Keown suggest Arsene go back to 4-4-1-1

[brazilianGOONER]

good post mate, but if you look at arsenal's squad right now no system would create a good team. we need signings anyway.

the problem is that this 4-5-1 or 4-3-3 we play simply does not work defensively so we do need a 4 man midfield in front of the defence imo.

You might be right- personally though I'd see a 3 man central midfield, even with the wingers being pressed quite high up the pitch, as more defensively solid than a flat 4 in the middle. Regardless of what position he's in, if Walcott is on the right, you wont generally get much defensive covering from him (although he did well to cover for the right back at one point on Sunday). He tends to burst forwards and be out of position, leading to only having one central player to get across to cover for him, which then leaves the middle wide open if the central player is dragged across to counter the threat from the left back and left winger.

If you have 3 central midfielders then Theo can take a high position and if he doesnt get back, one central midfielder could move across to prevent the left back/ left winger for the opposition getting too much space to operate and you can still have two central players to stop them getting at you through the middle. With your current players I would say a 4-5-1 with Song, Wilshere and Frimpong is your best bet- Wilshere can break forwards and offer support to RVP (effectively making a 4-4-1-1 at times), other times Walcott can drift in from the right to support RVP and at all times you still have a relatively solid base in midfield with Song and Frimpong, altough ideally you'd sign someone like Tiote.

A 4 man midfield is only defensively sound when both wingers are conservative and dont leave their full back exposed, unfortunately I dont think the Arsenal wide players can be relied upon to do this. Just a personal opinion though, might be wrong, but if I was Wenger I'd stick to having 3 central players

You're definitely spot on about the fact that whatever system is used, it wont be successful enough to keep the fans happy with your current crop of players. Definitely need to bring 3 players in but obviously its a case of whether you trust Wenger to bring 3 in, and if he does whether he can be trusted to get the right 3.

the problem with what you suggest (a midfield trio of song, wilshere and frimpong) would leave us with only 3 offensive minded players, and good as those may be we'll be lacking quality through the middle. wilshere is not that good yet to provide constant threat throught the middle, just look at his goalscoring record.

if we're supposed to be an offensive team who supposedly fights for the title we need at least four players capable of creating goalscoring opportunities in the team and you can only do that if you have a guy like cesc as one of the three-man-midfield.

to be honest, what i would like to see is a change, whatever it is. we seem to carry this 4-5-1 for seasons to no consistent result, and we don't seem to give a serious try to any other attempt to play the game then the same obvious tactic that every single manager in the premier league knows how to defend against

[QuartzGooner]

I think that the players should be coached to play two or three different formations, using whichever one is best for the players we have available for any given fixture, and the type of team we are going to play.

Two up front is something that should be practiced in training, as it can be used any game where we are chasing a lead, and sometimes from the start.

I just really am not keen on Van Persie as a number 10 "Second Striker".
He is not usually very good when played in that role, and slows down moves.
But when he is the main striker with a focus on getting goals, he has a very good goals to games ratio.
His good goal runs last season and the season before that were when he was finally used as the main goal getter and focal point of our attacks.

To answer BrazilianGooner's point, I actually can see a growing possibility for a deep lying midfield pair of Frimpong and Wilshere.

With Ramsey in a spell of poor form, we could use Song further forward in the middle, with Walcott and Gervinho either side of him and RvP up front.

Song is tracking back far less these days as he becomes an all round midfielder rather than strictly a defensive one, and his physical power in bearing down on goal can provide an interesting addition to Walcott's pace and Gervinho's trickery.

[brazilianGOONER]

maybe even playing arshavin behind van persie could work.

at the least the lazy *word censored* would be excused to be a bit lazy

[Red Gunner]

I think that the players should be coached to play two or three different formations, using whichever one is best for the players we have available for any given fixture, and the type of team we are going to play.

