutting in from wide.

[Barriecuda]

Its clear Robin would thrive better behind another man and having him as the main man doesnt work.

Just to add a little to good posts by IU4GN and BrazilianGooner, I think Van Persie was a problem when he played the Bergkamp role.

He has excellent technical skill, but in a strange way it worked against us as a team.
He took too many touches, too many twists and turns on the ball.
This would slow down a move as he looked to place the right pass, to team mates who too seldom ran into the box.

As a player, one of his great assets is the ability to shoot quickly, with little or no backlift.
Now he is used as the main striker, he is banging in the goals.
As Myles Palmer calls him, "Robin BANG Persie".

yep. and i think a switch to 2 strikers with a guy in the mould of kaka (who real madrid are allegedly trying to sell) or even arshavin in his top form behind van persie would prove to be lethal

ah, if we were an ambitious club

As in a trequartista like Sneijder at Inter? I'd love to see that setup too, especially with the creativity of Nasri or Arshavin in that spot.

Kaka would be absolutely f'cking brilliant at Arsenal in any position.

yep. actually i'd love us to spend some money on a time machine to bring the 97/98 bergkamp back to play behind RvP. now that would be sweet

but our tight fisted board and manager would never spend the fucking money

This may be overly high praise, but RVP has always been the spirtual successor to DB in my books. Not as magical obviously, but a great two footed player with a smart mind for the game. I think as SS he'd be able to poach goals like he has been, but also open up the defenses to set up a proper CF.

In response to Quartz,

Arshavin as SS yes; Ramsey no, Chamakh no, Wilshere no, IMO.

Ramsey is a central mid, same with Wilshere. They're not dynamic enough for a SS role. Chamakh is a finisher with a strong header, but never sly enough for a second striker role. That's how I see it. Nasri or Cesc, in that order, maybe... but still not quite it.

[northbankbren]

Another thread, for another player.

Who we wont buy.

[QuartzGooner]

BarrieCuda

Just cannot agree with talk of RvP as a "Second Striker".

He was not nearly as useful to use in that position as he has been when played as main striker.

He is a very different player to Bergkamp.

[Barriecuda]

BarrieCuda

Just cannot agree with talk of RvP as a "Second Striker".

He was not nearly as useful to use in that position as he has been when played as main striker.

He is a very different player to Bergkamp.

I think he's matured a lot since he was last playing in that role and is more confident than ever. I'm sure a lot of people argued he'd be useless as a CF too, but that turned out.

I'm not suggesting throwing him back into SS, but I do think he's far more suited to it than Ramsey, Wilsh, Cesc...

[Gunnersaurus]

We do have some second strikers on our books...

Arshavin, Ramsey, Chamakh.

Cesc (if he stays) is as close to playing that role as our current formation allows.

And I think Wilshere could play the role in a bit of time, plus Gervinho if he signs.

Nasri possibly but I prefer him cutting in from wide.

Since when were Chamakh and Ramsey second strikers?

[QuartzGooner]

Since when were Ramsey and Chamakh second strikers?

Since last season.

Ramsey played there end of season when Cesc was out.
He played the advance midfield role in our midfield diamond (of sorts) which was really a fluid 4-2-3-1/4-1-4-1.

Same as Cesc, the closest to a second striker position that the formation allowed.

Ramsey is fast over short distances and powerful, and has a very eye for a through ball and for running into the box for a quick one-two and shot on goal.

It makes him suited to playing behind a striker, deeper than Bergkamp would, but a classic Number 10 position nonetheless.

Chamakh is that too, though in a different style.

His main feature is a quick flick on, whether by foot or head.
He rarely takes more than one touch when near the opposition's penalty area.

His game is also very much about dropping deep, drawing central defenders out of position, then making the pass to the main striker who scores.
In this mode he holds the ball up longer.

More on that here:

http://arsespeak.com/2010/07/14/maroune ... -scouting/

As for Wilshere, he is well suited to the deep midfield role he currently plays.
But if we have an injury problem then he can play the position Cesc has played this season, as he did to good effect early on last season in Europe.