Barcelona played with only one recognised defender today and they won 5-0. Maybe we could learn something from them. Or just save time and get Guardiola over here

[Bergkamp-Genius]

We can't play 4-4-2 for the same reason as we couldn't play it when Cesc was here, we don't have the strength in the middle of the park...It's doable if you have a player like Yaya toure in there but we certainly don't have that kind of player..
Since we obliterated our quality Dcm stocks at the end of 2008 we have had no choice but to put numbers in the middle to make up for lack of strength/ lack of quality...
I dread to think how over run we would be through the middle, if we went with just Song and Wilshere or Song and Ramsey or Ramsey and Wilshere, we would be in serious trouble...Any of the quality teams would just overpower us with their two best cm and any manager worth his salt from the lesser teams would just go 4-5-1 and overwhelm us...

With the personnel we have 4-3-3 or 4-5-1 are really the most sensible and suitable options for us and as bad as we have looked recently with those formations i'm sure it would be far worse if we were even more open through the middle..

[1989]

you are kidding that you want frimpong to be a first choice midfielder this season right?

He's better than Ramsey, Song and Diaby and has a great understanding with Jack so why not. We won't sign a new CM.

i understand that, but can you really tell that by watching an hour of his football? i mean, we don't know if this lad will produce the good consistently mate, he is still a youngster.

i don't like the idea of having two very inexperienced centremidfielders as first choice in the team...

It's not ideal, but if the two inexperienced CM's are better than anything else you have in midfield what else can you do? Jack and Frimpong have a telepathic understanding as they've played together since they were 9.

yeah i remember hearing the same about bendtner and lupoli i think?

[Percy Dalton]

Gervinho --- Frimpong --- Wilshere --- New Signing
----------------- RvP ---------Walcott -----------------

you are kidding that you want frimpong to be a first choice midfielder this season right?

He's better than Ramsey, Song and Diaby and has a great understanding with Jack so why not. We won't sign a new CM.

You know all this from watching Frimpong how many times?

[flash gunner]

Gervinho --- Frimpong --- Wilshere --- New Signing
----------------- RvP ---------Walcott -----------------

you are kidding that you want frimpong to be a first choice midfielder this season right?

He's better than Ramsey, Song and Diaby and has a great understanding with Jack so why not. We won't sign a new CM.

You know all this from watching Frimpong how many times?

He's our saviour

[Babatunde]

Keown is a club legend but tbh, I'm getting pretty fucking sick of he, Dixon and Winterburn acting like such pussies. They ramble all this criticism of the team and in the end, they always conclude by saying 'but Arsene is the best man for the job'. Too scared to speak up.
This team could play with an extra two men every game and they'd still be shit.
I laughed so hard when I heard that at the start of the 2009/10 season, that AW was going to go with a 4-3-3 'revolution' and had started to teach 4-3-3 throughout the academy etc. What an absoulte farce and lame attempt to copy Barca. No identity.

You can change all the formations any way you want but it's like putting lipstick on a pig. A few problems with any formations you care to tinker.

1. Arsenal do not have any quality width.
Arsenal do not have a single wide attacking player of quality. Been saying this for years but when was the last time you saw an Arsenal wide attacker actually pick up the ball, run at his opposing full-back as (Nani did to Traore), and cut it back? It doesn't happen.
Add to that a pair of full-backs who add absolutely nothing in the attacking third (hardly Alves and Coentrao is it?) and it's just bollocks.

2. Arsenal do not, and have not, had a top quality number 9 for about 4 years. It's an absolute joke that a club like Arsenal do not have a number 9. There is no one who is a focal point in attack. I keep hearing Walcott touted as the saviour, and though his pace would help, a number 9 needs to know how to maken diagonal runs, when to hold the ball up, when to play first touch, when to spin his marker and when to gamble near-post and far-post. Walcott can barely control a ball at speed, so how the hell do you expect him to do this? Arsenal are sorely lacking a Karim Benzema type focal point in attack.
Hence ANY formation you wish to spell out and it is still going to be shit, because the personnel just isn't there. Bendtner can hold it up but can't run. Walcott can run but can't use his brain or hold it up. Chamakh can't tie his fucking shoelaces. Fancy that a striker on £80k a week and when his team are desperately chasing goals this c*** just gets splinters in his arse.

3. No matter what formation Arsenal play, it will be a failure because of the lack of presence in central defensive midfield. Wilshere is quality but he should not have to defend, it is a joke.
Watch Cesc Fabregas at Barca now and he is a perfect example of what quality players can do when they are safe i the knowledge that they trust their team-mates, and can just get on with their jobs. Fabregas doesn't have to worry about a fuckwit like Alex Song bombing forward, being out of position and leaving the team exposed - so now Cesc just gets forward when he can, two great goals in his last two appearances. Everyone at Barca knows their job and Cesc doesn't have to concern himself with defending. Looking at Nasri at Shite Lane the other day said much the same - do you think it's a coincidence that it took him 90 minutes to double - nay triple, his assist tally for Arsenal last season???
Nasri was playing next to proper players, hence he could concentrate on attacking where he pleased, roaming from left to right and not worrying about whether the idiot behind him could make a tackle. He's got Yaya, not Alex Song.

Song is a c**t. Positionally clueless, weak in the tackle, slow to turn, puts the team under unnecessary pressure with cheap fouls, sloppy short passer. He's a big fat joke.

4. Defensive coaching. Simply put, you can get Wenger to play ANY formation but without basic tactical organization, it won't ever succeed. I've seen kids with Fisher-Price chalkboards who know more about tactical preparation that Wenger. It is a joke tbh. Someone on this website mentioned a great point the other day: how many times have you seen Wenger at a match studying the opposition? Answer: never. This arrogant sod thinks his way of playing will be enough to beat any team.
It's also good enough to lose EIGHT-TWO!!!

Oh and without a new manager, play any formation you like, it just ain't gonna happen.

[augie]

The system should be dictated by what players are available rather than picking the bsystem and then playing players in a system that doesnt really suit them as wenger has continued to do

4-4-2 can only work for me if we have a de jong (not yaya) type of player in the team - in any successful team you need a defensive ball winner in the middle of the park to break up opposition attacks and be the formation on which our attacks are launched and de jong is nowhere fcuking near good enough for that role. Fans say that the current system was put in place purely to maximise cesc's talents and while I can admit that has been a large factor in using the system, I also believe the ineptitude of song is also a big factor Playing wilshire alongside a PV4/de jong/rossi type of player but that would require buying a player to do that job and cannot see wenger doing that although parker could do that job to a point

Of course the lack of proper wingers is also a huge obstacle in the use of 4-4-2 but saying all that I hare the current 4-5-1 formation and would love to see wenger impliment 4-4-2 ot 4-4-1-1

[HashKads]

So you guys agree that without Fab ,the current system is not needed, or you guys never liked it in the first place.

Is your Avatar one of Sami's limited edtion crayola prints?

[Boomer]

The 4-3-3 leaves the wingers fastly exposed.

If a full back goes wondering up field the defensive holding midfielder should be going across to cover but this simply doesn't happen.
Not to mention leaving our full backs 1-on-1. We can't double up as we're too stretched.

I also don't like leaving RVP upfront alone. He's suprised me in games but he just can't hold the ball up. Adebayor was (sadly) excellent at this. Strong and quick.

RVP should be a '2nd striker' that sits behind someone like Theo. RVP could even sit in the hole left by Cesc. So playing 4-4-2 would mean the fullbacks have cover.
Sadly we don't have any wingers except for maybe Gervhino. All the others are attacking midfielders.

Also Wenger used to balance the team. On one side you'd have Overmars, who'd have flair and pace but wasn't defensively minded. So to compensate we had Parlour.
Similarly we then had Pires and Ljungberg respectively.

I always saw Ramsey in this role before the formation changed. Maybe Rosicky but then your really showing the weakness.

[cusamano]

In this article linked below, what do you guys think ?

First of all I think it would be nice to
a) have 11 men with balls on the pitch
b) have a manager and a team who know tactics at all
c) have 11 men on the pitch who do not surrender when we are 1-0 down

If this is given I am fine with 4-3-3 or 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1.

[I Hate Hleb]

In this article linked below, what do you guys think ?

First of all I think it would be nice to
a) have 11 men with balls on the pitch
b) have a manager and a team who know tactics at all
c) have 11 men on the pitch who do not surrender when we are 1-0 down

If this is given I am fine with 4-3-3 or 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1.

Spot on!!